Khorne or Slaanesh

[Wulfen Lord Leo]

Im having a little bit of a problem at the moment, Im going to be starting a new army around xmas time which is going to be CSM with Kroot Allies. However I want the CSM part to be a heavily themed Marked army. Yes I know marks are virtually nonexistent, but I plan on taking cult troops for my troops.

 

So Im stuck with a dilema, which theme should I choose: Slaaneshi theme or Khorne theme?

[Rain]

Are Kroot allies even legal anymore? Last I heard of them was in a Chapter Approved from about 5 years ago and I know that hasn't been legal for a while. In any case, I think Khorne is a lot more straightforward to play and doesn't hinge on the hackneyed double lash gimmick, not to mention the look on your opponent's face when you tell him how many attacks those charging berzerkers get is just priceless.

[Wulfen Lord Leo]

GW released a PDF for them, Im not planning on tournements and my friends dont mind them.

 

Plus the look on my opponents face when he sees that my 5 Kroot Shaper Council, with 10 Hounds and all with evirscators and fleet, are more deadly than anything aside from a Khorne lord. (4 Chainfist attacks on the charge for each one, plus the hounds), would be priceless.

[CernunnosX]

I like assault, whenever I think of marines (traitors or otherwise) I envision voxed warcries and growling chainweapons and the crump of impacting/detonating bolt rounds as power armoured warriors run sreaming over a battlefieled at each other.

 

Thus I chose Khorne. ;)

 

I guess fundamentally it comes down to play style. Since you will be using cult troops primarily, if you tend towards shootiness go with Noise Marines as that is commonly believed to be their strength (although from what I understand they do alright in melee), if you favor straight assault go with Khorne as berzerkers are dead hard in that arena.

 

For me, another of the big draws to Khorne was the weapons of the berzerkers. I love those massively thick and ornate chainweapons.

 

Hope I've helped.

[chillin]

Khorne or Slanny ???

Khorne is a weopon, to be wielded, not differently then a axe. Brzrkrs are an arrow to be fired at the enemy, it will either find flesh or break. I give no more thought to them then an axe I might wield or an arrow I might let from a bow.

Slanny...NM's if minuplated well and played well can sew even more discord in the enemy troops then in your own, leave them to revel in their own "experiences", a distraction while your real solders, the ones your enemy should really be worring about go after what is really important, what we are really here for .

The cult troops are tools to be weilded by the undivided lords of the BL.

 

"you're sure none of the cult legion guys will read this right ?"

"great, go ahead and print it" :P

[Lady_Canoness]

As I have said before...

 

Follow Khorne, the Blood God, the Lord of Skulls, and you will not live to know regret!

 

Khorne offers the greates of gifts to those loyal to him in every way imaginable.

 

Fluffwise your warriors can be psychotic madmen and butchers who exist only to murder in the name of their god, or they can be the hard-bitten warrior elite of the Chaos Forces. The World Eaters are the line breakers, the shock assault, the ones who are chosen to storm the enemy and rip victory from them on the roaring teeth of a chain axe. Khorne knows no defeat, for every death - whether their or yours - is welcomed by the Blood God. Rush the enemy lines and revel in every life lost getting there, for you know that once you get there no one can stop you, and every death suffered in the charge is a blessing in disguise.

 

Tactically the forces of the Blood God are more viable as a complete army than any other, for the Mark of Khorne is cheaply bestowed upon your servants, and while every other follower of the weakling who would oppose you struggle to compete in conventional warfare with conventional weapons, you know that you can dominate the foe on your own terms, and that no matter what weapon they possess they will not be able to withstand you in close combat. The Assault phase is yours and yours alone. Every player turn allows you to butcher more and more, and offer torrents of blood up to your God, for while others mess about with only five assured shooting phases, you have ten assured assault phases in which to decimate your foes. Khorne Berzerkers are once again to be fear as one of the most powerful assault units in existence, and nothing can hope to survive an assault by eight of Khorne's favoured warriors. WS5, S5 and I5 on the charge with 4A - find me a foe who can withstand that! Park a laden Rhino close to your prey and know that they are doomed. If they run, the Berzerkers dismount and pursue. If they destroy the Rhino, your Berzerkers climb forth without fear and charge the enemy all the same. Combats are swift and bloody, ensuring that you can saw through the enemy to devestating effect. Your basic troops are better than the dedicated assault units of most other armies - remember that.

Our God gifts us with the only bonus that cannot be denied. Nurgle's toughness can be overcome by heavy weapons. Slaanesh's speed can be outdone foes who are faster. Tzeentch's magic protection can be overwhelmed by sheer numbers and weight of fire. Khorne's extra prowess in close combat - what can deny that?

 

From a hobbiest perspective you can creat anything you ever wished with the forces of Khorne! Vikings/Raiders in space? Go for it! Gladiators? Hell yes! The ranks of disciplined shock troops? Welcome the warrior coven! The frenzied madmen who can drive the enemy to flight with the very whisper of their name? Blood for the Blood God! Pansies in Pink? Ha ha, not in this life time!

 

Then we have Khârn - a man who inspires fear like no other! Enter the champion of Khorne - the warrior without equal - the killer of men - the slayer of heroes! No one can stand before his 7 attacks on the charge that hit on 2s and wound on 2s, and you can imagine that the body count he will amass at the end of every game will mock that of any other character. He is rightly feared, he is rightly reveared, he is the ultimate warrior! and a steal at 165pts! Trust me, he kills everything!

 

I too have played Eldar (I was a follower of the Swordwind), and let me tell you that nothing is more welcoming to me that to embrace the Blood God after having served Khaine for as long as I did. No longer do you have to worry about your units, no longer does every piece of the puzzle have to fit in place. Your puzzle now has one piece, and that piece fits very, very well. Go forward, get into combat... the rest is in the Blood God's hands - and he likes you

 

Release the beast within and rejoice in the glory of slaughter!

[Wulfen Lord Leo]

No offence, but you guys speak about Khorne marines as if they are Power armour orks. I think I might go with Slaanesh. Thanks for explaining them though.

[L0NEW0LF]

Khorne, Khorne, Khorne!

there's no other way to go IMO :lol:

[40kChrista]

Follow Khorne, the Blood God, the Lord of Skulls, and you will not live to know regret!

 

 

ummmm, i think Lady Canoness means is to "Follow Khorne, the Blood God, and you will live to not know regret!" :lol:

 

as far as the topic goes, if given the choice i would take Khorne over Slaanesh... just for the simple fact that your opponent knows you

will not have double Lash and instead will be carved into little pieces.

 

on a personal note, i wouldn't take either, too dang expensive points wise.

 

Grim

[Wulfen Lord Leo]

Follow Khorne, the Blood God, the Lord of Skulls, and you will not live to know regret!

 

 

ummmm, i think Lady Canoness means is to "Follow Khorne, the Blood God, and you will live to not know regret!" :lol:

 

as far as the topic goes, if given the choice i would take Khorne over Slaanesh... just for the simple fact that your opponent knows you

will not have double Lash and instead will be carved into little pieces.

 

on a personal note, i wouldn't take either, too dang expensive points wise.

 

Grim

Who says I'd use even SINGLE lash, the plan I have with either configureration is to take a daemon weapon equipped marked lord, and a Kroot Shaper Concil as my Second HQ

 

As for the points... why do you think Im using kroot?

[L0NEW0LF]

well all those Evicerator (chainfist) attacks will be going last so i'd be suprised if you actually got to use them.

besides i've had my mate charge my 8 man bezerker squad with a unit of 20 kroot + shaper and he lost the lot.

Kroot are good at wha they do (giving tau some CC ability) but they just dont stand up against THE combat monsters of 40k

[40kChrista]

can't go wrong with Demon Weapons

 

and i didn't mean anything even if you did take Lash... it's in the Codex and a viable option, but if you field Slaanesh that will be the first thing that pops into your opponents head... right? i understand your anti-Lash sentiment, i don't use it either, so chill man...

 

and if your going Slaanesh just take some Lesser Demons, they're cheap, assault after Deepstriking, have a ton of attacks on the charge and hit as hard as a Marine, and don't forget the nice 5++ save as well

[Wulfen Lord Leo]

can't go wrong with Demon Weapons

 

and i didn't mean anything even if you did take Lash... it's in the Codex and a viable option, but if you field Slaanesh that will be the first thing that pops into your opponents head... right? i understand your anti-Lash sentiment, i don't use it either, so chill man...

 

and if your going Slaanesh just take some Lesser Demons, they're cheap, assault after Deepstriking, have a ton of attacks on the charge and hit as hard as a Marine, and don't forget the nice 5++ save as well

The only person outside of my net GW stores who even knows whats in the codex of chaos is my friend whose going to make a renegade chapter.

 

And Im not angry, really. Plus that Lesser Daemon thing gave me a great idea, I was wondering how I was going to take the Shaper Council, a carnivore unit and a Hound unit without taking away from the Slaaneshi aspect as much.

[Morte]

From a fluff perspective, there's an interesting piece of writing an old White Dwarf (or could be the first Tau Codex) that details the first meeting of the Tau with Slaanesh. They kill a bunch of chaos worshipers, and the Kroot start eating their flesh and mutating. Let that be your guide!

 

(please don't do another lash-prince build :P)

[Lady_Canoness]

No offence, but you guys speak about Khorne marines as if they are Power armour orks.

 

Oh no. no no no no no.

 

Berzerkers are better than Orks! Whatever gave you the idea that orks are the best close conbat army out there!?! (What a silly idea!)

Low WS and S make orks kinda lame ^_^ Orks relly on charging, and even then, boyz aren't that great... 5 Berzerkers charge a unit of 20 Boyz - the Berzerkers absolutely pwn them no joke.

 

Power armoured orks? No. Power armoured super-orks? Yes!

[Zealot Of Chaos]

I shall take the argument for slaanesh seeing as it seems to be a khorne heavy thread

 

IMO nothing beats Noise Marines, whilst not the absolute masters of any particular aspect they excel in all areas, when I walk into a GW store and proclaim I want to battle people ask who I play and how many points, when I reply Slaanesh force with no lash, sure they laugh, until the game starts, so far my noise marines have not yet lost

 

their sonic blasters can fire 2 str 4 shots on the move and still assault, or 3 standing still and still assault, the blastmaster on the move fires 2 str 6 shots and can still assault or stand still and fire a str 8 ap3 pinning blast not to mention the doom siren an ap3 flamer template

 

I'd like to see bezerkers hold an objective better than noise marines... oh and I forgot to mention that NM are I5 so will strike first against almost anything plus bearing in mind this thread and that noise marines are equipped the same way

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=147015

 

I've had a 8 man squad of NM savagely beat down a squad of 10 striking scorpions who charged them then run them down

 

noise marines outclass and outperform bezerkers so much that its not een a competition, true khorne has a better special character than slaanesh, because khorne needs it to compensate for their troops, add to that the fact that blissgiver is the best daemon weapon because not only troops but independant characters fear it means that slaanesh is the way forward in 5th

 

don't get me wrong bezerkers are better in h2h they get 1 extra attack as standard, but they are only truly better as long as they charge to gain furious charge and unfortunately thats it, deny them it and watch as they try to bolt pistol you

 

plus khorne has rabies... luckily I'm inoculated against rabies

[Bloodstorm]

(please don't do another lash-prince build :()

 

;) :) :lol:

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Slaanesh has better gun threat range and will typically strike first in CC. Khorne has no stamina and no reach in this Codex incarnation (they rocked the block in 3.5, though, bar none) but will buzzsaw through anything they can get to and strike at first. As I've been playing, I've cycled more and more Slaanesh/Nurgle into my list and less Khorne, though I will admit that there's nothing quite so bone-crunchingly satisfying as five Khorne Terminators assaulting straight out of a Land Raider with 20 power attacks, falling onto an enemy Command Squad.

[Rain]

Well, Slaanesh suffers from the fact that Noise Marines are basically a mid range shooting unit and are therefore much more difficult to wield effectively that khorne which is pretty much a club or nurgle which is a rock. Point being that both Khorne and Nurgle basically thrive in assault, khorne gets extra attacks and furious charge and nurgle is T5 FNP with defensive grenades (try to push THAT off of an objective).

 

Meanwhile NM are wasting points while in HtH as a squad with banner of Slanny will do just as well and for less, and zerks/plagues will do better for about the same. The upshot then becomes midrange shooting, unfortunately this is not always feasible especially on a smaller board or a cluttered one. Sure it can work but I am of the opinion that this game is very assault centric and so extra HtH power supersedes better shooting in most cases.

[Wulfen Lord Leo]

hmm, maybe I should tell you guys who my regular opponents are. Theres one guy who is collecting chaos at christmas.

Theres one with a Tau army.

Theres one with an Ork army and a Marine army (he swapped his Tau to the Tau guy in exchange for a second Black Reach)

One with so many armies we've stopped counting anymore.

And you guy I know who has Ultras, Nids and the Toasters.

 

Oh and the Hidden Tactic behind the Kroot is that they screen for any major long range threats (or infiltrate, whichever is faster.) Plus with Kroot, its entirely possible for a first turn assult.

[MrGotDice]

No offence, but you guys speak about Khorne marines as if they are Power armour orks. I think I might go with Slaanesh. Thanks for explaining them though.

 

http://www.freewebs.com/fonzys/aggghhh%20ork.gif

 

OI! What louzy git be talkin' 'bout da Orkzez like dat? Dem Kaos boyz ain't neva gonna be as fighty as a ork!

[Rain]

Just play whatever appeals to you more aesthetically. If you play a list only to beat your opponents into the dirt you will either burn out or lose interest when rules change and take away your setup. And in the end, none of us can tell you what you would like more, only you can do that.

[the jeske]

lose interest when rules change and take away your setup

that would be second part of 5th ed [if it really happens] so its more or less 3/4 years of playing .

 

 

Well, Slaanesh suffers from the fact that Noise Marines are basically a mid range shooting unit and are therefore much more difficult

this is not true . csm and pms are mid range . nm have atreat range of 30". sure its not as good as EC havocks back in the days of 4th , but its till better then any non terminator/gk army out there .

[Rain]

Yes but both CSM and PM are very point efficient in assault, unlike NM that are not. So yes, CSM and PM can be midrange and given plasma weapons can be quite good at it, but they can also hold their own relative to points in the inevitable assault. And aren't just blastmasters 36? Sonics are 24 and doom sirens are flame templates, so not that much of an advantage over other infantry other than the fact that they are assault weapons but unlike for PM you pay both for the mark and the weapons, making NM less efficient IMO.

[DOGGED]

If you wanna play kroots with chaos I say Slaanesh as the "pure" HtH is, I assume priority for the kroots. Also I love the piece Morte "quoted" and I think it's a fine start for your fluff. I guess you'll be moving your forces and it's no problem because noises can move and shoot all their weaponry, and when they get to the close fight, they'll kick first. That, united to the superior range of their guns compared to other assaulty infantry, makes them excel. Plus, it looks difficult to have a mixed army including khornies and xenos unless these prove good enough opponents. If your kroot really are, it may be a good fluff point for you doing khorne... But I'd go with Slaanesh.