what would you like to see in the next codex

[Fury_of_Fenris]

this is a question ive been curious to ask what does everyone want in the next codex well for starters ill write down what id like to see

 

1. cheaper weapon upgrades eg. 10 for plasma cheaper uprgrade for champion, and the ability to have smaller sqauds with the same amount of weapons as chaos arent as organised as their goody cousins

 

2. cheaper upgraded heroes eg. hurons half machine so i reckon toughness 5 would be grreat for him.( not the nurgle toughness though)

 

3. more options such as land raider variants veterans instead of chosen so sort of like sterngaurd and vangaurd. except they still have all the options and can still infiltrater AKA two attacks i mean come on there vets of thousands of years of war why shouldnt they be better

 

4. DROP PODS!! i mean for an assault based army that CAN use drop pods as they still have them so they can bring the fight to the enemy without driving a million rhinos

 

well theres just a couple of things id love to see in the next codex theyll do in the next 4 or so years if hey can be bothere to get around to it so my qeustions is wat would yous want to see?

[Cornelias]

this is a question ive been curious to ask what does everyone want in the next codex well for starters ill write down what id like to see

 

1. cheaper weapon upgrades eg. 10 for plasma cheaper uprgrade for champion, and the ability to have smaller sqauds with the same amount of weapons as chaos arent as organised as their goody cousins

 

2. cheaper upgraded heroes eg. hurons half machine so i reckon toughness 5 would be grreat for him.( not the nurgle toughness though)

 

3. more options such as land raider variants veterans instead of chosen so sort of like sterngaurd and vangaurd. except they still have all the options and can still infiltrater AKA two attacks i mean come on there vets of thousands of years of war why shouldnt they be better

 

4. DROP PODS!! i mean for an assault based army that CAN use drop pods as they still have them so they can bring the fight to the enemy without driving a million rhinos

 

well theres just a couple of things id love to see in the next codex theyll do in the next 4 or so years if hey can be bothere to get around to it so my qeustions is wat would yous want to see?

 

all of the above can be done already if you just proxy with the Codex Space Marines :P

[Archnomad]

If they kept uber grit. Lost the Iron warriors cheese, kept oblits as heavies, had the new chosen weapon options, new termy options, but had chosen as an honour guard (along with chosen termies). Along with our new cults and psychic powers.

 

Copy past 3.5 into the new books cover.

 

Awaaaayyyy!!!!!

[Askari]

Sounds like you want a loyalist codex with the strengths of chaos and loyalists.

 

1. Ok I can understand the cheaper weapons but there's no reason to lower the price of champs. they're reasonably priced for what they do. We shouldn't have the ability to take two specials in squads smaller than 10 since that's what plague marines, chosen, havoks, termies, oblits, etc. are for. It would be nice to be able to take more than two weapons in full sized squads ie.20 man squads but that would make havoks pointless.

But the icons of nurgle and tzeentch should be just 5 points more than the icon of slaanesh except on bikes where they should be about 35-40 points.

 

2. Huron doesn't need T5 and there's no justification for it. Most of our special characters are reasonably priced so this really isn't needed. But I do think we should get cheaper powers for sorcerors since loyalists get two for free! Maybe give hem an ability that can nullify things like psychic hoods.

 

3. Chosen are our veterans and they have a bolt pistol and ccw so they already have the same number of attacks as sternguard. If you want them to have two attacks give them icon of Khorne. right now they're nice and cheap and very useful, if they were given 2 attacks they'd probably cost 25 points or more per model before upgrades and that would just make them worse. If it ain't broke don't break it.

I don't think we need the land raider variants but I do think that our raider should be about 20 points cheaper and have a transport capacity of 12 models. And the machine spirit ability.

 

4. Yeah we should have drop pods too.

[CelestialSon]

Change nothing. CSM are better now than they've ever been

[Soul Hunter]

Change nothing. CSM are better now than they've ever been

 

Silence, loyalist scum!

 

Actually on a serious note, we're in good shape mechanically except for some agonising rules re: things like dreadnaughts. But flavour-wise? Change everything. CSM have never felt so bland on the battlefield. When you're using "counts as" from C:SM to justify a slightly more fluffy version than your own codex can allow, then there's a serious problem.

 

Additionally, some balance issues from way back when simply don't make sense with the lore. F'rex, Chaos Space Marines don't have Apothecaries, Techmarines, servitors and drop-pods because of... because... Well, because why? Did every drop pod in the entire Traitor Legions just stop working the moment they parked in the Eye of Terror? Do all Chaos Dreadnaughts stay sleepy forever because there are no Techmarines and servitors to wake them up? It's a lengthy, arcane, complex process to rouse a Dreadnaught. You don't just run downstairs into the ship's hold and yell at the damn thing until it wakes up and complains about needing "just five more minutes, guys." And what about if a tank breaks down? Do they leave it on the battlefield in the hopes that in the next battle Khorne will pay the points to have it Daemonically Possessed? They don't fix it? Seriously?

 

I appreciate that the loyalists and the traitors need to be mechanically different to preserve some variety in the game. But seriously, I'd like some drop-pods, GW. When the rules are wildly divergent from the fluff, I regard that as an extreme failure on the parts of the rules designers. And the current C:CSM makes fielding fluffy Legion armies (and renegade Chapters alike) an absolute nightmare.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

I'm not going to quibble much about points costs, but there are a few things I'd like to see.

 

1. Marking/dedication. Different levels of it. The ability to do the Icon thing, but also to turn a unit type into a full-blown cult unit (Berzerkers, Rubrics, etc)- vehicles too. I suppose full-blown Cult non-Rubric warriors of Tzeentch could have Sorcerer Champs and 4+ Invulns.

 

2. Legion tactics. This is like Chapter Tactics, but representing the tactics of Legions. A Chaos Lord, Sorcerer, or Daemon Prince can take X tactic at Y points, gives army Z benefit.

 

3. Less 'CRAZYRANDOMFUN' (read: ;) ) rules. Possessed, Dreads, and Bloodfeeders in particular.

 

4. Daemon variety. I'd like to see the ability to 'mark' Daemons to some tiny extent (+1 A, +1 I, etc) for a set points cost, and say they aren't their full-blown selves from C: CD for the reasons given in C: CSM. I'd also like to see an option for flying/beast Daemons in Fast Attack.

 

5. 0-1 on Princes- they did it to Summoned Greaters, after all. Make them 'Unique' as per special characters.

 

6. Speaking of them, give the Specials a benefit from the Legion tactics idea above.

 

7. Throw out the idea that the list is to represent renegades and Legions. It should be primarily to represent Legions (just like C:SM represents Ultramarines, hurr hurr durr). If renegades want to use it, they can. Or they can be SM. Or they can use Apocalypse and mix. But no more renegadification of the CSM Codex.

 

8. Fix Lash, more powers.

 

9. Either lower the base cost of Sorc/Lords or up that of the Princes.

 

10. Fix transport capacities and wargear differentials (all SM Codices).

 

11. Lower Bikers' base cost. And Spawn, if they insist on making them crap. At least give them an Invuln!

 

12. Preds are pretty high in cost, comparatively.

 

13. Defiler should be able to dump Battle Cannon for better armor, maybe?

 

14. Daemonic Engine of some sort for Fast Attack.

 

15. Land Raider should get some sort of boost or points drop.

 

16. Maybe, maybe, and maybe Drop Pods (Dreadclaws).

 

17. Gief moar Malal.

 

EDIT:

 

18. Lost and the Damned! That bears repeating. Lost and the Damned!

 

19. Lightning Claws on Champs.

 

20. Wings on Greater Daemons. Or Beast movement.

 

This would preserve the fundamental mechanical difference of Chaos while reconciling their weaknesses, solidifying their focus (Legions, dammit all to hell), and hopefully bringing them in line with the current line of Codices, which CSM were but now are not.

[northoceanbeach]

Q: WHat would you like to see in the new codex?

 

A: A printing of the 3.5 codex.

[Zeruel]

Here's what I'd like to see most

 

1. Chosen with stats that isn't just Marines who can infiltrate. You would think in a Chaos warband the chosen warriors would be more than just regular old chaos marine who are sneaky.

 

2. Old crazed rules for dreadnoughts. Shoot the closest enemy unit or closest friendly if no enemy is in line of sight.

 

3. Cheaper Icons and ability to mark unit instead but costs more.

 

4. Make the choice between Princes, Lords and Sorcerers much less of a no brainer. Princes all over the place is kind of boring.

 

5. Maybe make a cheap HQ option for smaller games. Something like the old Lieutenant.

 

6. Make Daemon Princes 0-1.

 

7. Give Spawn feel no pain, maybe drop them a couple points.

 

8. Make the choice between Obliterators and Havoc less no brainer.

 

9. Make Bikers a little cheaper or a bit better.

 

10. Bring back veteran skills, it really set us apart from marines and made us fell like warriors who have been fighting for 10000 years.

 

11. Keep lesser and greater Daemons but give them a few more options. Let them take marks and maybe let greaters take one psychic power (not Khorne of course). Don't need separate daemon entries I'm fine with that but let us pay points to give lessers wings (for furies), mark khorne for +1 attack, mark slaanesh for +1 initiative etc. Have mark of Tzeentch and Khorne come with wings for greaters.

 

12. More options for champions. Lightning claws would be cool.

 

13. Follow space marines example and include special characters for each legion that gives your army a trait of some kind. Alpha Legion guy can take a squad with him and outflank, Night Lords guy makes Raptors troops, Iron Warriors guy gives squad he's with tank hunters and gives fortification thing like techmarines and so on...

 

14. Fix Possessed. Make them a little more predictable and all around more useful.

 

15. Gives us dreadclaws as a transport option.

 

16. More psychic powers and make Tzeentch ones more powerful and less bland cross between a lascannon and multi-melta.

 

17. Some form of psychic defense, even if it's Tzeentch only.

[Sheff]

4. Daemon variety. I'd like to see the ability to 'mark' Daemons to some tiny extent (+1 A, +1 I, etc) for a set points cost, and say they aren't their full-blown selves from C: CD for the reasons given in C: CSM. I'd also like to see an option for flying/beast Daemons in Fast Attack.

 

11. Lower Bikers' base cost. And Spawn, if they insist on making them crap. At least give them an Invuln!

 

I definitely agree with the above two, back in 3.5 there were lots of options for fast attack, now there's 2 (spawn really don't count). I'd love to see spawn either have a 5+ invulnerable, or perhaps the ability to infiltrate or even a -ve ld modifier to models who have line of sight!

[the jeske]

Change nothing. CSM are better now than they've ever been

 

lol . you didnt play a lot against the 4th ed dex didnt you <_<

 

 

dont change the dex , unless you plan to change all other dexs .

[Lay]

- Proper daemons

- Proper armoury and gifts

- HQ oriented mark system

- Allow only one DP/Chaos Lord

- Retinue

 

Put this in and we have the 3.0 Codex back. Start real improvements from here.

[CelestialSon]

lol . you didnt play a lot against the 4th ed dex didnt you

 

Actually, played tons of games with and against the latest codex. I overstate my love of the CSM codex a bit (BTW have a 2k Sons of Horus army i'll be posting soon), but i still love the direction it is moving in. I actually wasn't even a fan of CSMs until the most recent codex came out, and i've been playing RTTs for over a decade.

 

I have to disagree with every statement concerning legion specifics, expanding daemons and reprinting 3.5. Personally i am glad to see 3.5 go, but terribly upset that it also took LatD with it... as well as those of you you can't get over it.

 

Legion specific junk builds are what kills the fluff, not expands it. Iron Warrior builds, for example didn't have an emphasis on heavy support, it had an over emphasis on heavy support without drawback outside comp scores in tournaments, which is an entirely relative issue. While i join the collective mourning for Alpha Legion cult armies, which i think were kinda cool, i don't miss an all infiltrating CSM army and an all IG light infantry army deciding the game with whether or not the IG player got to stretch his infiltating platoons so thin that the alpha legion player can't deploy on the field. True story, but moot with outflank.

 

The problem with any deviation from the codex, standard build option is the danger of over/under emphasis. GW has in very few cases found the balance of where having extra access to units and equipment doesn't exceed the penalty of making that choice. Until GW has open beta testing of all their products, does true R&D (thank you, 1st 'Ard Boyz tournament...) then i will relent my stance on legion specific builds. I wish the codex was a little more liberal with options as to how you define Alpha Legion from Night Lords from Thousand Sons, but it's dangerous territory and a slippery slope GW has not handled well in the past.

 

As for daemons, keep dreaming. If there's an incentive to have god specific daemons then you have an incentive to not play chaos daemons. This is GW after all.

 

The direction of not-as-good-as-loyalists, but cheaper and gritier is a good direction in my book. Chaos equipment is supposed to be below SM standards by nature of the passage of time, the support structures of the SM chapters and the daemonic element to bridge the gap. There's no arguement that SMs now have more glitz and glam to them, more shiny one trick ponies like sternguard, but for YEARS the opposite was true. I'm glad they clamped down on CSMs and made them less daemonic, less over the top with their armory choices and other than spawn have few units that are just not usable.

[Soul Hunter]

Legion specific junk builds are what kills the fluff, not expands it. Iron Warrior builds, for example didn't have an emphasis on heavy support, it had an over emphasis on heavy support without drawback outside comp scores in tournaments... etc.

 

No, not really. Badly-designed Legion-specific "junk" builds are not what people want. People just want to be able to field an army that resembles the fluff without needing to use another codex to fake it slightly better. There's nothing in that entirely reasonable desire that requires imbalance or unfairness. Codex: Space Marines represents the majority of Marine Chapters extremely well. Why doesn't Codex: Chaos Space Marines do the same for the majority of Chaos Space Marines? Specific Chapterdexes will be released for specific Chapters. Legiondexes are required just as much, as the rules variations are just as significant, if not more so.

 

There's really no argument against that. I mean, I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the old rules for this individuality, but just because they sucked doesn't mean there shouldn't be new ones that actually work. Would you argue against Chapterdexes and the customisation and individuality they allow because you don't like the thought of the Blood Angels and Space Wolves having their own rules? No, of course not. If everything is balanced, everything's fine. And asking for a balanced set of rules that accurately portrays the armies isn't really too much to ask for.

[Night Stalker]

1. Drop Pods.

 

2. Nerf Daemon Princes [they should be about Codex: Daemons level powerwise and pricewise]

 

3. Make Daemon Weapons bit more reliable and more customizable [say +d6 attack always, like in current dex, but second ability could be chosen][if you roll 1, take a wound with only inv allowed, but you still have 4/5 attacks without power weapon status.

 

4. Cheaper Champion upgrades and more expensive power fists. or make champions WS5 W2 and increase their cost.

 

5. Give every unit option to buy bikes or jump packs! Yeah, it mean you could have biker troops.

 

6. Fix Sorcerer/Lord/DP power level to make every option viable.

 

7. Nerf Oblits. for one, change their weapon - take away lascannons! decrease their point cost.

 

8. Re-do psychic powers, and make them comparable in power - then allow sorcerer to take two. also decrease sorcerer stats - he is support character.

 

9. Fix Possessed.

 

10. Fix Dreadnought.

 

11. Fix Spawn.

 

12. Fix Chosen.

 

13. Nerf berzerkers and plague marines. make them also cheaper

 

14. Make new Marks of Chaos

 

Well, it's not all changes. Just the ones i remember :> check my sig for more ideas.

[Night Stalker]

Sounds like you want a loyalist codex with the strengths of chaos and loyalists.

 

1. Ok I can understand the cheaper weapons but there's no reason to lower the price of champs. they're reasonably priced for what they do. We shouldn't have the ability to take two specials in squads smaller than 10 since that's what plague marines, chosen, havoks, termies, oblits, etc. are for. It would be nice to be able to take more than two weapons in full sized squads ie.20 man squads but that would make havoks pointless.

But the icons of nurgle and tzeentch should be just 5 points more than the icon of slaanesh except on bikes where they should be about 35-40 points.

 

Cost of Plasma Gun if fine. Plasma pistol need point decrease.

Also, champions are overpriced right now.

You're right about special weapon numbers - smaller squads should not be treated as special weapon spam squads. Icons need complete re-work - current system is horrible.

 

2. Huron doesn't need T5 and there's no justification for it. Most of our special characters are reasonably priced so this really isn't needed. But I do think we should get cheaper powers for sorcerors since loyalists get two for free! Maybe give hem an ability that can nullify things like psychic hoods.

 

Huron doesnt need T5. In this book special characters are reasonably priced - that is one of few big + for the authors. new books are pushing special characters.

I think that choose two powers included in cost is the way to go for chaos sorcerers.

 

3. Chosen are our veterans and they have a bolt pistol and ccw so they already have the same number of attacks as sternguard. If you want them to have two attacks give them icon of Khorne. right now they're nice and cheap and very useful, if they were given 2 attacks they'd probably cost 25 points or more per model before upgrades and that would just make them worse. If it ain't broke don't break it.

I don't think we need the land raider variants but I do think that our raider should be about 20 points cheaper and have a transport capacity of 12 models. And the machine spirit ability.

 

2A base and loss of infiltrate seems the way to go - 20 points for basic squad member would be in line with GW pricing. I'll rename them chaos veterans.

Marks of Chaos need a re-work, they might be different in next codex.

Land Rider is mostly fine - yeah, it need 12 TC, but cost seems fine to me.

 

4. Yeah we should have drop pods too.

 

 

true. we should have them

 

my comments are red.

[ChaosInCommorragh]

my suggestions:

 

1) 0-1 deamon princes

 

2) make lash a single d6

 

3) 2 base attacks for chosen, keep infiltrate, raise points to 20 per model

 

4) legion tactics: special characters bringing about special rules (similar to chapter tactics in C:SM)

 

5) marks of chaos on lesser daemons and greater daemons, option for wings on greater daemon - remove lesser daemons ability to count as troop choices, greater daemon not using anything in the FOC

 

6) 2 levels of chaos lord - the best one being a 3 wound, base t5, ws 6

- the lower class being 3 wound base t4 ws 5

 

7) more psychic powers for free (depending on mark) and maybe 2 levels of sorcerers as in C:SM

 

8) twin lightning claws on champions

 

9) increased LR capacity to 12

 

10) 0-1 oblits as heavy support, limiter taken off because of lord specific rule (legion tactics)

 

11) all daemon weapons give +1 strength

 

12) to give possessed marines a chosen special ability for a point cost

 

13) feel no pain to spawns, 5+ invulnerable, -Ld modifier, lower points.. one of these at least needs to be done

 

thats all i can think of right now

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

dont change the dex , unless you plan to change all other dexs .

 

And by 'other dexs' you mean 'other Codices in the same developmental paradigm/quagmire that CSM are in.' Which is... Dark Angels.

 

So yeah, sure. Change them too.

 

- Proper armoury and gifts

 

Pretty sure this one ain't coming back. But otherwise, sounds good.

 

Legion specific junk builds are what kills the fluff, not expands it. Iron Warrior builds, for example didn't have an emphasis on heavy support, it had an over emphasis on heavy support without drawback outside comp scores in tournaments, which is an entirely relative issue. While i join the collective mourning for Alpha Legion cult armies, which i think were kinda cool, i don't miss an all infiltrating CSM army and an all IG light infantry army deciding the game with whether or not the IG player got to stretch his infiltating platoons so thin that the alpha legion player can't deploy on the field.

 

Well, I think that a tiny boost in variety wouldn't hurt and if they did it right (key words here), we wouldn't end up with 3.5 round 2.

Forgot some things on my list.

 

Lost and the Damned! That bears repeating. Lost and the Damned!

 

Lightning Claws on Champs.

 

Wings on Greater Daemons. Or Beast movement.

[Jarulek]

What I like to see...

 

-Kor Phaeron as special character. Most Chaos Chars (Huron excluded) are HH-era captains, apthecaries or librarians. Abaddon and Typhus were first company captains. Khârn and Lucius were regular company captains. Ahriman was chief librarian and Fabius Bile was an (chief?) apothecary. Don't know if he should wear power or terminator armour since sources contradict. I read he was 1st company captain too, other sources say chaplain and BftA suggests he wore power armour. Maybe it'll come with an option for Termi armour. Also an "aura-effect". All the SM chars seem to have one, all chaos ones (Bile excluded) are just powerhouses.

 

-Not really the codex itself, but more to accompany the new codex: plastic power armoured chaos lord set with different options. Like power sword/axe, powerfist, lightning claw, somethign that resembles a crozius. Chest armour with writhing faces for example.

 

Those two options would make me alot happier at least.

 

EDIT: And what I_D said: LOST AND THE DAMNED DAMNIT!

[Dammeron]

- More options for Independent Characters, in particular the ability to take a LIMITED number of "Daemonic Gifts."

- An overall special rule similar to the "Eye of the Gods" rule found in the FB: Warriors of Chaos book.

- The ability to customise armies to represent particular legions or even specific renegade warbands via a points-based mechanism (i.e. a specified IC may purchase a VERY limited number of particular "rules" (similar to chapter tactics) that then apply to the whole army (these should also come with concurrent disadvantages or limitations).

- Daemon Princes should be made much more customisable, but also less of a "no brainer" in terms of their availability. There should also be a limitation of 0-1 Daemon Prince per army.

- Sorcerers desperately need something to distinguish them amongst the psykers of the 41st millennium. After all, the powers they wield are uniquely arcane and unpredictable in nature, being as they are tapped directly from the essence of Chaos itself. The current codex provides a handy possibility in terms of background: Daemonic Pacts.

- An expanded repertoir of psychic powers (possibly a "lore" for each chaos power with powers that evoke that particular power's ethos and aspects) and the utter doing away with "Lash of Submission."

- Something to distinguish certain Chaos units (e.g. raptors and Havics) from their Loyalist counterparts.

- More consideration of points cost, especially with regards to Marks/Icons of Chaos.

- A more elaborate system for the application of Chaos "marks" whereby certain units may be upgraded to cult-specific equivalents.

- More Daemon Engines.

- Customisable or at least God-specific Daemons and Greater Daemons.

 

-

[Utsujin]

I miss the old 3rd edition codex. it was full of flavor which is why i started chaos in the first place. Customization up the WAZOO. Now it's boring, and not fruitful. Plus I'm a loyal now.

 

I do miss the old crazed rules for dreadnaughts though. I think you should be able to customize your lords to almost demonhood like the old codex and not be a demon prince. Everything is too generic now.

[the jeske]

I miss the old 3rd edition codex.

;) please tell me your joking here , you really miss the 3ed codex ? I think your the first person i seen in 10 years who said something good about the 3ed dex .

[MuGGzy]

My biggest request would be to bring back the themed armies. The old if you use Special Character X as your HQ you are cult army Y and these special rulles apply and Unit Z will now count as troops. Blessed numbered troops gain a free champ, that type of thing. Because right now it just feels like the army has no character and people are encouraged to make "power lists", because after all, why NOT?

 

Otherwise, a Demon is a demon is a demon, the Lesser Demons should be the same stats as the Demon Codex has them. They use the same models after all.

 

Finally, Land Raiders/Rhinos etc should have the same stats across all the Marine Codexes. A SM Land Raider should not be able to carry more or less troops than a CSM Land Raider, they are all based off the same STC pattern afterall.

[CelestialSon]

Well, I think that a tiny boost in variety wouldn't hurt and if they did it right (key words here), we wouldn't end up with 3.5 round 2.

 

My point exactly. Wake me when they get it right

 

On a sunnier note, i'd actually like more emphasis on chaos space marines, rather than the daemonic stuff. I like things like possessed, or at least the idea of them. Outright daemons walking around seems to lessen the fun of playing chaos space marines, but that's an opinion no one has to agree with.

 

I would like to see maybe some new special characters instead of rehashed ones since 2nd ed. Chaos always runs that risk of being too fan boyish, but there's great fluff to back up where and why.

[Smurfalypse]

lol . you didnt play a lot against the 4th ed dex didnt you

 

Actually, played tons of games with and against the latest codex. I overstate my love of the CSM codex a bit (BTW have a 2k Sons of Horus army i'll be posting soon), but i still love the direction it is moving in. I actually wasn't even a fan of CSMs until the most recent codex came out, and i've been playing RTTs for over a decade.

 

I have to disagree with every statement concerning legion specifics, expanding daemons and reprinting 3.5. Personally i am glad to see 3.5 go, but terribly upset that it also took LatD with it... as well as those of you you can't get over it.

 

Legion specific junk builds are what kills the fluff, not expands it. Iron Warrior builds, for example didn't have an emphasis on heavy support, it had an over emphasis on heavy support without drawback outside comp scores in tournaments, which is an entirely relative issue. While i join the collective mourning for Alpha Legion cult armies, which i think were kinda cool, i don't miss an all infiltrating CSM army and an all IG light infantry army deciding the game with whether or not the IG player got to stretch his infiltating platoons so thin that the alpha legion player can't deploy on the field. True story, but moot with outflank.

 

The problem with any deviation from the codex, standard build option is the danger of over/under emphasis. GW has in very few cases found the balance of where having extra access to units and equipment doesn't exceed the penalty of making that choice. Until GW has open beta testing of all their products, does true R&D (thank you, 1st 'Ard Boyz tournament...) then i will relent my stance on legion specific builds. I wish the codex was a little more liberal with options as to how you define Alpha Legion from Night Lords from Thousand Sons, but it's dangerous territory and a slippery slope GW has not handled well in the past.

 

As for daemons, keep dreaming. If there's an incentive to have god specific daemons then you have an incentive to not play chaos daemons. This is GW after all.

 

The direction of not-as-good-as-loyalists, but cheaper and gritier is a good direction in my book. Chaos equipment is supposed to be below SM standards by nature of the passage of time, the support structures of the SM chapters and the daemonic element to bridge the gap. There's no arguement that SMs now have more glitz and glam to them, more shiny one trick ponies like sternguard, but for YEARS the opposite was true. I'm glad they clamped down on CSMs and made them less daemonic, less over the top with their armory choices and other than spawn have few units that are just not usable.

 

You kinda contridicted yourself toward the end there...You said that the daemonic essence of chaos bridged the gap of the glitz and glamour between CSM's and SM's...Then at the end you mention that you are glad they made them less daemonic....Not sure what you mean by all this. Anyhow not to turn this into another one of the million "ZOMG i hate my C:CSM" rants here is what i would want to see.

 

1/ I want more variety...Period...Variety so i can play a differnt list without it being the same.

 

2/ Fix/remove/replace the units that are no-brainer choices in a serious enviroment. Why take a unit of 10 possessed when you can pretty much take 8 terms for the same price. This goes for all the elites, fast (which i dont think any of our choices are good), and heavy (why take anything other than oblits and vindicators)...Lets draw these together and make alot of these more inline with everything else and useable.

 

3/ Chaos in this sense doenst mean random....Remove the stupid random crap from the chaos list, or at least think it through before you make a new dex. Seriously, i can scout with my possessed....But since it happens AFTER deployment even if i held them in reserve i cant outflank, brilliant gw, pure brilliance.

 

4/ Toys, just because were chaos doenst mean we dont deserve our shiny stuff too....You took half of our old codex and made it into a new codex, then didnt add things to replace the stuff you removed. Im not saying give us equivalent to space marine stuff, but come up with something ...That what you get paid to do anyhow.

 

5/ Dont be stupid with the next printing whenever that is...Spawn? Really?...You make this beautiful looking model that is fun to put together, then make it fairly unusable even in friendly games where you bring the rest of the trash to play.

 

6/ Add more of a daemoic presense to some of the units. I run word bearers and i try to make a more "daemonic" feeling list with them, but it doenst feel that way. Its a daemon prince (which i hate using because everyone and their grandmothers use them), possessed (i love these guys but man they are bi-polar), lesser daemons (honk if you are bored yet), greater daemon (i actually think this guy is right where he needs to be, other than the ability to mark him up as an option)....Thats where it ends. There needs to be more of a daemonic or insurection feel to the army as a whole. I would honestly be 100% pleased if they just redid the codex and added in The Lost and the Damned to the new dex. This would cover alot of bases and add a huge amount of flavor to any army.

 

7/ Dont forget about undivided and people who want their army to be fluffy with their army list. Its funny how an undivided lord or sorcerer can take a mount but then gains nothing from it....Complete incompetance in my opionion on this topic in general. Dont make it so someone is penalized for trying to be fluffy with their legion or army lists. I want to run word bearers and im restricted down to 1troop choice, 1 elite choice (if i want to play tourny), no fast attack choices, 2 heavy support choices (oblits and vindicators). This is looking at it from a tourny point of view, i could always run possessed and get my wonderful roll of 1 then not be able to use what the rules says im supposed to be able to do because i roll AFTER deployment. (all three of my games in ard boyz i rolled 1's for my possessed and actually had them in reserve a few of those game and wasnt able to outflank so its a sore spot for me :P)

 

8/ In apocalypse with our formations the extent of hate is truly seen on tabletop...Chaos annhilation force ect ect...This feeling of play needs to be realized in 40k and unleashed. Make our units and options hateful, death by any means possble, this is the true meaning of a chaos space marine now...We apsolutely hate the imperium, and pretty much look down on any of the zeno races. But make these feeling hit the tabletop and i think most people would be happy.

 

Now ive listed a few of the things i would love to see....And i was very bitter in certain areas. This is not to say i think GW completly botched the 4.0 dex, im going to list a few things i love about it to help balance the bitter.

 

1/ Terms are great, love what you did to them. This is actually the first dex ive used any at all.

 

2/ Daemon prince is a killing machine and should stay that way. However i view him a little on the tactically inept side and if a new dex comes out where HQs get special army wide upgrades (like the last few dexs have done), leave him as is and just make him an assbeater extrodinare.

 

3/ Our troops are all fairly good, ive used every single one extensively and they always perform well above average for me.

 

4/ I didnt like the defiler at first...But i admit the little guy has grown on me as time has gone by. 2 extra dread CC weapons and hes total hotness in melee.