Enemy crossing open-topped pods...

[ShinyRhino]

This situation came up over the weekend tourney I played in.

 

I used a couple of my drop pods to block up some gaps in terrain, and allow me a secure firebase to shoot from behind against Orks. Unfortunately, the Ork player decided he'd move and assault through my pods to get at me. At one point while assaulting my Dread, his mob of boyz ended up inside my pod during the assault.

 

Since the pods are immobile, and open-topped, I didn't have a problem with it.

 

But, now that i think back on it, would that have been legal? My pod still counts as a unit, unless it's been wrecked or exploded. So, the orkplayer would have had to go around it to attack a unit on the other side, since he cannot end movement or assault within 1" of my units if he is not assaulting them, correct?

 

Also, in another game that day, I had a Deathwing player assault a tac squad who'd just popped out of their pod. The proximity allowed the Wing player to base not only the tac squad, but their pod, AND the nearby Dread pod. He claimed he could attack all three units with his one squad of terminators by splitting his attacks, since he'd based all of them during his charge. I thought all attacks during a charge had to be targeted at the squad you charged, and additional base contact is forbidden beyond that. Who was correct?

 

Thanks!

[Stormcaller3801]

Drop pods are counted as open-topped Space Marine vehicles that are immobile. As such, unless the Ork player is willing to allow you to charge through his Trukks, he should not be able to charge through your Drop Pods. And while it might be cool to imagine a Vanguard doing a kick-slide across the hood of a Trukk before tearing into a mob of Boyz on the other side, even if he allowed it that it would still be a house rule rather than complying with the game rules. He needs to destroy the Drop Pod before he can get past it. There might be some argument over whether opened doors should be treated as part of the 'vehicle' or not, but strictly per the rules as I understand them, he'd have to go completely around or destroy it prior to attacking through the space it occupied.

 

As for the Deathwing, I can't say for certain as I don't have the book open in front of me, but I remember something about being able to engage other nearby enemy targets once the original target is engaged. However I don't remember the specifics of it, other than the fact the entirety of the original target unit must be engaged before you can consider others. Does that mean 1 attacker per base, or models not able to get within 2" of a model in base contact, or no more attackers able to get into base contact? I don't remember. It may even only apply to the counter move by the assaulted unit. But I know the 'original unit must be fully engaged first' rule comes into play.

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

The orks were not legit, the DA were.

The pod is still there, still live.

He (almost certainly) wouldn't let you charge over an immobilized Trukk to fight him, so why let him charge through your Pod?

According to RAW, it's not legal.

As to the DA, you can assault as many units as you can contact, and any model can attack anything it is engaged with.

[ShinyRhino]

Thanks for the responses, all.

The doors were irrelevant, as I use scratch-built pods from the French templates with no open doors. I'll be sure to point that out in the future. The guy was cranky as it was, and I think telling him that he couldn't get over my pods to the squads ripping his mobz with bolter and melta would have caused him to flip his lid.

Nice guy and all, but he seems to HATE Marines. Kept making snide comments about how Marines "never miss". But, that's irrelevant to the rules at hand.

 

Also good to know about the Deathwing.

[Shiodome]

the drop pod has a gun gun nailed to the ceiling as plenty of discouragement to anyone thinking of walking underneath it. if you need to justify it there may be gaps a man sized model could squeeze through, but they're squeezing past an active turret spitting death from above, not something you can just ignore and walk past without a care (much like you can't walk past your marines within an inch either.... because they'd trip you up and laugh at you or something).

[bystrom]

The rule for charging multiple units in close combat can be found on page 34 if you want to read it yourself. Its as people have said already, though in the case of the deathwing, the player needed to declare what units that the terminators were charging and which unit each model were attacking (from those they could attack - those in base-to-base firstly, or else, within 2").

[nighthawks]

I agree with the reading that an imobilized vehicle may not be moved over or through by the enemy. a space marine drop pod cannot be boarded even by space marines (specific mention in drop pod rules).

 

also agree with the assualt move by the DA.

 

I wanted to address the pod doors - as all disembarkation out of, shooting at, and deep striking issues are resolved with regard to the hull of the vehicle, then your view of the doors of the drop pod, when open, as hull or not would determine weather models may or may not move over them. I personally believe, and a recent thread here seemed to concur, that the doors, ramps, etc... of any vehicle, including pods, are not used to measure distances, so go ahead and charge over the open pod doors, just not through the main body of the pod.

[Mal]

Thanks for the responses, all.

The doors were irrelevant, as I use scratch-built pods from the French templates with no open doors. I'll be sure to point that out in the future. The guy was cranky as it was, and I think telling him that he couldn't get over my pods to the squads ripping his mobz with bolter and melta would have caused him to flip his lid.

Nice guy and all, but he seems to HATE Marines. Kept making snide comments about how Marines "never miss". But, that's irrelevant to the rules at hand.

 

Also good to know about the Deathwing.

 

if he wanted an army that was capable of performing a shooty war then he should have picked a force with a Bs higher than 2.

[Stormcaller3801]

Eh- not to send this too far out on a tangent, but Orks can actually do shooty pretty well. It's just a matter of investing in enough (and large enough) guns.

[ShinyRhino]

Interesting point on the "no embarking" bit. But can MY Marines move over my pod? They're just moving over the pod, not embarking it. Or do you feel it's a balance issue that keeps them from doing such?

[Stormcaller3801]

IIRC, you will be able to move within 1" of the pod without an assault move (as its friendly) but you can't walk through the pod any more than you could walk through a tank.

[Mal]

correct storm, it counst as a unit still so friendly can move to within 1" or embark, but enemy cannot move to within 1" unless assulting it.

 

Shiny, I know orks can do shooty well, thats not what I said, he was refering to the rate marines hit, so I countered by saying he chose an army with an average Bs of 2... which is a 5+ to hit.... compared to a marines 3+ that offically sucks. But then their main strengths lie in CC.

[ShinyRhino]

correct storm, it counst as a unit still so friendly can move to within 1" or embark, but enemy cannot move to within 1" unless assulting it.

 

Shiny, I know orks can do shooty well, thats not what I said, he was refering to the rate marines hit, so I countered by saying he chose an army with an average Bs of 2... which is a 5+ to hit.... compared to a marines 3+ that offically sucks. But then their main strengths lie in CC.

 

This must be in response to my "balance issue" sentence? That was in reference to the balance issue of me being able to move over my pod, and the enemy not able to do so.

 

But I agree with you on the Ork thing. They CAN do shooty, but he wasn't geared for that, and never is. He always brings one unit of the Orks' equivalent to a Dev squad (Lootas?) with Deffgunz. The unit where you roll a d3 to determine number of shots per Ork. Those are deadly at range because of the mass of fire.

[Stormcaller3801]

Lootas, yes. Although I don't know if I'd quite describe them as equivalent to a Dev Squad- Orks don't really have an equivalent, instead having several units that each specialize in a particular weapon.

[bystrom]

This must be in response to my "balance issue" sentence? That was in reference to the balance issue of me being able to move over my pod, and the enemy not able to do so.

 

Actually the rules are written so that no model base may cover the same space (stand on each other), and in a lot of cases (barring say skimmers and jump infantry) models aren't allowed to move through bases. So, its a simple matter of defining what counts as part of the model, for example for the drop pod doors, or just there for aesthetics (like it says to ignore such things as small rocks on models). In the case of drop pod doors, either they count as part of the model and no model can cross them, but enemies charging, can do so against the doors. Or the doors are ignored and any model can cross them, but when charging, measure to the hull.

[nighthawks]

I, for one, would advocate measuring to the hull ALWAYS

[SeattleDV8]

correct storm, it counst as a unit still so friendly can move to within 1" or embark, but enemy cannot move to within 1" unless assulting it.

 

Thats not quite correct. the the move within 1" resctriction is only for enemy models. As long as the base can fit though a gap in friendly forces you are allowed to move though it.

[Stormcaller3801]

That's what I said, Seattle- and what, if I'm not mistaken, Mal repeated.

 

Friendly models can move to within 1" or embark on a vehicle. Enemy models may not move within 1" of a vehicle except during an assault.

[Brother Gothard]

But ... to be sure, you cannot embark back into drop pods, can you?

[SeattleDV8]

That's what I said, Seattle- and what, if I'm not mistaken, Mal repeated.

 

Friendly models can move to within 1" or embark on a vehicle. Enemy models may not move within 1" of a vehicle except during an assault.

Not quite . there is no minimum for friendly models , you can move base to base...Enemy models have to stay 1" away unless assaulting

correct Brother . you cannot embark on a deployed drop pod.

[nighthawks]

But ... to be sure, you cannot embark back into drop pods, can you?

new codex P.69 - "Once the passengers have disembarked, no models can embark on the drop pod for the remainder of the game."

[Stormcaller3801]

That's what I said, Seattle- and what, if I'm not mistaken, Mal repeated.

 

Friendly models can move to within 1" or embark on a vehicle. Enemy models may not move within 1" of a vehicle except during an assault.

Not quite . there is no minimum for friendly models , you can move base to base...Enemy models have to stay 1" away unless assaulting

 

Look again:

 

Friendly models can move to within 1" or embark on a vehicle. Enemy models may not move within 1" of a vehicle except during an assault.

 

Exactly what part of that is untrue? Because unless I am extremely mistaken, you just repeated it back to me while saying I was wrong.

[ShinyRhino]

Look again:

 

Friendly models can move to within 1" or embark on a vehicle. Enemy models may not move within 1" of a vehicle except during an assault.

 

Exactly what part of that is untrue? Because unless I am extremely mistaken, you just repeated it back to me while saying I was wrong.

 

I think the wording that's being stuck on is "to within 1 inch". You're both saying the same thing, but wording it differently. That's all.

[Mal]

read it carefully storm... I said friendly CAN move to within 1", this is EXACTLY the same as what you are saying.... then then went on to say enemy can NOT move to within 1" unless assulting or being assulted, which is also true.

[Stormcaller3801]

read it carefully storm... I said friendly CAN move to within 1", this is EXACTLY the same as what you are saying.... then then went on to say enemy can NOT move to within 1" unless assulting or being assulted, which is also true.

 

I thought you did but I didn't want to assume outright, so I presented your agreement as opinion rather than fact.