the jeske Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Sonics are 24 and doom sirens are flame templates, so not that much of an advantage over other infantry other than the fact that they are assault weapons but unlike for PM you pay both for the mark and the weapons, making NM less efficient IMO. but NM are made for shoting . and shoting is safer in W40k . you have one phase when you get loses[enemy shoting phase] , while zerkers and pms take loses in the shoting phase[and because they are short range they offten cant shot back] + both yours and your opponents hth phase . Am not saying here that NM are the uber of all cult troops , but they are not inferior to zerkers or pms , they just requier a different army build . + with the number of shots they have its much easier for them to force saves on vetsgts/hvy-special weapon guys/etc . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Meanwhile NM are wasting points while in HtH as a squad with banner of Slanny will do just as well and for less, and zerks/plagues will do better for about the same. The upshot then becomes midrange shooting, unfortunately this is not always feasible especially on a smaller board or a cluttered one. Sure it can work but I am of the opinion that this game is very assault centric and so extra HtH power supersedes better shooting in most cases. I can see why you're making this point and its true in a sense. However the assumption is being made that Noise Marines must pick between assaulters or shooters, but they don't. The closest thing to a Noise Marine is a Grey Knight (or maybe Ork Shoota Boyz). This is making the assumption that you are giving them Sonic Blasters. However if you aren't then you're right that a marked squad is basically the same thing (lose fearless and option for Doom Siren for point savings). The Sonic Blaster makes all the difference really. At the absolute worst, its an extra shot on the charge, bringing a Noise Marine up to 5 S4 hits on the charge. However when used properly it should be used to weaken the enemy unit at range before your assault or kite them as you move backwards before counter assaulting. Alot of the Grey Knight's tactics will be helpful to Noise Marines. The changes are we're faster and have more attacks on the charge and they have the S6 attacks and better WS. Basically, you have to use them as a Hybrid unit, both shooting and assaulting. Thats the best way to get full value out of them. To say that you're wasting points spent on shooting if they're in HtH is silly because they should have been shooting before. Thats the same as saying a Beserker is wasting a phase by not being able to shoot at anything past 12". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironknuckle Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Khorne Berzerkers never disapoint, and with Raptors... double the pleasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Inquisitor Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Slaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 To say that you're wasting points spent on shooting if they're in HtH is silly because they should have been shooting before.well the main difference between GK and NM is that GK dont have 2 lash and oblits in support . HtH is too risky for units that cost so much . I would rather lash away a tac unit or assault sm unit and shot at it [offten this means they will have to choose if they want to stand and shot once or move and possiblly not be in range to double tap my NM] , the risk losing NM to powerfists or IC that are in the unit . + There is really a large number of units that NM just dont want to be in HtH with [anything with power armor and FnP , bikers with IC , terminators , walkers and dreadnoughts etc ]. Thats the same as saying a Beserker is wasting a phase by not being able to shoot at anything past 12". no , but they are wasting pts each turn they are not trying to get in to hth or are not in hth . If I constatlly lash away 2 units of zerkers from hth , then they are wasted pts . [specially if they are on an objective]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfen Lord Leo Posted October 11, 2008 Author Share Posted October 11, 2008 To say that you're wasting points spent on shooting if they're in HtH is silly because they should have been shooting before.well the main difference between GK and NM is that GK dont have 2 lash and oblits in support . HtH is too risky for units that cost so much . I would rather lash away a tac unit or assault sm unit and shot at it [offten this means they will have to choose if they want to stand and shot once or move and possiblly not be in range to double tap my NM] , the risk losing NM to powerfists or IC that are in the unit . + There is really a large number of units that NM just dont want to be in HtH with [anything with power armor and FnP , bikers with IC , terminators , walkers and dreadnoughts etc ]. Thats what I've got Kroot for, lets see those get through a Kroot Hound squad at full strength (20 Hounds, 19 Kroot and 1 Shaper with evirscator). Who needs lash when you have mercinaries :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGGED Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Minigun has hit it, and as U sadi U got the kroots to do the meat grinding. So no doubt go Slaanesh. BTW I'm seeing kroots as a nice addition to chaos... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primarch Naogedd Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Definitely see where you're going minigun; it seems that if you don't want to shell out for a GK water warrior army, the closest one can get is sonic-armed noise marines. Same price, just as shooty on the move and more shooty staying still, less strength but more initiative so there will be less return attacks. Plus we have cheap land raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 chaos NM are more shoty because they can run 6/9 oblits or 4 oblits and a dakka pred . GK dont have that . + we NM can use lords and DPs who are much suprior to GK HQ both in hth and in the cost part . What we lack is the abilty to take 2 crusaders . But then again I dont really see the rush army as very good , so its not a big lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord arkon Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 KHORNE ALWAYS!!!! Khorne beserkers completly own!!!!!!!!! But in all honesty it depends what armies you play against since if your up against something like the IG who are pants in assault go with beserkers yet things like orks and tyranids the noise marines are brilliant in my experience! I've got both but I find the beserkers more fun :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kea Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD go with the lord of skulls khorne the blood god or your head shall be part of the skull throne :tu: but if your not big on close combat go with Slanesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Of Chaos Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD go with the lord of skulls khorne the blood god or your head shall be part of the skull throne :) but if your not big on close combat go with Slanesh what our esteemed colleague forgets to mention is that even if you do go khorne your head is just as likely to be part of the skull throne, khorne is not fussy about whos blood / skulls it is as long as he gets his fill and I've already made my argument earlier in this thread Slaanesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.