Wolf Guard '79 Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 If I take a squad of grey hunters with a wolf guard leader and give the WGL MotW can I leave the grey hunters out of the vehicle at the start of a battle and just place the WGL in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 A model with the Mark cannot join a unit and thus cannot lead it as its packleader. Though you could take a rhino for the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard '79 Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 Okay, but if I take a rhino for a squad of grey hunters can I leave them out of the vehicle and board the rhino right away with the WG MotW. In this case the WG would have to start outside of the vehicle in the battle correct and board it on turn one or can he be in the vehicle at the start of the battle instead of the grey hunters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thylacine Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 I thought a previous FAQ allowed him to join a unit for transport purposes only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 If you take a Rhino for the GH squad then no one but that squad may ride in it. It is a dedicated transport for that squad only. I read it as, since he is a IC that can not join a squad at the beginning of the battle he is not able to commandeir the GH's rhino, it does not say he can or can not take his own transport, so I am not sure where spacefrisian is getting this ruleling. If he is able to take a transport then you can start him in or out of the transport at the beginning of battle. If you start him out the the transport on turn 1, you can choose to board the transport or not just like a normal squad. Of course taking a razorback would be a better choice. and a very cool conversion, I can see the back of the razorback being converted into a cage with bars, like the ol' circus wagon's showing off their animals. wicked. Vrox over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Well the new rules state that you can take a transport for a squad and that squad must be with the transport at deployment but afterwards any unit can use the transport which means he has to be 2"+ away from transport and/or GHs and during his movement phase he can jump in the transport and use it for his own....unless I am mistaken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard '79 Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 Thanks for the input Vrox, I read though in 5th edition rules rhinos can now be taxi's which is why I asked my original question. Also rereading about wolf guard the MotW does not make the character independent until after he has been bought for a squad as a leader. Therefore I believe he would have to board the rhino after the grey hunters disembark first then wait till turn two to move. Although someone just stated to me to have the WG follow the rhino while running and use it for cover(could be useful). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 If you take a Rhino for the GH squad then no one but that squad may ride in it. It is a dedicated transport for that squad only. I read it as, since he is a IC that can not join a squad at the beginning of the battle he is not able to commandeir the GH's rhino, it does not say he can or can not take his own transport, so I am not sure where spacefrisian is getting this ruleling. If he is able to take a transport then you can start him in or out of the transport at the beginning of battle. If you start him out the the transport on turn 1, you can choose to board the transport or not just like a normal squad. Of course taking a razorback would be a better choice. and a very cool conversion, I can see the back of the razorback being converted into a cage with bars, like the ol' circus wagon's showing off their animals. wicked. Vrox over. Actually, the dedicated transport is going out the window with 5th ed space marines. Now all transports on the table can function as taxis all they want. SO, if the rhino was purchaced for the squad and they dont deploy in it, the rhino can be used to ferry around any other unit they want that can ride in it (ie, no termies). Now, that being said, no where does it say that he cannot hop in a transport (just no bikes, jump packs or TDA). So, unless Wolf89 hops in here and overrides me as he is the resident expert on MotW, I would go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard '79 Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 I was hoping for a tank shock effect then unloading the MotW on the squad next turn. Just an idea to try. Thanks for the input everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Well since I was asked so nicely :D , I'll provide a little insight to this topic. Some of your parts are right, just not all of them. You would have to start the game with the MotW model outside the rhino, with no troops inside the rhino " when it (referring to the dedicated transport) is deployed it can only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any independent characters). After the game begins, it can then transport any friendly infantry unit, subject to transport capacity and other special exclusions..." So what you'd do is deploy the MotW model outside, then embark him inside the rhino your first turn. Since your rhino didn't move, you could then move the rhino normally almost as if the MotW model was in there from the beginning. So in essence, yes, tank shock, disembark behind the rhino, charge next turn. ;) Just remember he (MotW model) can't deploy in the rhino, he has to deploy outside the rhino, so if you loose first turn he's subject to getting shot at, so hide him well! :tu: Also note, that if by chance the rhino explodes or is wrecked the MotW model won't have to take a pinning test like a normal unit in this situation would. Since he's assumed to automatically pass any moral and pinning tests. I've played around with this idea, but haven't executed it yet to it's full potential. I suggest Storm Shield and either a lightning claw or a power weapon. another good option is to give him a wolf pelt for sure, since you'll be extremely close to the enemy after embarking, if they're really that dumb to assault you then you get that extra attack. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Well since I was asked so nicely :blush: , I'll provide a little insight to this topic. Some of your parts are right, just not all of them. LOL, I didnt mean anything bad by it. You have a larger knowledge as to the actual use of this than most anyone else on these forums, so I was just bowing to your knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Well since I was asked so nicely :blush: , I'll provide a little insight to this topic. Some of your parts are right, just not all of them. LOL, I didnt mean anything bad by it. You have a larger knowledge as to the actual use of this than most anyone else on these forums, so I was just bowing to your knowledge. Wasn't implying I didn't enjoy the recognition, just felt somewhat odd that my insight was actually looked higher upon on a subject. ;) I think the best bet (depending on your view of the subject and if we can or can't use the variants (If you're dark B. then you're perfectly fine)) is probably a razorback. Here you have the same transport, now with the ability to provide support fire, and as I stated above, you could use the variant razorbacks to really pack a punch. Plus this might deter your enemies attention to that lonely model hiding behind the razorback and instead focus on the TL HB's or some other weapon. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Curious- Drop pods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Grimfang Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Give him Master Crafted Lightning Claws and give him his own Land Raider Redeemer as a transort and let him go. On a serious note, foot slog him behind or along side a large BC pack, or support him with a Dred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Actually that sounds like fun.... taking a drop pod for the 5 Termis of my WG, and then putting out a landraider.... and then putting him to the side aswell, with my scouts for reserves. Drop pod in the WG, and then charge out the MOTW model. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 A while back I had a conversion in mind with a MoTW model that I hoped I would get to built, but abandoned it for other projects. So maybe someone out there will pick it up. My Vend dred got surrounded and bogged down with a mass of troops of one type or another and I was thinking I needed to have a MoTW guard my dread. So had this dog like chain going from the Ven Dred to the MoTW's neck. If at any time the dred wanted to release him I could detach the model and let him go kill, like releasing the dogs of war. Until he was released the MoTW model would us the dred to block line of sight. I took the head of a werewolf from a warhammer model and with green stuff made him more wolf looking than man, I turned the power armor's back head shield into a spiked collar and a pair of lightning claws completed the look. fun looking model. Vrox over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Also, you CAN take a pack leader with MotW. He just then ceases to lead the pack.. but still counts as a pack leader for the cost of the model. I cant remember which is cheaper, a WGPL or WGBG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Also, you CAN take a pack leader with MotW. He just then ceases to lead the pack.. but still counts as a pack leader for the cost of the model. I cant remember which is cheaper, a WGPL or WGBG First, the WGBG is cheaper (by 5 points). Second, you CANNOT, and I really need to stress this apparently, give MotW to a WGBG. It's only for WGPL's. Third, you CANNOT put MotW model in a drop pod, as that would imply he's in the pod for deployment purposes which isn't allowed for dedicated transports. Fourth, I second Marek's idea of using a BC screen if you don't want to give him his own transport. carry on. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Why cant you give one to a WGBG? Got something in the rules that prevents it? Its wargear. If you give it to a bodyguard, he is no longer a bodyguard.. but still counts as one for points cost. I have yet to read anything that would prevent it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Why cant you give one to a WGBG? Got something in the rules that prevents it? Its wargear. If you give it to a bodyguard, he is no longer a bodyguard.. but still counts as one for points cost. I have yet to read anything that would prevent it. Just that the WGBG MUST consist between 4-9 models and MUST be assigned to a character. Since the MotW allow neither, you can't give WGBG MotW. :P Since WGPL's say MAY be attached to a Space Wolves pack, it can clearly not be attached and thus be an IC running around like a crazy bloke that's really hairy. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Yes... and it meets those requirements. Here is the situation: You have a WP with 4 WGBG. One of those bodyguards has mark of the wulfen. He is still a bodyguard, and still assigned to the wolf priest... but, at the start of the game the Mark takes effect, he leaves the bodyguard he was a part of, and is an independent character. Afterall, a Wolf Guard leader MUST be attached to a pack as a leader for that pack. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Yes... and it meets those requirements. Here is the situation: You have a WP with 4 WGBG. One of those bodyguards has mark of the wulfen. He is still a bodyguard, and still assigned to the wolf priest... but, at the start of the game the Mark takes effect, he leaves the bodyguard he was a part of, and is an independent character. Afterall, a Wolf Guard leader MUST be attached to a pack as a leader for that pack. :P First, a Wolf Guard leader DOESN"T have to be attached, we all attach them because it's useless not to (you made me whip out my codex to double guess myself and it's plain as day there "At the start of battle, one Wolf Guard model may be attached to each Space Wolves pack as a leader for the pack. A Wolf Guard leader is a member of his pack and cannot leave it during the game." ) this clearly states you don't have to attach them to the squad, it just says if you do then they cannot leave it. Second, while your idea about the WGBG sounds good, it's not allowed, since (straight out of the codex) it says "A Wolf Guard bodyguard can consist of between 4 to 9 models. It must be assigned to a character that is allowed to have a bodyguard and the character and the bodyguard form a single unit." therefore if you have the WGBG with MotW leave the group he's not following unit coherency which isn't allowed, and if you keep him in the squad it's also against the MotW rules of which he cannot be apart of a unit. It's right in there lars, I don't know why you're making me work so hard, I'm tired and want to build my daemon prince! ^_^ It's 5 points more for the WGPL over the WGBG, and for good reason, the WGPL can be all by himself if he wanted to, you could have 20 WGPL's running around assigned to NO SQUAD if you wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Oh god....I just had a vision of 20 power fists running around the field of battle with combi flamers tucked in for good measure... I think I'm gonna have to change my pants now....and find an apoc game ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Good lord man... Wolf Guard can be used in two ways; they can either be assigned as a bodyguard for a character or they can be used as leaders for Space Wolves packs. Wolf Guard Leaders: At the start of a battle, one Wolf Guard model may be attached to each Space Wolves pack as a leader for the pack. Either bodyguard or Pack Leaders. Pack leaders may NOT be fielded on their own. Sorry. Quotes above. Perhaps the "may" in the second quote threw you off, but if you look just above that, it says to either use it as a bodyguard or pack leader. The reason why its 5 points less for a MotW BG is because you still have to buy the other 3 required to get a bodyguard. But, if your going to field bodyguards anyway, buy one more and give him the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Wait.. you really thought you could field lone wolf guards who got to run all over the field by themselves? Took me a second to wrap my head around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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