Exploded Vehicle Terrain

[DevianID]

I would be interested to know what people decide to use to represent the 'area of vehicle debris or crater' they refer to in the rules when a vehicle explodes (result 6 on the vehicle damage table).

 

I myself simply prefer to continue to use the original vehicle to represent an 'area of scattered wreckage,' while I have some opponents who wish to simply remove the vehicle and use nothing to represent the 'area of scattered wreckage.' I like using the original vehicle because that way the terrain is exactly the same size for LOS purposes, while others like the exploded vehicle to leave zero cover whatsoever to shelter behind.

 

For this reason at tourneys I carry around GW's crater set, and before the game ask my opponent if using the GW craters they sell will work to represent the 'crater' we are supposed to replace an exploded vehicle with. This I feel is the most neutral solution, as people who wish to continue to shelter behind an exploded vehicle have something left, and people who wish to use nothing will definately be able to draw LOS into and over to the squad stuck in or behind the crater (though they get a save), as the crater is much shorter than any vehicle. Also, it is important to decide if the crater will be difficult and dangerous terrain at the start of the game.

 

The reason why I think this is a very good question that warrents more than a cursory glance at page 61 is that terrain is supposed to be agreed upon before the game begins, yet many, MANY, times in a competetive game deciding how to play exploded vehicle terrain is overlooked at the start of the game and of course at the bottom of turn 7 when the presence or absence of said newly exploded vehicle terrain can and does decide the outcome of the game, suddenly no one can agree with what constitues a 'crater' or 'area of scattered wreckage' lol.

 

So to restate, what do people use to represent their exploded vehicles, and what rules to you assign to the terrain?

[williamdelgray]

Well, my group used the tank flipped over and counted it as dangerous terrain. Another group (I am getting into after a move) uses a crater with bits of various tank parts in it. Which I think is a neat idea. Still, dangerous terrain.

[Shiodome]

shouldn't really be open to debate, it clearly says in the rulebook that if a vehicle is wrecked it should be left on the table (pg62). many tons of steel and adamantium doesn't just dissapear because it's damaged. i normally ask my opponent if it's ok to remove the vehicle if it's in a place that will have no further affect on the game (as i just prefer models to go back in the case when they die so they have less chance of damaged paint etc :D), but if it's in the thick of the action it stays... i wouldn't ask for a building to be removed if it was inconveniant, so i won't do the same for wrecks.

[SeattleDV8]

Ah thats great for wrecked vehicles. Exploded vehicles are removed Pg 61. A wrecked vehicle is dangerous terrain PG 62 exploded vehicles are difficult.

[nighthawks]

at our FLGS we use graters, both the GW vacuum mold ones and some scratchbuilts. it's difficult, as in the BBB. there's almost no viable room for an argument on this stuff, the book is pretty clear as to how to treat the terrain.

[Cairnius]

Yeah, it's pretty clear - if a vehicle gets the explodo, you pull the model and replace it with a crater.

 

IMHO I think you should always have at least three crater pieces for every table which are not laid down as terrain, but which are kept in reserve to replace exploded vehicles. I have two so far for my home table which are Rhino-sized, and I have the GW set in case I need more.

[Frogstaff]

yet many, MANY, times in a competetive game deciding how to play exploded vehicle terrain is overlooked at the start of the game and of course at the bottom of turn 7 when the presence or absence of said newly exploded vehicle terrain can and does decide the outcome of the game, suddenly no one can agree with what constitues a 'crater' or 'area of scattered wreckage' lol

This could all be solved simply by looking in the rule book.

 

The rules state that exploded vehicles are replaced by a crater. The cover rules leave very little room for argument about how a crater is treated.

 

Problem solved.

[DevianID]

The rules state that exploded vehicles are replaced by a crater. The cover rules leave very little room for argument about how a crater is treated

 

LOL at my book searching skills, they were not in either example for what constitutes difficult or dangerous terrain when I looked specificly for them last night in the cover section; could someone point out the page numbers they appear on? The first appearance of craters I was able to find was in the shooting section as providing a 4+ cover save and in the vehicle section as what you replace an exploded vehicle with--no mention of being difficult/dangerous terrain that I can find.

 

As to the whole replace the vehicle with a crater, if you notice the rule is to replace the vehicle with an 'area of scattered wreckage' (which is technically different than wreck AND crater, thus not necessarily dangerous terrain, and not necessarily area terrain either) OR a crater if available. So my point is, when you explode a vehicle, it is not so clear cut as to what type of terrain to use (scattered wreckage or crater) or what it counts as (Area terrain? Difficult? Dangerous?)

[SeattleDV8]

BRB Pg 62 Wrecks "...counting as both difficult and dangerous terrain,..."

Pg 61 Damage Results-explodes "....replaced with an area of difficult ground....." that should have been worded terrain instead of ground, but means the same.

[DevianID]

Pg 61 Damage Results-explodes "....replaced with an area of difficult ground....." that should have been worded terrain instead of ground, but means the same.

 

I love how they handle vehicle wrecks... the vehicle stays there, blocks los like before, and is difficult and dangerous. Its all spelled out black and white and there are no arguments.

 

But what I have issues with is brought up by your above statement... it should have been worded different, but because it wasnt, in a tourney environment that must play by RAW its a lot more challenging to find the rules. IE, does an area of difficult ground count as area terrain, and if so where in the rules does it day that? My opinion is yes, but opinions dont help in RAW, when your in a tourney on the bottom of 7 and the terrain being area (thus granting saves regardless of LOS) or not very well can decide the outcome of the game -- and thusly perhaps whether you win or lose the entire tourney.

 

Also, does that 'area of difficult ground representing scattered wreckage' count as dangerous terrain? Wrecks count as dangerous terrain we all know, but what about when you 'scatter' that wreck? Is it still dangerous? Again I say yes, but try telling that to your opponent who can lose the game by rolling a single 1 to assault you in said dangerous terrain.

 

Maybe I am just paranoid, because it happened to me once already so I just want to see what other people do.

[Shiodome]

? ^_^

 

what's the issue?

 

wrecked = model left in place, counts difficult and dangerous terrain. blocks LOS

 

explodes = model removed, crater placed where vehicle was, area terrain providing 4+ cover, difficult terrain, doesn't block LOS.

 

it doesn't say it's dangerous terrain, so it isn't. it does say it's a crater, which provides a 4+. it does say difficult terrain (though worded badly) so it's difficult terrain. craters are area terrain (pg13 rulebook) i don't see how this is ambiguous? if it helps, i don't have any craters, but between two players we always have 2 sets of templates... i normally agree with opponents to place a small blast template for walkers exploded, and a large one for tanks... and that's used to define area terrain and cover saves. opponents have always been happy with that as being fair so far. :)

[King Tiger]

I always wanted to actually use a wrecked version of the vehicle thats been destroyed.....but I've never been able to figure out haw to make a vehicle look realistically damaged yet, but thats what I will do once I figure it out

[Shiodome]

i made a wrecked basilisk once.

 

basilisk.... hammer... finished. looked pretty realisitc after i sprayed bits of it black for flame damage :mellow: