what would you like to see in the next codex

[Pyro_Falcon]

Change nothing. CSM are better now than they've ever been

 

Actually on a serious note, we're in good shape mechanically except for some agonising rules re: things like dreadnaughts. But flavour-wise? Change everything. CSM have never felt so bland on the battlefield. When you're using "counts as" from C:SM to justify a slightly more fluffy version than your own codex can allow, then there's a serious problem.

 

Additionally, some balance issues from way back when simply don't make sense with the lore. F'rex, Chaos Space Marines don't have Apothecaries, Techmarines, servitors and drop-pods because of... because... Well, because why? Did every drop pod in the entire Traitor Legions just stop working the moment they parked in the Eye of Terror? Do all Chaos Dreadnaughts stay sleepy forever because there are no Techmarines and servitors to wake them up? It's a lengthy, arcane, complex process to rouse a Dreadnaught. You don't just run downstairs into the ship's hold and yell at the damn thing until it wakes up and complains about needing "just five more minutes, guys." And what about if a tank breaks down? Do they leave it on the battlefield in the hopes that in the next battle Khorne will pay the points to have it Daemonically Possessed? They don't fix it? Seriously?

 

I appreciate that the loyalists and the traitors need to be mechanically different to preserve some variety in the game. But seriously, I'd like some drop-pods, GW. When the rules are wildly divergent from the fluff, I regard that as an extreme failure on the parts of the rules designers. And the current C:CSM makes fielding fluffy Legion armies (and renegade Chapters alike) an absolute nightmare.

 

Actually chaos dreads go so bonkers they dont sleep, the CSM's just chain 'em down, but I totaly agree with waht you are saying.

 

-Pyro

[Ju'kosian]

* Return of the veteran skills

* Return of the cult legions with specific rules/units, so that there's a real difference between all the legions..

* Better possessed instead of the randomized point sink they are now..

* upgrade's on the landraider like the loyalists (more capacity and return of the infernal device)

* Real daemons instead of the generic ones, or keep the generic ones and Add the normal daemons..

* Chaos dreads like they used to be

* armoury and gifts, more customize options..

 

That's all that springs in mind at the moment

[InquisitorTynain]

So in other words , the Chaos players want to have a better standard Codex then the C:SM ? I mean whats the point of playing chaos if there isn't any disadvantages ? If its just C:SM with MORE stuff thats kick *** then why even bother with different codex ? There is a downside to choosing Chaos , bot by fluff and by Army. Its part of the package deal, why ask for extra cool stuff and all the abilities of loyalist marines. SternGuard are a cheap rip off of the new Chaos specific troops, they really arent that much more special. Old school veterans were better then this.

I am very much a fan of the split between the Demons and the CSM. They don't need to be together. ( Sorry Word Bearers)

I do mourn the loss of the Legion specific builds. However I don't mourn the loss of IW cheese armies that rapped and pillaged the Tourney scene in 3.5. Theres no reason to give the CSM chapter traits. They took it away from Loyalist marines for a reason and I doubt they'll just hand it back to another.

Why would you want the ridiculously bad rule of Fearless now ? Its horrible ! You just stand there and die, maybe a Chaos version of ATSKNF ? Like the pull back toward their Warlord and Auto rally within 12'' ?

 

Basically it saddens me to hear the CSM make arguments to get the same Dex that Loyalist have with the additional goodies of Chaos. Doesn't that seem broke even to you ?

[Lord_Caerolion]

I fail to see where we're asking for everything Loyalists get, Tynain. We're not asking for Thunderfires, Masters of the Forge, Attack Bikes, Land Raider Crusaders/Redeemers, multi-meltas, plasma cannon, Vanguard Veterans, Sternguard Veterans, thunder hammers or storm shields. Does that balance the things Chaos gets enough? Are those things more useful than some of the things Chaos gets, like Possessed or Dreadnoughts?

 

What we're asking for is a method for characters to change the army, like your Characters do, not a return of Traits. We're asking for a return of Veteran Skills, which can be fixed up. All in all, we're asking for our codex to be able to represent all Chaos Marines, not just renegade warbands.

 

We're not asking for Codex:Loyalists+1, we're asking for Codex: Chaos Marines to properly represent Chaos Marines, and work well doing it.

[Lay]

I think InquisitorTynain was talking about those who were actually asking where the Drop-pods, Techmarines, Servitors, etc. of the Traitor Legions went.

 

There is a downside to choosing Chaos , bot by fluff and by Army.

I agree that Chaos doesn't need any of the loyalist junk, however we could use a bit more, characterful variety since the "feel" of the armies is lacking (not the power). As long as the codex matches the fluff (not that warband nonsense) I'm willing to accept any disadvantage related to my army.

[iwasfrozen]

What do you mean by down side ?

If you mean weakness (which I think you do) then CSM is in our lack of leadership that SM have.

We also don't have Drop Pods, Land Speeders, good Land Raiders or Wirldwinds, our Dreadnaughts will kill our own men as quick as our enemies, possessed are rubbish compared to Termies for 4 more points, all the flavour has been squeezed from our Deamons, and our Lords only use are their Deamon Weapons to name a few.

How do you consider the CSM players overeacting, People are just getting carried away with Fanboy syndrome.

What I want to see in the new CSM codex are:

1. Put the focus of squads on the Aspirering Champion (kind of the like the Eldar Exarch)

2. Do this with the return of Daemonic gifts.

3. Drop Pods...

4. Give Deamons back their flavour

5. Get rid of the Lash Spam

6. Make Cult troops elite in an undivided army (an army where the Lord has a Mark of Chaos Undivided), Giving your chaos Lord a Mark of a particular God will make that Gods Cult unit a Troop however you will not be allowed anyother Cult unit, A mark of Tchzeentch on a Sorcerer will suffice for Rubic Marines, A Mark of Khorne cannot be given to a Sorcerer.

7. Having a Greater Daemon of a God will allow that Gods Lesser Daemon to be a troops choice, if no Greater Daemon is present the Lesser Daemons shall remain in the Fast attack slot.

 

That’s all I can think of for now, I'm going to bed, post more tomorrow.

[Brother Nihm]

So in other words , the Chaos players want to have a better standard Codex then the C:SM ? I mean whats the point of playing chaos if there isn't any disadvantages ? If its just C:SM with MORE stuff thats kick *** then why even bother with different codex ? There is a downside to choosing Chaos , bot by fluff and by Army. Its part of the package deal, why ask for extra cool stuff and all the abilities of loyalist marines. SternGuard are a cheap rip off of the new Chaos specific troops, they really arent that much more special. Old school veterans were better then this.

I am very much a fan of the split between the Demons and the CSM. They don't need to be together. ( Sorry Word Bearers)

I do mourn the loss of the Legion specific builds. However I don't mourn the loss of IW cheese armies that rapped and pillaged the Tourney scene in 3.5. Theres no reason to give the CSM chapter traits. They took it away from Loyalist marines for a reason and I doubt they'll just hand it back to another.

Why would you want the ridiculously bad rule of Fearless now ? Its horrible ! You just stand there and die, maybe a Chaos version of ATSKNF ? Like the pull back toward their Warlord and Auto rally within 12'' ?

 

Basically it saddens me to hear the CSM make arguments to get the same Dex that Loyalist have with the additional goodies of Chaos. Doesn't that seem broke even to you ?

I think you're missing the point, if you cook down all suggestions so far 90%, of it has to do with flavour and not the 'new shinies' that the loyalists got.

 

We're currently stuck with a number of options that simply do not work. Spawn, Dreads, Possessed, non-dakka preds, firing Landraiders.

 

However I don't mourn the loss of IW cheese armies that rapped and pillaged the Tourney scene in 3.5

This is a bit of an odd statement as what we have now is basically 3-4 cookie cutter cheese builds that you see all across the board/different armies - at tourneys. :mellow:

 

The various C:CSM discussion threads in the past all point to our current codex having no flavour, no variety (compared to the old) and that it reeks of unfinished/tester product.

 

Why shouldn't we have drop pods (dreadclaws really) ? sane (and insane) dreadnoughts, veteran skills, legion rules as each legion wages war and believe so differently from the next?

[Lord_Caerolion]

I agree wholeheartedly, Nihm. There's no reason Chaos shouldn't get Drop-pods. If anything, and to keep Loyalists happy, make it that we don't get the Drop-pod Assault rule. Easily fixed, we get drop-pods, but Loyalist ones can be more useful.

 

Really, Chaos should be an army where the strengths are single models. Chaos is all about personal power, with individual warriors all on their own paths to daemonhood. I liked it when our Aspiring Champions were powerhouses when tooled up, but cost as much as a cheap HQ. Chaos shouldn't be about synergy, or squads working together. Chaos should be about individual Champions.

[InquisitorTynain]

1. Put the focus of squads on the Aspirering Champion (kind of the like the Eldar Exarch)

2. Do this with the return of Daemonic gifts.

3. Drop Pods...

4. Give Deamons back their flavour

5. Get rid of the Lash Spam

6. Make Cult troops elite in an undivided army (an army where the Lord has a Mark of Chaos Undivided), Giving your chaos Lord a Mark of a particular God will make that Gods Cult unit a Troop however you will not be allowed anyother Cult unit, A mark of Tchzeentch on a Sorcerer will suffice for Rubic Marines, A Mark of Khorne cannot be given to a Sorcerer.

7. Having a Greater Daemon of a God will allow that Gods Lesser Daemon to be a troops choice, if no Greater Daemon is present the Lesser Daemons shall remain in the Fast attack slot.

 

I think folks took what I said a bit harshly :) . I am not saying that the current CSM is a good codex. It is a far less abused one compared to 3.5. That being said most of the suggestions above are both realistic and well thought out, and they allowing for the difference between Traitor legions to be shown. I miss the character filled armies of yore as much as the next guy, and I dont like seeing beserkers hand in hand with noise marines either. I just couldnt see how certain references to things in the new C:SM were a way to establish this. Drop pods are a good suggestiong and I wouldnt even dream of the current (insert)guard veterans being in the new CSM. Hell I personally think they suck in the current Loyal dex !! ( A Gk can do the same stronger faster for about the same price). Anyway dont get all upset at me, I really do think the new renegade junk is nonsense, and I miss good old fashioned traitor legions.

I just was a bit despairing of SOME ( not all ) of the comments I read thats all.

[CelestialSon]

So in other words , the Chaos players want to have a better standard Codex then the C:SM ? I mean whats the point of playing chaos if there isn't any disadvantages ? If its just C:SM with MORE stuff thats kick *** then why even bother with different codex ? There is a downside to choosing Chaos , bot by fluff and by Army. Its part of the package deal, why ask for extra cool stuff and all the abilities of loyalist marines. SternGuard are a cheap rip off of the new Chaos specific troops, they really arent that much more special. Old school veterans were better then this.

I am very much a fan of the split between the Demons and the CSM. They don't need to be together. ( Sorry Word Bearers)

I do mourn the loss of the Legion specific builds. However I don't mourn the loss of IW cheese armies that rapped and pillaged the Tourney scene in 3.5. Theres no reason to give the CSM chapter traits. They took it away from Loyalist marines for a reason and I doubt they'll just hand it back to another.

Why would you want the ridiculously bad rule of Fearless now ? Its horrible ! You just stand there and die, maybe a Chaos version of ATSKNF ? Like the pull back toward their Warlord and Auto rally within 12'' ?

 

Basically it saddens me to hear the CSM make arguments to get the same Dex that Loyalist have with the additional goodies of Chaos. Doesn't that seem broke even to you ?

 

oooo new man-crush! I kid...

 

But yeah, it's a hard road to hoe when CSMs have to fall somewhere between loyalists and chaos daemons. I guess the trouble with daemonic stuff is that it has to be done carefully to not make it look like all the credit goes to the chaos gods. CSMs should get something for being the battle hardened veterans of the galaxy, but maybe 3 pt vet skills for just CSM squads might be a good place to start.

[iwasfrozen]

@Tynain, sorry if I sounded abit harsh in my last post and I'm glad you like my ideas.

[sonsoftaurus]

The main thing I'd like to see would be a better representation of the varied types of "Chaos" armies. If it takes several books, fine.

 

Namely:

 

*Some provision for Marked and not just Iconned specialist units (Termies, Bikes, Raptors, Havocs). Icons are fine for some armies and keeping them is fine but allow for better/easier full-on Cult armies. Maybe marked lesser/greater daemons as well.

 

*Army-list differences between more recent Renegades and full-on Chaos Marines other than "use Codex: SM for renegades". Perhaps access to both SM and CSM only type stuff (Whirlwinds, Land Speeders, Daemons, etc.) but pay a premium on all but the most basic/common stuff.

 

*A return of an official Lost and the Damned list. Something better and more involved than just using "Spiky Guard" or a Forgeworld list.

 

There are other detail things I'd like to see, but those are the main "vision" fixes I'd like to see.

[Ju'kosian]

*A return of an official Lost and the Damned list. Something better and more involved than just using "Spiky Guard" or a Forgeworld list.

yes that would be very nice.

Since the current codex is more of a codex renegades they could make one for the traitor guard (along with the mutants and all like in the EoT codex)

 

So you can the following to my list :

* Lost and the damned (like in the EoT campaign, traitor guard with mutants and all)

* Return of the Ancient enemy rule both for Chaos marines and as for daemons... like it used to be.. :)

[Penmarch']

I simply can't understand that 'official' list thing.

It's a game! There nothing official if YOU don't make it official.

Play whatever you want and if your opponent is happy with it, just go ahead!

Why on earth do you let your creativity being strangled by an obviously incompetent company?

[flintlocklaser]

I simply can't understand that 'official' list thing.

It's a game! There nothing official if YOU don't make it official.

Play whatever you want and if your opponent is happy with it, just go ahead!

Why on earth do you let your creativity being strangled by an obviously incompetent company?

 

Because it's a lot easier to get pickup games at the local store if you don't have to sit down and negotiate your homemade custom list with each and every opponent?

[the jeske]

Why on earth do you let your creativity being strangled by an obviously incompetent company?

because tables are paid for in shops and each minute you spend on explaining what units does what and then finding out your opponent doesnt want to play against a list like that [and you have to pay for the table alone] ,kind of a sucks . arguing in a shop may result in a bann and then you wont be able to play not only w40k but other games too . thats like uber suck of all sucks .

 

not being to be able to play in tournaments sucks too. not being able to play outside the shop where everyone knows you sucks too , because maybe after a long long time and making some serious cool conversions someone will let you play with ad mecha knights army , but no one who doesnt know you is going to let you use home brew rules .

[Penmarch']

I'm not going to argue the fact that having standard lists is easier to pick up a game as you call it, but let me remind you that you pay a heavy price for this. Your creativity and all the fun that comes with it.

 

About tables being paid for in shops. You don't want to know what I think of such practices.

Now of course I'm in a comfy chair here since I've ran a wargames club (140+ members) for nearly 15 years now, and you're not 'on the meter' ever.

 

But seriously. Do all games have to be balanced? Do you really think that even one historical battle ever was?

Let's take just one or two glorious examples.

 

Thermopylae.

300 Spartan hoplites (and some 1000 Thespians) in a defensive battle against tens of thousands of Persian troops. Yet, they held out for days and only betrayal got them in the end. Eventually they would have perished but the legend was written already. Even the mutilation of '300' can't stop this.

 

Rorke's Drift:

Again a defensive battle seeing 140 British soldiers slugging it out with thousands of Zulu warriors. The British won.

 

See what I mean? What's the big difference between these two battles and a normal game of WH40K? Its the almost impossible odds that make it a challenge and you'll never have that if you adhere to a strict points system and 'offical' lists.

 

Of course I''l get flamed with things like 'WH40k can't be compared to a historical game' and 'It's something entirely different'.

 

Well, it isn't. Its all based on the same thing, like it or not.

 

WH40k is a good game, absolutely unrealistic and abstract, but fun to play. However it has the potential of being a superb game if you simply dare to take your blinders off.

 

Just think about it.

[the jeske]

Now of course I'm in a comfy chair here since I've ran a wargames club (140+ members) for nearly 15 years now, and you're not 'on the meter' ever.

am not even going to go in to how much does stuff cost in here and how hard its to explain to officials why you want a club where grown [and not] man play with plastic soldiers . Thats why we have tournaments and games in shops .

 

 

 

Thermopylae.

300 Spartan hoplites (and some 1000 Thespians) in a defensive battle against tens of thousands of Persian troops. Yet, they held out for days and only betrayal got them in the end. Eventually they would have perished but the legend was written already. Even the mutilation of '300' can't stop this.

 

Rorke's Drift:

Again a defensive battle seeing 140 British soldiers slugging it out with thousands of Zulu warriors. The British won

russian wars look a bit different . its more like we have 10 times the number of troops you have or more and we stomp you . we stomp you hard . But I do understand the western guys may have a different view on war as a whole . To me the spartans were fools [at leas tthose from thermopylae] , they could have take gold from the persians and gain dominance in the greek world[like they later did] . But thas all off topic.

See what I mean? What's the big difference between these two battles and a normal game of WH40K? Its the almost impossible odds that make it a challenge and you'll never have that if you adhere to a strict points system and 'offical' lists.

I dont know I dont see the challange in taking a weak army and losing turn 1 or 2 . And am way past the time when doing the same thing [killing the whole enemy army turn 1/2] was an achivment I looked for . Playing a good army against a good one is a challange . Top tier army and against top tier army . thats whats interesting . Getting stomped isnt . And its not even the losing thing , its the fact that one doesnt learn anything out of it .

I dont need to play game to know that I can destroy most armies [this changed a bit after 4th . eldar circus was able to take on more pts then it was worth once] that have fewer pts then me and those that are handicaped . Playing special scenarios is also a wee bit boring , because after playing it once you more or less know the math how the loses will look like [specially when you know what units are going to be taken].

[sonsoftaurus]

Thermopylae.

300 Spartan hoplites (and some 1000 Thespians) in a defensive battle against tens of thousands of Persian troops. Yet, they held out for days and only betrayal got them in the end. Eventually they would have perished but the legend was written already. Even the mutilation of '300' can't stop this.

 

Rorke's Drift:

Again a defensive battle seeing 140 British soldiers slugging it out with thousands of Zulu warriors. The British won.

 

Yeah, but both are examples of poor table setups. And everyone knows that the Zulu codex sucks compared to the British. All footsloggers, almost nonexistant ranged fire, no cover-ignoring weapons? Rubbish! :wallbash:

[Night Stalker]

Isandlwana - Zulu won against British. Clearly Zulu had loaded dices ;>

 

 

Zulu are overpriced. I always known that fearless is overpriced.

[Lay]

Play whatever you want and if your opponent is happy with it, just go ahead!

Why on earth do you let your creativity being strangled by an obviously incompetent company?

I do that already but doing GWs homework shouldn't be part of the hobby.

 

Of course I''l get flamed with things like 'WH40k can't be compared to a historical game' and 'It's something entirely different'.

 

Well, it isn't. Its all based on the same thing, like it or not.

 

WH40k is a good game, absolutely unrealistic and abstract, but fun to play.

Huh?

[Askari]

Generic daemons are just fine but marks would be nice.

For marines change the mark system so that it has tiers. An icon, an exalted mark which gives the mark to each individual model , and keep cult troops as seperate entries.

 

We also need daemonic gifts for lord and daemonic pacts that give sorcerors special abilities. I want to be able to customize my lord to be a sub daemon prince. I'm fine with the current daemon weapons but i would like for them to return to leadership tests instead of a roll of a one means you get ganked by your own weapon. That way the khorn weapon would be viable.

 

And let IC's take the mark of chaos undivided but just make it give a different effect like that you can take units with other marks without them becoming elites (yes I want to bring back that rule).

 

And also I think getting rid of possessed completely and just making it possible for chosen squads to buy possessions would be better than the current system. And chose should all have the ability to be upgraded to champions like terminators so they can get an extra attack for like 3-5 points per model. They can already get specialized close combat and ranged weapons so that's not a problem and I doubt anyone will trick them out because it will be a huge points sink.

 

And as for dreadnoughts you can make corrupted and uncorrupted dreadnoughts. They cost the same amount of points but corrupted dreadnoughts are dreads that have been in the eye of terror too long and have gained the crazed rule. but they also have WS and BS5 and an extra attack. Uncorrupted drednoughts have weaker stats but they also lack crazed and these can be used to represent renegade marines that have recently turned renegade and as such haven't become crazed.

 

Spawn: count as monstrous creatures. Will need for the unlimited number of spawn rule to be removed. Also, slow and purposeful needs to be removed. For that a 40 point model seems pretty balanced since they have no type of save.

[Spacefrisian]

My several cents, on top of the current codex.

 

1. Deamonprince, more options

 

2. Greater Deamon should be able to be marked given wings and psychic powers

 

3. Lesser Deamons should be able to be marked

 

4. Possessed. Drop of deamonkin rule and a smal list of options they can take. They may take 1 of them OR. Similar thing to combatdrugs.

 

5. Special weapons selections should allow 3 when 20 man are taken in squad. (maybe even free weapon options as in Codex Spacemarines)

 

6. Raptors should be more usefull (the same goes for bikers) Maybe somthing with their points or an extra rule.

 

7. More vehicle wargear options

 

8. Option to add Deamons from the Deamon codex in it but with some restrictions. (this replaces point 2 and 3)

 

 

Legion related options: (not tied with specific legions)

 

1. Dark Apostle/ Warsmith as an Hq option

 

2. Mutants/ big Mutants as 0-1 options as troops/ elites

 

3. Cult troops

 

 

Characters adds:

 

1. Characters for the other legions which add stuff to the army. eg NL char which makes raptors scoring.

 

2. Cypher should have an entry.

[Monkeychunks]

Alright, lets get down to business shall we?

 

 

- Tiered Mark system.

Rather than flat out 'I like Khorne' bumper stickers, have levels of devotion. 'Tier 1' would be Icons, exactly the same as they are now except recosted to actually take into account the unit buying them. Tier 1 would also include 'Legions', which are functionally identical to a Lords Marks (pay for each model, cannot be removed) which give a niche boost to represent the Undivided Legions.

 

Iron Warriors- Fearless when attacking or defending an objective, units may have 2 Special/Heavy Weapons rather than 1 of each (still need 10 models).

Night Lords- Any Morale checks inflicted are taken at -1 to Leadership, -2 if outnumbered.

Alpha Legion- Any unit may be held in reserve and deployed via Outflank.

Word Bearers- Every model carries a Personal Icon and is Fearless, Champions and Characters get +1 to Invulnerable saves (or a 6+ if they have none).

 

Legions and Icons may be combined on the same model, ie- Khornate Night Lord Raptors, Tzeentchian Iron Warrior Havocs etc.

 

 

'Tier 2' would be Cults. Applied to each model rather than each squad, these cannot be removed. Being in a Cult means you may NOT carry an Icon, or be part of a Legion. Your devotion to the God in question takes priority over everything. Again, costed according to the unit, since Nurgle would obviously be better on Terminators than say, a Raptor. All Cultists are Fearless.

 

Khorne- +1 WS and Furious Charge.

Slaanesh- +1 Initiative, +1 A and may purchase Sonic Weaponry.

Nurgle- +1 T, Feel no Pain and Blight Grenades. -1 Initiative.

Tzeentch- 4+ Invulnerable Save, Inferno Bolts and recieve a Bolter if they do not have one already.

 

These may be also be applied to Daemon packs! Bear in mind these would cost ALOT of points (talking like 7pts for a grunt, 15pts for a Terminator).

 

 

 

Aside from that, some smaller changes...

 

- New army wide rule: Veterans of the Long War.

Many of the Chaos Marines have seen battle for ten thousand years, and fought alongside Horus. Others have endured countless battles in the Eye of Terror, or been blessed by the Gods. Whatever the case, Chaos Marines are amongst the most experienced warriors in the galaxy. All units gain +1WS on the charge, in addition to any other benefits.

This promotes aggressive play rather than defensive, as well as making Chaos Marines slighter better than the Loyalists. This is deliberate- why would you betray and condemn yourself to torment if you didn't get anything out of it?

 

- Daemon Weapons do not require a mark, simply allow Lords to purchase 1 of the 5 currently available (possibly make some new ones too).

- Greater Daemons can buy Marks. Nurgle is FNP for 30pts, Khorne is Furious Charge and Wings for 25pts, Slaanesh is Fleet and a Doom Siren for 20pts, and Tzeentch gives Wings and access to 2 Psychic powers for 15pts + the cost of Powers.

- REMOVE LASH.

- Possessed have 2 powers. You pay for one, and roll for the second. For instance, you could purchase Rending, and then roll up some Wings at the start of the game. Randomness can be important, but not to ruin a unit.

- Make 'Craziness' a free upgrade for Dreadnoughts. Give them some funky unshakable rules and some more attacks, in exchange for the insanity table.

- Make Chosen more than Infiltrate. +1 Attack is a given, possibly a multitude of USRs available to take. Maybe the option for Bikes, Jump Packs or a Banner of some sort.

- Removal of Berserkers, Plague Marines etc. Just buy a unit of Marines the relevant Cult.

- Give Raptors Hit & Run back, or at least something to make them unique.

- Spawn back to 28pts

 

- New units I'd like:

- Brutes, Elite.

A unit of big Ogre mutants, like Ogryns. Give them a big list of upgrades, such as +1S, +1T or Rending, similar to Tyranid Biomorphs.

 

- Cultists, Troops.

Traitors et al, just rolled up into one big unit for convenience. May be armed either with Autoguns, or Autopistols and Knives. I don't think the smaller mutations should really have a bearing on combat effectiveness, so I wouldnt bother with a separate Mutant unit.

 

- Stalk Tanks, Fast Attack.

A sqaudron of mini-walkers, similar to Killa Kans. These could be either mini Defilers or Sentinel models, nasty in combat and mounted weapons no bigger than an Autocannon/Plasma Cannon. Oh, and Fleet.

 

- Daemon Engine, Heavy Support.

The last word in customisability, this is intended to be the big cheese in centrepieces. Similar to a Carnifex in options, you should really be able to build almost anything from it. Start as a Walker, but may replace with a Tank for free (no Attacks or move through cover, but go faster and Tank Shock). Armour 14, 13, 12, and has a transport of 20. Stuff like taking a Hellcannon (reduces transport limit), and 4 weapon sites which may be either for Dread Combat Weapons or Heavy Weapons.

This one could be built in millions of ways. A simple Hellcannon platform for some cheap Artillery, an unshakable Assault transport with supporting weapons, a 4 weapon wielding melee juggernaut, or a 300pts Blitzkrieg bus packed to the gunnels with Plasma Cannons and Heavy Bolters.

 

- More Characters!

- Kor Phaeron of the Word Bearers, no idea what he would do, but probably similar in fuction to a Chaplain.

- Zso Sahaal of the Night Lords, makes Raptors into Troops and gives his unit Furious Charge, possibly rules for 'Strike at the Hand, Heart and Mind'.

- Someone of the Alpha Legion, gives 1 unit a USR (Like Sicarius) and his unit may Outflank from behind. Possibly a Sorcerer thematically?

- Honsou of the Iron Warriors. Allows 0-2 Dreadnoughts as Troops, may reinforce terrain to give +1 to cover saves. Comes with an Daemonic artillery gun.

 

 

 

Righto, that was long, but I've been through this lots of times. This is how I would rewrite the next codex. :D

[Askari]

No! you want to allow a slaanesh lord to take a Khorne daemon weapon? that's wht sucks about fanatsy.

 

And really, our basic troops already are better than codex marines tac squads giving them an extra WS on the charge is broken.

 

Daemon engine sounds lot like a defiler to me except with too many options and seriousy if it as a transport capacity of 20 models it will be either prohibitively expensive or ridiculously broken. W have to look for balanced options and ways to make all of the units currently available good choices so that people will be able to use a unit without hamstringing themselves but at the same time we don't want to make a codex that is ridiculously cheesy.

 

greater daemons don't need psychic powers or wings because then why should you take daemon princes. daemon princes should be 0-1 choices but lash isn't that bad.

 

I' like to see cultists as troops as long as they couldn't be taken as compulsory troops slots. But the ogryn unit would most likely never be taken since they wouldn't be much different from spawn (which suck).

 

And I can't really think of anyone that wants to have to take a special character to be able to have legion traits. maybe they can be like marks that a person without a mark can take.

 

They can be like:

Devout: Gives all units except ICs fearless. ICs with this mark and any unit they accompany get to re-roll to hit, this represents the Word bearers.

 

Terror: Units being at shot at by a unit with this mark or in close combat with a unit with this mark takes a -1 penalty to their lead. When a unit with this mark is in closecombat with a fearless unit they count as having scored an extra wound when calculating who won combat. IC's with this mark increase it to -2 leadership, not cumulative. For nightlords

 

Subterfuge: All units with this mark may infiltrate. IC's with this ability cause enemy units to re-roll scatter when deepstriking. Chosen gain scout. Alpha legion

 

siege masters: Units with this mark have all of their weapons count as twinlinked. IC's with this mark and any unit they accompany have furious charge when they charge an enemy in cover. Iron warriors.

 

And make a special rule that says units with other marks count as elites choices unless you take the mark of chaos undivided (black legion) and then characters can only join units with the same mark.