Mystic against Drop Pods

[Hinti]

Hi out there!!

 

Since i've play the first time against DropPods on Thuesday Here's the Thread........There is still a Question left for me.

 

I have a Mystic in the Retinue og my Lord Inquisito, so I benefit from his rules in Terms of Shocktroops/DropPods, everything clear so far...

But here's the Question:

On wich Unit i will/haveto shoot?

1. On the DropPod whes he's in the "Air"?

2. On the DropPod when he's on the Table?

3. On the Troops wich disembark?

 

 

Hinti

[Grand Master Tyrak]

The Retinue gets a free shooting round at every unit that enters play within 4d6" of the Inquisitor. This could be interpreted to mean you get one round of shooting at the Pod, and one at the unit. I would house rule this, just say you shoot at the unit for one round, another at the landed Pod, and nothing to do with the Pod still in the air. Unless you want to do complicated house rules for shooting down Drop Pods.

[Gentlemanloser]

The DH/WH FAQ clears this up.

 

You get to shoot (if the Mystics make a sucessful roll of course) after the Drop Pod has landed and the Squad disembarks.

 

You can choose to shoot either the Squad, or the DP.

 

For me, the only thing not covered now is the new Combat Squad rules. Who do you get to shoot if the SM squad comes out of the DP in two combat squads?

[number6]

For me, the only thing not covered now is the new Combat Squad rules. Who do you get to shoot if the SM squad comes out of the DP in two combat squads?

 

There's nothing to clear up here. Combat squads are treated as separate units for all intents and purposes. Combined with the FAQ ruling, it's pretty clear that you'll have to choose what to shoot at: pod, combat squad A, or combat squad B. You won't be allowed to shoot at all three, or any two of them. Just one.

[Gentlemanloser]

That's how I'd rule it as well.

 

But then, do they count as two distinct units for deeptriking? Would your Mystcis get to roll twice?

 

Or is it an oversight that effectively lets Marines make 1/2 a Squad immune to Mystic DS retaliation.

 

As if DSing in a Pod a Squad of Sternguard wasn't uber enough...

[revnow]

You have to declare the choice of which unit you would like to shoot at, and then roll for the range.

[Gentlemanloser]

Does a Drop Podded Unit that's split into Combat Squads on disembarkation count at one or two units?

[Hinti]

As far as i Know as two...........

But isn't it so, that the Squad is split up in HIS Movement Turn? In case yes, then I dont mind. Because my Option to Fire at this Unit is an Exception to the "normal" Turn Routine.....

What I mean is:

He DP's, means he hast to roll the Dice, then do his ShockStuff, then I Roll my 4D6 and if I see him I can Fire. After that shootig, he's maybe forced to retreat or else. THAN beginns his Movement Phase. There is somthing about that in the DH Codex in the Profile of the Mystic I mean (I'm @work). If I'm wrong forget that..... :)

 

Hinti

[Cedric]

The pod itself is in all respects a separate unit in 5th ed.

The FAQ states that the mystic's squad may fire at the pod or the unit disembarking.

 

Following this logic and applying it to SM combat squads disembarking from a pod, I find it reasonable that the mystic gets to chose either the pod, combat squad A or combat squad B to shoot at.

[Hinti]

But isn't it so, that the Squad is split up in HIS Movement Turn?

Well I think, it's all about that. WHEN is the SM Player allowed to split up his Squad? When they arrive (this is in my Opinion NOT in his Movement Phase, it's BEFORE), or in his Movement Phase?

If the first is right, then I con shoot @the Pod or @the entire Squad......when not, where all screwed again by the new SM Codex. :) <_< <_<

[Gentlemanloser]

You split when you delpoy, or disembark from a Drop Pod.

 

If they're two seperate units (all be it with a single 'transport'), do they then class as two deep striking units, so your mystics roll for each?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

By the FAQ and the actual rule for Mystics in the DH codex, I would say the Marine player doesn't get to combat squad the unit. It's worked out like so;

 

1. Drop pod lands at final position (ie after scatter)

2. You roll 4D6 for spotting distance

3. Unit inside drop pod disembarks. They are not allowed to do anything else until you have resolved the Mystics+shooting (combat squad, shoot, Run)

4. If spotted by the Mystics, you choose between drop pod or the unit it was transporting

5. Resolve shooting (ie check LOS, measure range, roll to hit, roll to wound etc)

6. Survivors may then combat squad, shoot, run etc

[Toogeloo]

That's how I'd rule it as well.

 

But then, do they count as two distinct units for deeptriking? Would your Mystcis get to roll twice?

 

Or is it an oversight that effectively lets Marines make 1/2 a Squad immune to Mystic DS retaliation.

 

As if DSing in a Pod a Squad of Sternguard wasn't uber enough...

Deep Striking happens before the movement phase, and a Drop Pod with 2 (future) combat squads is still one entity. The breakage happens after the deepstrike is concluded and disembarkment is resolved.

[Hinti]

I think Reclusiarch Darius is right.......that makes sense. Anyone else?

 

Anyway DP Units=Reserve can't split..........as said in the DA Codex? :tu: ;) ;) :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:

[Gentlemanloser]

That's how I'd rule it as well.

 

But then, do they count as two distinct units for deeptriking? Would your Mystcis get to roll twice?

 

Or is it an oversight that effectively lets Marines make 1/2 a Squad immune to Mystic DS retaliation.

 

As if DSing in a Pod a Squad of Sternguard wasn't uber enough...

Deep Striking happens before the movement phase, and a Drop Pod with 2 (future) combat squads is still one entity. The breakage happens after the deepstrike is concluded and disembarkment is resolved.

 

Does the breakage happen before or after the Mystics free shot? And why?

 

Anyway DP Units=Reserve can't split..........as said in the DA Codex?

 

The New Marine 'Dex allows you to spit into combat Squads after disembarking from a Drop Pod.

[Toogeloo]

Well, I happen to disagree with Darius only because if a unit is going to fire at the Squad it needs to see it. In order to see it, it must be disembarked and therefore it must already be combat squaded. Just because it was spotted by the Mystics doesn't mean you have to disembark all together. There is no reason that if you intend to break the squad up into two separate squads that you can't put 5 on one side of the Drop Pod and 5 on the other and as such are immediately two separate identities. The idea of the Mystics "interrupting" a disembark doesn't make sense, and the disembark needs to be resolved before shooting occurs which means that the squad has successfully combat squaded and is two separate entities as the time to combat squad happens simultaneously with the disembark.

[Hinti]

The New Marine 'Dex allows you to spit into combat Squads after disembarking from a Drop Pod.

Screwed again by the nex SM-Dex.....I'm starting to hate it.......

[the jeske]

why not counts as with i? I seen nids , necron , chaos , GK and sob armies played with sm-dex rules . in all version superior to the real codex.

[Inquisitor_Hassan]

The Retinue gets a free shooting round at every unit that enters play within 4d6" of the Inquisitor. This could be interpreted to mean you get one round of shooting at the Pod, and one at the unit. I would house rule this, just say you shoot at the unit for one round, another at the landed Pod, and nothing to do with the Pod still in the air. Unless you want to do complicated house rules for shooting down Drop Pods.

 

The FAQ says as GM Tyrak says: (There are two questions relating to Mystics)

 

Q. Can you clarify how Mystics work?
A. Mystics allow you to take a free shot at each summoned pack of Daemons or unit that Deep Stikes within 4D6" fo the Inquisitor

Q. Do Inquisitorial Mystics allow "free shots" at units arriving by Drop Pod?
A. Yes. the shooting is resolved after the Drop Pod lands and the passengers have disembarked. Either the Droop Pod or the diembarked unit may be the targeted, but not both

 

From the first FAQ it says that the a free shot at each unit that deep strikes. To me that reads that if 20 units deep strike within 4D6" of the =I= he (or another unit of his choosing may, if you have 2 x mystics) shoot at 20 units. The wording is 'each unit'.

 

Now the second only clarifies that when a unit DPs in, you need to choose bewtween the unit (split or not, pending on other factors like LOS etc) or the DP. The first FAQ means that it matters not if the unit is combat squaded or not/

 

Meh, that is how I read it, and still do after the comments here so far. Feel free to stone me, if I am way off.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The point I made before was that the Mystic shooting is resolved right after they disembark, ahead of anything else (combat squadding, shooting, running).

[Inquisitor_Hassan]

The point I made before was that the Mystic shooting is resolved right after they disembark, ahead of anything else (combat squadding, shooting, running).

 

Agreed, once the DP lands they must immediately disembark, mystic unit shoots at the SM unit or the DP unit. If any are left, they can then go combat squading.

 

However, even if an opponent believes he can Combat Squad first it doesn't matter - each DS unit can be shot at if within 4d6.

 

WIN-WIN for DH :D

[Gentlemanloser]

Isn't the act of combat squadding part of the dismounting? (As the rule states you decide to split into a combat Sqaud as you disembark)

 

I'd still rule that as part of the disembarkation, you Combat squad. But now that there are two distinct units that have Deep Struck, shouldn't the Mystics get the chance (as quote above) to roll for both distinct units?

 

Or has the new SM dex snuck in a way for the uber gross Sternguard + Lysander in a Drop Pod to effectively make 1/2 the unit immune to Mystic retaliation.

 

I'm leaning to the latter, which is for me just another /sigh about the new 'Dex and the state of 40K atm.

 

Until you've faced a couple of Podding Sternguard units, you really don't appreciate how utterly gross and devastating, and now seemingly uncounterable they are.

[number6]

Isn't the act of combat squadding part of the dismounting? (As the rule states you decide to split into a combat Sqaud as you disembark)

 

I'd still rule that as part of the disembarkation, you Combat squad.

You can't separate the act of disembarking from the creation of combat squads. The models disembark from the pod as their independent combat squads. You don't open the pod up, place all ten models outside the pod, and then move (or at least demark/indicate) them into two separate units. There aren't three steps here to process. There are just two.

 

1. Place the pod.

2. Place the combat squads.

 

There is no step in this process for the mystic to interrupt. The DH FAQ clearly states that the shots are taken only after disembarkation, and at that point, you have two infantry units and one pod: three separate targets.

 

The DH FAQ also states that the mystically enhanced unit must choose between the pod and the disembarked unit. "Unit" in the singular. Doesn't matter that there are actually two distinct infantry units that have disembarked, you get to choose just one to shoot at. Them's the breaks.

 

But now that there are two distinct units that have Deep Struck, shouldn't the Mystics get the chance (as quote above) to roll for both distinct units?

 

As I pointed out above, no.

 

Or has the new SM dex snuck in a way for the uber gross Sternguard + Lysander in a Drop Pod to effectively make 1/2 the unit immune to Mystic retaliation.

 

Yep.

[Toogeloo]

I think #6 clarified what I was trying to illustrate a few posts up. We are seeing eye to eye on this issue that you cannot interrupt a Disembarking from a Drop Pod. Don't forget that a squad isn't forced to disembark together if Combat Squading and you can have something similar to this setup:

 

(X - squad 1, Y - Squad 2, Z - Enemy units)

 

......./----\

Y Y [------]XXX...................ZZZZZ

YYY[------]X X.....................ZZZZZ

......\-----/

[benmothershaw]

Q. Do Inquisitorial Mystics allow "free shots" at units arriving by Drop Pod?

Looking at the question point of view, the word 'units' is used (suggesting more than one unit), and then the answer is, yes. etc etc.

 

To support this further. "(roll when each unit enters play)" They haven't 'entered play' until they have disembarked.

 

It's a stab in the dark this one...