WAR Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 My Friend and I have been having a debate recently due to another friends Tyranid army (I play to smash you not have fun kinda of guy), well he has been try to figure out ways to play 5th ed and just smash everyone. Well his new idea is the tyranid Phsyic scream thing, from what I have been told it is a phsyic power so I can sheild of faith it (5 + ignore power) but if that fails it drops my leadership by whatever causes it. Now for the question does The book of St. Lucuius still override that rule and allow me to use the model with in 6 inches unmodified leadership to make a leadership test if that model is carrying the book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdosInquisition Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I'm not actually sure, though being a somewhat biased witch hunters player I am inclined to think that dropping your leadership is modifying it, but as i said, I don't know. You could put in a Psychic Hood to be a jerk, then he has to pass a leadership roll off and your 5+ negate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePurifier Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 IMHO this is exactly the type of situation that the 'unmodified Leadership' part of the rule was meant to refer to. Take my opinion with a grain of salt though. I'm one of the few and much-chastised believers that this rule doesn't refer to things like negative morale modifiers after losing a combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dourine Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Unmodified means no modifications, you take the stat that the codex gives you and you use that stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAR Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 that is what I think too, but the nid player is kinda of rules beater....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppella Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Than you get to slap him with the book anyways. Its win-win there. Basically what people need to start realizing is that you don't get to use bonus leadership either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJumppanen Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Unmodified means no modifications, you take the stat that the codex gives you and you use that stat. IIRC only rule that actualy effects on sisters with a book is "Soulless" rule, but i don't think that this tyranid rule is anything similar. As for Shield of Faith, ASFAIK it doesn't do anything on tyranids unless that particular power being used requires a psychic test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charred Heretic Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I'd rule against Scream. You have to look at the wording case by case: The Good Book allows you to use "unmodified Ld" of the model carrying the book. However Scream causes "-1 to all Ld Tests". (Could this mean that we -1 to the die roll of the test???) Obviously not, because that would produce a positive effect! Getting back to the book, it does not specify the source of the negative modifier, (outnumbered, psychic, or other). Therefore the book applies to all negative Ld modifiers, as defined on the top right of 43. If the Nid rule trumped the Book, then any kind of modifier would trump the book, and that makes no sense. That ruling does not work. Now IF the Nid special rule stated to "add +1 to the Ld DICE ROLL", then I would allow the Nid Special Rule to have exactly that effect upon the "unmodfied" Ld of the model bearing the book. Conclusion: In this case, the book prevails. There is no logical alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River Black Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 I dont think you can use a psychic hood to try and negate the scream because you never test to use the pyschic scream. The scream is always constant and effects all enemies with in 18". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 "Unmodified" means unmodified. No negative or positive Leadership effects-- base leadership value. And yes, the Shield of Faith can effect Tyranid psychic powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasarcq Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Again, I'll reinforce the ruling of the Book always using the unmodified, baseline Ld of the sister who carries the book. All negatives and positives are canceled out (i.e. the seraphim's ability to add +1 to Ld doesn't work on a unit with a book or unit in the book's range). On the topic of shield of faith, the tyranid codex pg. 31 states that psychic powers that do not require a test may not be canceled by "psykers or wargear". Shield of Faith is neither psyker or wargear in origin (Adepta Sororitas are not psykers). The shield of faith ability may be attempted to nullify any psychic power targeted on them. This includes powers that are area effect (C:WH pg.18). But in the case that River Black pointed out, a psychic hood would not stop this power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charred Heretic Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 On the topic of shield of faith, the tyranid codex pg. 31 states that psychic powers that do not require a test may not be canceled by "psykers or wargear". Shield of Faith is neither psyker or wargear in origin (Adepta Sororitas are not psykers). The shield of faith ability may be attempted to nullify any psychic power targeted on them. This includes powers that are area effect (C:WH pg.18). /yes unless the Psychic Power is "persistent", as per the 5th ed WH FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkaniss Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 As said - unmodified is unmodified. I don't see whats so hard to understand about that. I play a 'nid army a lot and there are no issues like this because to both me and my friend the wording is quite clear. He doesn't take Psychic Scream anymore as you can imagine! Its why you don't see a Sisters vehicle with the Holy Icon upgrade - as it adds 1 to their Leadership. Which is completely redundant when they all have a Book of Saint Lucius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toogeloo Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 IIRC only rule that actualy effects on sisters with a book is "Soulless" rule, but i don't think that this tyranid rule is anything similar. As for Shield of Faith, ASFAIK it doesn't do anything on tyranids unless that particular power being used requires a psychic test.Soulless doesn't interfere with the Book of St Lucius either. Soulless says that all models within 12" "Counts as" Leadership 7, however the Book specifically states that any model called upon to take a leadership test within 6" of a Book holder uses the book holder's "unmodified" leadership. You use the number printed in the codex. Any number other than the number printed in the codex would be considered a modification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UreeL Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Don't forget that if you want to, you can decide to not use the book. (if for example there are only positive modifiers or you actually want to run away...) Ureel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTang Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Soulless doesn't interfere with the Book of St Lucius either. Soulless says that all models within 12" "Counts as" Leadership 7, however the Book specifically states that any model called upon to take a leadership test within 6" of a Book holder uses the book holder's "unmodified" leadership. You use the number printed in the codex. Any number other than the number printed in the codex would be considered a modification. Well, I'm one of the folks who goes with the interpretation that changing the number to another number is not a modification to the LD. So I would say that's true as long as the holder of the Book is more than 12" away from the Soulless model. Anyway, something else to remember the Book only words on Morale and Pinning tests. Psychers and the few other test against LD powers will still get hit by the LD 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charred Heretic Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Soulless doesn't interfere with the Book of St Lucius either. Soulless says that all models within 12" "Counts as" Leadership 7, however the Book specifically states that any model called upon to take a leadership test within 6" of a Book holder uses the book holder's "unmodified" leadership. You use the number printed in the codex. Any number other than the number printed in the codex would be considered a modification. Well, I'm one of the folks who goes with the interpretation that changing the number to another number is not a modification to the LD. So I would say that's true as long as the holder of the Book is more than 12" away from the Soulless model. /agree If the book is outside the 12" radius of the Souless effect, then both rules can be simultaneously applied. The affected model has a Ld of 7, but when she makes a Ld test, she uses the Ld of the book-bearer. That's easy. If the book is inside the 12" radius of the Souless effect, that can be a problem. I think that you can say that the Book-Bearer's Ld has been modified, and therefore the book should prevail. I don't expect everyone to agree with this, and I expect it will always be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 changing the number to another number is not a modification That doesn't even grammatically make sense-- modifiying the number to another number is not modification? What? Also, Shield of Faith effects all psychic powers that effect the sisters. This was confirmed in a past WH FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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