Grey Mage Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 So generally speaking I cant seem to get bloodclaws to work for me in 5th edition. 3rd and fourth they did just fine, and now they die every game... usually shot to peices before they do anything. If they dont, I have to gambit them to take out something monstrous... and most of them die, and the remnants get taken out later. Yesterday they all died, again... but it was amazing. All footslogger force with a whirlwind, predator, and vendread to back them up against mounted orks with lots of lootaz.... And a looted basilisk. My whirlwind didnt hit any troops until turn 3... but stunned the basilisk the first two turns against all odds. In anycase I placed the large BC squad, 15 w/3 powerfists, in the middle of my battleline expecting to get charged.... stole the iniative and stunned or imobilized all of his transports.... wow. Kept moving foward, firing what I could.... bloodclaws get charged, fail their leadership test. Crap. Then I notice something.... I outnumber the orks. Im astounded by this... and each turn he and I do the same number of wounds to each other. Seeking to even the odds he sends the remants of a squad I tore apart with an exploding transport to help... adding another nob with powerclaw and five more boyz. The bloodclaws kill all but three.... the orks run... kills off the last boy using his bannerpole.... and is still caught by the lone bloodclaw with powerfist. That bloodclaw in turn destroys over the next three turns two ork warbuggies, a truck, and finishes off another truck, wich explodes and kills him. He missed his save by one point. Ironic, I was going to make him a wolfgaurd for it all if hed survived. In any case.... how are your bloodclaws doing in 5th edition? And how do you keep them from being shot to bits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deedark Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Landraider D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastHuzzah Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Landraider /Agree A 13 man BC squad (2 pweap, 1pfist;mix here if you like) with a WGPL (pfist) and WP (HPaB, PP) in a crusader = Copious amounts of pain for anything they charge (18" due to assault ramps). -Huzzah Edit- Come to think of it, I think there is a 16 model capacity in the Crusader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I believe it has 16 spaces in their. But i would also suggest taking the Runepriest. Stormcaller lets you strike first and thet helps greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastHuzzah Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Spacefrisian, I believe that the latest printing of the codex does not allow units to strike first when charging. Given the choice between getting charged and rolling for counter-attack, or charging with the BCs; I'm charging for the guaranteed +2 attacks. -Huzzah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Well, I haven't tried them in 5th edition, but in 4th, a single blood claw killed 4 Chaos Terminators, including an inspiring champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I believe it has 16 spaces in their. But i would also suggest taking the Runepriest. Stormcaller lets you strike first and thet helps greatly. As Huzzah said you don't strike first when you charge, as the codex says when you receive a charge and then you look to the BBB and that whole mess and it's just terrible since nothing really happens for them just that they get a cover save. :lol: I rarely field them, but at the 40k radio I had a squad in a crusader as mentioned by others and they did extremely well... problem occurred when they did TOO well in combat against templars then were proceeded to get shot at by squads point blank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 Oh I can read the stat sheet as well as anyone, I can see their potential.... this is just the first time Ive gotten them to work out well, and Im not sure it wasnt just a quirk. ALot of quirks happen in my games..... And yes, a landraider crusader seems a great way to go... but thats a 500 point unit! Anyone else have any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Oh I can read the stat sheet as well as anyone, I can see their potential.... this is just the first time Ive gotten them to work out well, and Im not sure it wasnt just a quirk. ALot of quirks happen in my games..... And yes, a landraider crusader seems a great way to go... but thats a 500 point unit! Anyone else have any ideas? En masses with lots of PA is what I hear is pretty good... and if you don't want to do the cheezy mix and match squads to get 4+ cover for all, just run a long squad in the front, spaced out 2" in a long line (that's what, about a 36" line of PA?... I would measure it out but it's dinner time) then give them a rune priest, and walk down the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 15 guys.... 2" apart... reasonably thats 36". If you were EVER so careful.... 41 inches more or less as a base is ~ 1 inch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 15 guys.... 2" apart... reasonably thats 36". If you were EVER so careful.... 41 inches more or less as a base is ~ 1 inch. If you wanted to be exact... but you likely will NEVER get even 38" let alone 41"... it's just not likely, but 36 is really do-able and covers a LOT of the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastHuzzah Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 My view may be a bit skewed because I've always done mech. I am looking into drop pods, but haven't had a chance to try them yet. If you are looking for a cheaper unit, you could always go 9 BC (2 pfists, flamer) and a WGPL (Pfist, BP, WP, maybe some meltabombs) in a rhino, I think the whole crew comes to 255 pts ('dex isn't in front of me). Transports are much more viable now, yes they still have paper thin armor; but there are no longer three vehicle charts to roll on. Ordinance shots can no longer wipe out an entire squad on a 6. If the transport explodes, you still take wounds on 4+ but marines wear power armor for a reason (on a bad roll you might lose 3 models). For pinning tests, the BC's LD of 8 is nothing to write home about. This, however is where the pack leader comes in, boosting their LD to 9. In the event that there are juicier targets for Anti-armor fire to go after, you have some wonderful mobile cover in the form of the Rhino once the BCs are out and being enthusiastic about melee combat. On the negative, a destroyed transport does cost you a KP, but I have often found that once transports are immobilized/otherwise rendered ineffective many people go after actual squads. No one likes a bunch of CC Space Wolves in their face (which can often happen on turn 2). Combine this with a pod or two dropping behind their lines, and your opponent will have many difficult choices. -Huzzah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I believe it has 16 spaces in their. But i would also suggest taking the Runepriest. Stormcaller lets you strike first and thet helps greatly. As Huzzah said you don't strike first when you charge, as the codex says when you receive a charge and then you look to the BBB and that whole mess and it's just terrible since nothing really happens for them just that they get a cover save. :) Link it to me and i believe it until then i'll go by what the codex says. BTW: i have this Errata and no mention of Stormcaller being changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Link it to me and i believe it until then i'll go by what the codex says. BTW: i have this Errata and no mention of Stormcaller being changed. http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=200808081038138251copykx9.jpg I'll send you the pdf -edit- As for the FAQ, why would it make mention to the change in the codex that happened years and years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I know people use Drop pods and Landraiders but I still swear by my trusty Rhino's, My land raiders always get taken out by one lucky lascannon shot in turn one so i prefer the humble rhino as when that blows i dont mind so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WG Vrox Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Other than the LRC, your best bet is 11 of them in a Drop Pod with a RP. If there is a scatter issue do a Run toward the enemy instead of shooting. Same idea but 10 BC a PL and RP with a SS, so they can eat up a no save hits. If you want to use 15BC have no transport and "Run" them down the field, put the RP on a bike so he can move 12" and still cast Storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 Link it to me and i believe it until then i'll go by what the codex says. BTW: i have this Errata and no mention of Stormcaller being changed. http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=200808081038138251copykx9.jpg I'll send you the pdf -edit- As for the FAQ, why would it make mention to the change in the codex that happened years and years ago? 1) Not everyone knows the Codex has an updated version.... they look almost identical. 2) On last page of the painting section, in the updated version at the bottom of the page it mentions using stormcaller to hit first. Not a rule per se, but a damn strong hint they should have removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. A. K. Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I always use a Rune Priest in my lists to allow my BCs to go first. Whereas the old rule made you go first in close combat, that was due to the similarity of: not being charged; but, charging into difficult terrain w/o frag gren, hense they went first. I've recieved no complaints when I still use that logic to drop the target unit I charged's Int to 1 as if they had charged me w/o frag gren. As the only power available to the rune priest, to nerf him that bad is to screw a guy who still was never that great, but good enough. Maybe if you could pick a different power, but you can't, so forget all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Stormcaller doesnt allow you to go first on the charge. Thus, Rune Priests are next to useless for the points you spend on them. Buy a WGBL with an AC and be done with it. :rolleyes: I always have my BC in the open. As long as about half of a 15-man squad can make it into contact, we are golden. I just recently purchased another box of them to bulk up a second BC pack to 15 models. Rinse, wash, repeat. Make that last surviving BC a Wolf Guard anyway. Just because he was out of the fight doesnt mean he didnt survive. They probably found him later, clinging to life, with the remains of all the orks he slew piled up around him. My best models are guys like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I think the wrong part starts when you guys write "so I have this one squad of BC and they get shot up" . Well I dont see many lists run 1 BC unit . But I see more then a few runing 3 or 4 [and people are bitching how they are forced to take the GH etc]. BC are just awesome in the assault . Hard to kill[i mean the number not the single BC] and hiting back with tons of attacks . + each of those BC units can be led by a SW IC . + with so many larg units numbers one can give each unit in the army a +4 cover save . They are awesome . One of the few armies that can actually play footslogger in the 5th . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I have used Blood Claws in a LRC for a long time now. The unit in total, when backed up by a Pack Leader and Wolf Priest comes to just over 600 points, and rarely makes its points back in sheer kills. What it often does, however is absorb a huge amount of enemy fire and create a massive distraction for the foe - it is one of those units to be killled or avoided. This in itself is a valuable purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 well today i witnessed BC doing very well. it was a 1250 point battle SW Vs. Orks. both players were new to the game and i was the their rules person, with another guy. SW: WL: TDA, Combi melta, FW 6 WGBG: TDA, 5x PF, PW, AssC, 5x SB WP: PP Dred: MM, SB 8 GH: Flamer, bolters, 2x PW -WGPL: Bolter, PW 15 BC: 2x PW, PF -WGPL: Combie-melta, PW vindicator: orks: warboss warboss (smaller boss???) Nobz gretchen Boyz boyz deffchoptas deffchoptas it looked kinda bleak for the wolfs, but he did well. he kinda sat back and let the orks come to him. took out the deffchoptas in turn 2, and the gretchen were gone as well, thanks to the BCs that charged in and destroyed them. then a failed WAAHHH!!!! put the Big warboss and some boyz in CC but no other group made it. the BC and GH cleaned them up and the termies shoot up the Nobz and other boss. the store had been closed for 2 hours at this point and we decided to go. but it was clear that the wolves won with kill points at 5(SW) to 0(orks). yeah i know the first group was gretchen, but the boyz and boss was pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrubb Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Buy a WGBL with an AC and be done with it. :) Since when were ICs allowed heavy weapons? Or does AC mean something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Buy a WGBL with an AC and be done with it. :) Since when were ICs allowed heavy weapons? Or does AC mean something else? See the actual SW FAQ from GW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother SRM Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 I often run 2 BC squads with 15 men and a WGL each. They usually get shot to pieces, and if they don't they end up taking obscene casualties in hand to hand combat. However, they usually manage to tear up any sort of infantry squads rather easily. Against Orks it's really nice to have that many attacks, and against guard it's a guaranteed win once you hit their lines - or at least a guaranteed pile of guard corpses. My Blood Claws almost always end up dead. They typically tie something big up for a few turns or mess some guys up real bad. Last game, one squad managed to shoot a dreadnought with a melta gun and miss, then get killed by shooting. The other squad tied a squad of terminators up, killed 3 of them, and were wiped. In all honesty, that's kind of terrible. Almost 600 points down the drain, only to kill 3 terminators and delay the inevitable assault of the enemy... I really need to build that crusader. These Blood Claws are just getting annihilated since I footslog them. Perhaps just one squad with a crusader would work out well, that way I'm not spending quite so many points... Forgive me for rambling, I'm rather tired. In conclusion: Blood Claws + LRC = Success. Blood Claws - LRC = Dead Blood Claws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.