Effectiveness of all Scout Armies in the new C:SM

[dragonlady]

Ok, back in 3rd edition it was fun to field an occasional all scout army: Scouts for Troops and Scout Bikers for Fast Attack, with Landspeeder as support units.

 

Idea was as cheap as possible SM horde army.

 

Now with 5th edition, our beloved scouts are now worse shots, but most all else the same, and we have a new landspeeder in the wings with the LS:Storm which would be used as a new Scout troop transport.

 

What is others experiences or thoughts on the tactical viability (or outright fun factor) of an old scout.

 

Thanks in advance (as I sit here and assemble my 9 scout bike units and ponder about mixing my new plastic scouts with my old metal scouts).

 

Dragonlady

[Reinholt]

I don't see too much of a change. If anything, you've gained a few more toys for scouts (the scout bikes are definitely better than they were previously, and the landspeeder gives them a transport option), as well as a sergeant upgrade for one unit to make the anti-tank a bit better.

 

Overall, it's still a gimmicky army in some ways that will have some major issues with certain opposing builds (especially ones heavy on armor), but I don't think the playstyle has changed dramatically. Scouts are roughly as good as they were before (they lost some ground with the WS / BS cut, but gained some in the options above), all in all.

[greatcrusade08]

I think scout armies would be cool, i want to run one once if finished my 3rd and 8th UM companies.

The scout bikers are awesome, the new storm speeders are great.

 

Plus in a scout army, you could either take a space marine chapter master and command squad to reprisent the 10th company or with permission use Telion as your army commander (HQ).

Scouts have the option to be used as tacticals with bolters and a heavy weapon for 150 points (for 10), plus the scout sergeant can have a combi-melta or flamer or even a plasma pistol.

 

If someone were to make a scout army, they would still be able to take tanks from the armoury, dreads from the vault or veterans (terms/dreads from 1st co), i think the only things they couldnt 'fluffwise' would be normal bikes, speeders as these are assault marines, obviously no power armoured marines (except command) so no devs. tacs or assaults.

 

But it would be cool to see one, im not sure if they could be competative as they cannot have transports, again this could be an agreed on thing and use basic tac rules for them!

[dragonlady]

gc, those are some great ideas.

 

Dreadnaughts as part of the fast approach is a good way to bring in some of those heavy weapon options for the company.

 

I would be surprized to see anyone bring a 10th company scout army to a tournament, so I can see why rienholt would call it gimmicky, but doesn't reduce the opportunity for this to be a very fluffy and fun army to occasionally field, expecially for a series of specified scenarios. Story lined based, rather than simple line up bash games.

[Cadarn]

When I got back into the hobby a couple of years back, it was with the intention of building an all scout force, but I was put off by the lack of anything decent other than the scouts themselves. Now it looks a lot more interesting and so I'm looking to dust of the noobs and get them painted up.

 

As far as making them balanced, they do have one major advantage, and that is a combination of speed and controlling the field. I was going to break it down into the abilities themselves, but having thought about it some more, it is better to go for a unit by unit breakdown.

 

Scout Bikes:

Not only are they now far nicer looking than before, but the manner in which they can be used has improved also.

 

Cluster mines These can make your opponent very paranoid about moving into terrain. This is especially true of horde armies who would try to make as much use of terrain as possible to shield the troops as they closed in for assault.

Grenade Launchers Six strength six shots at rear amour? Yes please. Not to mention their effectiveness against high toughness opponents such as Ork Bosses and some monstrous creatures. Then you have the frag grenades which can decimate light infantry. Six blast templates will make a mess of any lightly armed unit.

Locator Beacon You want that Land Speeder Storm to deep strike exactly where you say so? You've got it! This can also work if you use your scouts as a recon group before the main assault of fully fledged marines. Vanguard vets, Drop Pods, Terminators, Assault Troops and Land Speeders can all deep strike. This will help.

Sergeant You can outfit this guy to fit most roles, but he probably best works to bolster the anti armour capabilities of the unit with Melta-bombs, and either a power fist or a combi melta

 

 

Land Speeder Storm

The Land Speeder Storm is a cracking piece of kit and I can't wait for a model (I'm rubbish at conversions). It's almost worthy of a tactiica by itself. It can be used in a number of ways:

 

-Grabbing the objective: Chuck some scouts in it and it can move a whopping 24 inches, grabbing an objective at the last minute.

-Contesting objectives: Same thing, but once you've dropped the kids off at the objective, you can then fly over and contest an objective your oppponent is holding.

-Mobile firebase: Models transported within an open topped vehicle can all fire, albeit they count as having moved.. Whizz this thing around with a unit of five scouts inside and harrass the enemy, with ten strength four shots then hightail it out of there when they start getting close. All without the hassle of embarking and disembarking. It won't cause masses of damage, but it will be very frustrating and may just be the thing to distract your opponent from his objectives.

-Tank hunting: You can equip it with a multi-melta and pop enemy armour or monstrous creatures. The BS3 makes it somewhat unreliable in this field, but anyone who has found their landraider taken out with a bright lance equipped Vyper will tell you how frustrating it can be.

-Asssaulting: Open topped, fast, skimmer. Three words which give great joy to those who favour the rapid assault. While the max you can move is 12 inches if you want to assaullt, this still gives you an effective assault range of 18 inches. With the potential to move 24 inches in the turn before, this means you can launch a pin point assault to almost anyt place on the board within two turns. While it can only carry a small unit, it can soften the enemy up with it's own heavy weapon, as well as any weapons carried by the squad then the scouts can jump out screaming blue murder at their foe. They only need to win by a small margin, as the Cerberus Launcher will reduce the enemy's leadership by 2, meaning they are more likely to break and hopefully be wiped out by the remaining scouts (if there are any ;) )

-Deep Strike Denial: You know your oppponent has deep striking units standing by. You have a rough idea where they're going to go. Get that bloody landspeeder over there and stop them! Any unit deep striking within six inches of the Storm scatters 4D6 inches, irrespective of teleporter homers, locator beacons, or similar toys. No-one short of Drop Pods are going to risk that, as the risk of forcing a deep strike mishap is just too great. So that's a twelve inch circle of game board you've just dominated. Great for protecting objectives from deep striking terminators.

 

Sergeant Telion

I can't wait to use this guy. I play against a Guard player who always frustrates me because his guardsmen do not run away when they should. Instead they rely on the master vox and his commander's leadership to make them stand firm. Not for long. With the ability to allocate wounds, Tellion can make short work of such nuisances, no matter how many ablative wounds the enemy surrounds himself with. On top of that, he can use his ability to allow another model in his unit to use his BS. Think of that Hellfire Heavy Bolter round landing exactly where you want it to. With the average scatter distance being 7 inches, his BS or 6 massively reduces the likelihood of it going astray.

 

Scouts

Not a huge amount has changed in the way these chaps are used since the last edition, although there are a few quirks which definitely need noting.

 

Stealth Cloaks: Consider how much terrain is on the board for a Cities of Death style game. Now consider each of your cover saves being improved by one. That is a lot of potential 3++ saves for your troops. Especially useful for sniper units who find a nice piece of heavy cover and sit tight. They are now better protected than your fully fledged marines with their shiny power armour.

Move through Cover: Again, ties in very well with the stealth cloaks. It makes scouts very good for tempting enemy assault troops into difficult terrain and thus being bogged down. Deploy your scouts in the difficult terrain as a tempting target for enemy assault troops. Give them stealth cloaks to sweeten the deal, as your opponent will be relucant to waste too much firepower on them. Pop shots at the foe with your bolters and then when the enemy draws close, pull back. You will be moving faster than your opponent, giving you more time to wear him down.

Sniper Rifles: Snipers can be used to pin units, holding them in place, while your other units pick them off. Again, very useful against either horde or guard infantry units. Pin the units and then let the Bikes hurl Frag grenades at them. Of course, with Nids, this would only work once you've taken out the synapse creatures. Another job for the snipers.

Shotguns: We're now far more likely to see shotguns on the table. It's really down to what you want your scouts to do. If they are an assault unit then you need to think carefully. Do you want two str 4 shooting hits followed by two str4 assault hits on the charge, as you would with shotguns? Or would you rather have one str 4 shooting hit followed by three str4 close combat hits as you would with bolt pistol and combat knife. It really comes down to how much you want to thin the ranks before getting into close combat. They are most useful against low armour/high initiative enemies such as Eldar, Gaunts or Guardsmen with Close Order Drill (meaning they strike back at equal initiative), as you are then facing fewer attacks coming back at you

Sergeant: Pretty much the same as with the Biker sergeant, although he benefits more from a close combat loadout, as he can take two CC weapons, which the bike sergeant can't. Again, he can take a teleporter homer to bring those deep strike units exactly where you want them.

 

General Points

-Outflank is a risk, but there is a grim joy to knowing you can outflank with your entire force. If you use Shrike or Khan, then you can even do it with your HQ.

-Scouts: The abiility to move before the game begins can be a huge boon, especially if you have deployed first. With so many high speed units, it effectively allows you to re-deploy. Your bikes and Storms can all move up to 24 inches, that's a possible six units moving a long way. That can totally throw off your opponent's deployment. Forget strategy, it would just be fanatstic to watch your opponent's face.

 

 

----------------

 

Right, this was only meant to be a "scouts are cool!" post, but it now sounds like I'm getting a commssion for each scout model sold. Not the case, I assure you. I have also totally sold myself on the idea of an all scout force.

 

Bring on the noobs!

[greatcrusade08]

Hey Cadarn that was very cool ;)

 

Heres my impromtu 1500 point 10th co army list:

 

Chaplain on bike 135 points

7 Scout bikers, 2 astarte grenade launchers

cluster mines, power fist 205 points

 

10 scouts, bolters, ML, combi-melta 175 points

 

10 scouts, bolters, ML, combi-melta 175 points

 

10 scouts, sniper rifles, heavy bolter

Camo cloaks and Telion upgrade 230 points

 

5 scouts, shotguns, combi-flamer

power fist 110 points

Land speeder storm 50 points

 

5 scouts, shotguns, combi-flamer

power fist 110 points

Land speeder storm 50 points

 

Dreadnought, twin lascannon, ML 145 points

 

Dreadnought, twin lascannon, ML 145 points

 

The look on your opponents face.....priceless

 

C+C welcome, but a scout army is definately in my future!!!

 

GC08

[Paulochromis]

hey gc08,

 

Why not avail yourself of some locator beacons, and put the dreads in drop pods?

 

Cheers, Paul.

[greatcrusade08]

hey gc08,

 

Why not avail yourself of some locator beacons, and put the dreads in drop pods?

 

Cheers, Paul.

 

You could go down that path, but my intention was to use the 2 dreads as a makeshift devestator squad, for long range support, something a scout army would miss, i could rearrange things to add in a ironclad in pod, but the thing about scout armies is that you have to put models on the table, if your putting more than a couple of dreads down, its a points sink.

I guess on my list above i could swap a 10 man scout with ML, combi melta (175 points), for a ironclad and pod (about the same-ish)

 

GC08

[Jackelope King]

While not a pure scout army, I was toying around with a way to really abuse Landspeeder Storms in low-point games and came up with this:

 

The Core (for 500 pt games):

 

HQ- Chaplain w/ Jump Pack

 

Troops- 2x 5-Man Scout Squads w/ Combat Blades

 

Fast Attack- Assault Squad, 2x Landspeeder Storms w/ Heavy Flamers

 

The Muscle (for bringing it up to 750 pts):

Elites- Dreadnought w/ TW Lascannon & Missile Launcher; Dreadnought 2/ 2x Twin-Linked Autocannons

 

The Core of the not-quite-purely-Scout-army's job is to cluster up and rush into battle. The Scouts climb aboard the Land Speeder Storms and set out, while the assault marines and the chaplain strap on their jump packs and jump-and-run their way across the board as well. All the elements converge on the same enemy squad, with the Land Speeder Storms firing off their flamers to begin the pain. The infantry can fire off 16 bolt pistol shots before the charge, and then run on in, with the enemy suffering a -4 penalty to Leadership. Between three squads assaulting and a base -4 penalty to leadership that round (bringing the average leadership for an enemy squad down to 3 and the best down to 6 before wounds), the enemy is in very serious trouble.

 

And for slightly larger games, the muscle (in the form of a pair of weapon-festooned dreadnoughts) become slightly-more-mobile devastator squads, with one able to take down whatever enemy armor happens to come around (at 750 points, it likely won't be all that heavy) and the other equipped with anti-infantry firepower. While the dreads would be helpful in melee, they're too slow to get there, and their firepower is far more helpful, all told.

[greatcrusade08]

Sounds like an effective way to use storms against high ld opponents, but how could we make this work in an ALL scout army, as there are no assault troops?

 

When building a scout force i kind of assumed a few things:

 

a : You need a 10 man sniper/telion squad, i stuck in a heavy bolter with helfire for a little more against MC's with telions eye of experience rules. Plus with the new snipers BS of 3 you have to figure only half hit, then half wound (4+ vs anything), which would give 2.5 wounds (simple mathhammer) against power armour, this is probably only 1 unsaved wound, but it means one pinning save, which is why you take snipers!

With lucky rolling or against 'weaker' opponents this unit could hopefully force 2/3 pinning tests per turn!

 

b : To be within the force org rules, you have to have 1 HQ, and since Telion is an upgrade, you have a few choices.

Fluff wise you could play a captain/master (for UM its Captain Abraxxon), as a scout army would be nearly every man in 10th company (remember there is very rarely 100 men in this company) and im sure he would want to be there to guide his charges!

OR as a support role HQ, a chaplain or librarian, personally to reprisent 'fluff' id take the chappy to 'guide' the new troops with his divine inspiration.

 

But does anyone know if you can have a command squad for 10th company, i ask because in all battle companies the command squad are veterans awaiting a spot within 1st company, but once a scout is fully trained and battle hardened he normally goes into a battle company????

Personally thinking it through i would have as little power armour on the field as possible to give the army more of its character!

 

Also id say NO special characters, as 'fluffwise' why would they only be accompanied by noobs!

 

c : You need to make use of the special units available to scouts, if you want full details see Cadarns excellent overview near the top of this thread, the guy has done his research! B)

Basically, the storm speeder and scout bikes are a must.

 

d : The purpose of taking a scout army is to put more minis on the board, against an MEQ army you need bodies not special toys that wont last long!.

 

e : To be 'fluffy' (i use that word excessively but im a fluff nut) there are a lot of units you shouldnt take:

Quick summary:

Special characters.

Honour guard:

Command squad????

No veterans: terminators, sternguard or vanguard!

No power armour, tacticals, devestators or assault troops

Speeders and bikes are assault troops!!!

 

Legion of the damned 'fluffwise' would be ok as they help where they are needed, but again to maintain the character of the army id say no power armour!

 

 

Taking all this into account there are alot of weaknesses inherent in a scout force,

a : Lack of long range support:

This can be countered by taking vehicles from the armoury, predators, whirlies personally id say LR's are OTT, but the thunderfire cannons are crewed by a techmarine and would fit perfectly into my idea of a 'support' role for a scout force.

Also you could take dreadnoughts to fit this role, they can be equipped in a multitude of ways, my favourite to get cheap tank busters is ML, assault cannon/lascannon --- 125/145 points respectively, two of these do the same job as a devestator squad, and are better in many ways.

 

b : Lack of close combat ability:

Considering these are ultimately space marines with S4 T4, they should be able to hold thier own, but against assault troops or MEQ's they will suffer, again this will come down to good tactics (again see Cadarns post above)

Also you could fit in a ironclad in a drop pod as has been mentioned already, scouts can be given locator beacons, so drop podding will be more effective

 

I think the trap some people will fall in though is to take too many dreads or to have a MOTF and have upto 6, i fear this will turn a scout force into a dread force with some scouts hanging about.

When i build my scout company, i want it to be 'fluffy', believable and fun to play

C+C welcome

 

GC08

[Cadarn]

I'm liking the adherance to fluff. A scout force would be pretty much fluff based anyway, it it would represent a recon unit or stealth insertion, either on a special mission as part of a campaign or to prep the way for a main assault.

 

I agree that Close Combat and long range fire are weak points, but they can be countered in a few ways, as mentioned above. Having a Dred as part of a scout force would actually work, fluff wise. Dreds are not only awesome warriors, but their wisdom and experience are in high demand. And where is that needed more than in a scout company. You can see an Ancient of the chapter coming along on a mission to impart his wisdom to the noobs while they stand around saying how cool he is.

 

Another way to fit some heavy fire power in would be to think of the scouts acting as an escort unit to get some heavy artillery in optimal position. A thunderfire is especially fitting for this. Read the description of the Thunderfire in the codex and it fits. It's used to bring heavy firepower to hard to reach places such as mountanous terrain or close cities. Sounds like perfect scout territory to me. Also acting as a bodyguard platoon for a whirlwind which would normally be deployed behind friendly lines to provide long range support.

 

As far as HQ choices go, I had originally planned on using a chaplain on a bike, as mentioned above, but I'm less convinced now. I feel you could use special characters, especially Khan, but only as a "counts as." It would make sense that the Captain of the 10th company would be a specialist in stealth and hit and run attacks. That said, there is nothing wrong with having a standard captain on foot. The risk is that he would be stranded by the faster moving units. The good part is that you could use the rather funky Master of Recruits model from the Chapter Masters set.

 

However, my personal choice would be to use a Chapter Master. I know, it sounds weird, but it also makes sense so long as you think of him only as a captain. This is mainly due to his ability to call down an orbital strike. Again, one of the main roles of the scouts is to recon targets for orbital bombardment. It would then make sense that the Captain could call out the targets and then then the strike would come from orbit. Then you have a tasty bit of fluff, albeit slightly home brewed, and some heavy fire power which can hit any point on the table.

[Cadarn]

Gah! Curse you, Dragonlady for starting this thread. Now I'm all enthused about a scout company, something I really can't afford to start collecting right now. Thinking about it more, a scout force would be a tactician's dream. I say this because that is what I really love about this game; fluff and tactics, so I'm pretty much talking about myself. A force such as this would be great for any game where there are multiple objectives on the board as they would have a number of small, fast units which can grab objectives at the last minute. If anyone has played against a jetbike heavy Eldar force in 5th ed then you'll know how pesky they can be at grabbing objectives at the last minute. Scouts in Storms can do this wonderfully.

 

However, I'm not sure how well they would fare in an Anihilation mission, especially against MEQ. Something to consider...

[greatcrusade08]

Gah! Curse you, Dragonlady for starting this thread. Now I'm all enthused about a scout company, something I really can't afford to start collecting right now. Thinking about it more, a scout force would be a tactician's dream. I say this because that is what I really love about this game; fluff and tactics, so I'm pretty much talking about myself. A force such as this would be great for any game where there are multiple objectives on the board as they would have a number of small, fast units which can grab objectives at the last minute. If anyone has played against a jetbike heavy Eldar force in 5th ed then you'll know how pesky they can be at grabbing objectives at the last minute. Scouts in Storms can do this wonderfully.

 

However, I'm not sure how well they would fare in an Anihilation mission, especially against MEQ. Something to consider...

 

I know EXACTLY how you feel, i had my army builds all planned out for this christmas in the form of fattening up my 8th company assault army, i wasnt going to collect scouts until the summer, but ive caught the bug and i am bumping the 10th straight to the top of my list!!!

 

I myself am not a sound tactician, i do ok i guess but i collect for the fluff, i guess youve figured this out by now, i love stories behind the armies and aslong as i can be competative with the army it doesnt matter if i win or not.....that being said if i could win a few more games id be alot happier.

 

Cadarn: Your quite close to me geographically i mean, so maybe after xmas when ive got my scouts, we could get together at GW Cambs and go over some stuff?......teach me Yoda!!!!!

 

GC08

[dragonlady]

I was just binging the idea to the council. I already had the bug myself and had started collecting metal scouts years back, but had placed the project on hold for other projects. With the new models, my scout bikes had begun to take shape again and have been on my workbench.

 

Thanks for the the ideas and discussion on this, it is exactly what I was looking for.

 

I agree that Telios is a a great addition to this group.

 

Dragonlady.

[greatcrusade08]

Ok just to keep this going, and because i have nothing better to do at work than sit and make army lists, heres my latest:

 

HQ: Chapter master

Power weapon, bolter with hellfire rounds 150 points

 

TROOP: 10 scouts with Telion

sniper rifles, H.bolter, camo cloaks 230 points

 

TROOP: 10 scouts

Bolters, ML, combi-melta/flamer 160 points

 

TROOP: 5 scouts with shotguns, combi-melta/flamer 85 points

 

TROOP: 5 scouts with shotguns, combi-melta/flamer 85 points

 

FAST: Scout bikes (5)

Locator beacon, 2 grenade launchers, cluster mines 165 points

 

FAST: Land speeder storm

Multi-melta 65 points

 

FAST: Land speeder storm

Multi-melta 65 points

 

ELITE: Dreadnought

Multi-melta, heavy flamer 115 points

Drop pod 35 points

 

ELITE: Ironclad dreadnought

heavy flamer, storm bolter 140 points

Drop pod 35 points

 

HEAVY: Whirlwind 85 points

 

HEAVY: Whirlwind 85 points

 

C+C always welcomed :lol:

 

GC08

[Yeril]

I've once been on the reciving end of a VERY deadly scout army, to summarise.

 

Captian Shrike.

10 scouts with bolt pistols and CCW, Sergeant has a power fist.

10 scouts with bolt pistols and CCW, Sergeant has a power fist.

10 scouts with bolt pistols and CCW, Sergeant has a power fist.

10 scouts with bolt pistols and CCW, Sergeant has a power fist.

10 scouts with bolt pistols and CCW, Sergeant has a power fist.

10 scouts with bolt pistols and CCW, Sergeant has a power fist.

 

First turn, infiltrates 18" away from you, charges 19-24" and dropping 30+ attacks per squad.

[Cadarn]

Yoda? Alas, I'm afraid not. It's pretty much theoretical based on what I've been reading and having used a number of similar units. I've recently been using my Eldar force, so many of the tactics relating to maneuverability are based on things I've seen or used with them.

 

The list looks pretty tight. I'd suggest getting some TL Las cannons on the dreads to give some long range heavy fire power against armour or MC, but they are expensive and I can't think of anywhere else to shave the points from, so you've probably got the best combo there for a scout force.

[Jackelope King]

I still feel as though Scouts are missing at least two significant things to make a "Scout Only" army truly viable:

 

1. No "Pure Scout" HQ. At best, your HQ is going to wear power armor, and you don't have a way around this to play a real "Pure Scout" army.

 

2. Land Speeder Storms aren't dedicated transports for scouts. This brings a host of problems for the Scout army. For one, the inability for Scouts to deploy in a Storm prevents them from using tactics available to many other armies (though thankfully, the "Scouts" ability on the Storm can help mitigate it somewhat). The Storm is probably also the best anti-armor weapon in the "Pure Scout" army, but it's also extremely powerful as a platform for launching assaults with its Cerberus launchers. This leads to a somewhat confused role (which again can be mitigated with a good weapon choice for the Storm... I like the Heavy Bolter or the Heavy Flamer for Storms dedicated to rushing melee-scouts into the fray). Finally, the Storm takes up precious Fast Attack slots, meaning it competes with the one other special Scout unit in the game: the Scout Bikers.

 

I see one house rule that could fix both of these problems, with two different forms. Both of them allow taking a Captain with Scout Armor for +0 points. They might get Scouts, Infiltrate, and Move Through Cover in exchange for swapping into weaker armor, they might not (depending on balance and cost). That's not the meat of the change. The meat of the change is going somewhat along the lines of the Captain mounted on a bike: a Scout Captain makes Storms more available. One possibility could be that the Storms count as Dedicated Transports for Scouts (allowing you to deploy Scouts in Storms, Deep Strike with a compliment of Scouts, and not take up Force Organization with Storms). The downside to this is that making Storms "free" in terms of Force Organization might be a little too good (though this remains to be seen with a pure Scout army). The other option would be to allow Scout Armies to take 1-3 Storms as a single Fast Attack choice. This probably wouldn't be quite as potentially unbalancing, but it would still allow a "Pure Scout" army to field enough Storms to move all his squads while still being able to field at least a few Scout Bikes.

 

Admittedly, I'd also like to see a way to deploy some kind of Scout Heavy Support (maybe a mortar team or tank-hunter team with meltaguns), but I think this would be workable enough to make a "Pure Scout" army really viable. (But I think this sort of thing is best for a house rules forum, not really here, so forgive my massive digression.)

[Cadarn]

I always consider the Master Of Recruits to be the tenth company captain, in which case he wears power armour. I would prefer a scout based HQ, but this does seem a close match.

 

Also, do independant characters not get Move through cover as standard?

[Jackelope King]

Also, do independant characters not get Move through cover as standard?

Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe they only get it while they're Independent, not while they're as part of a squad.

[Cadarn]

But if the squad already had the rule then surely they would keep it, as would be the case with scouts.

[BrotherAtrox]

Anyone else think a "Counts As" Shrike would be decent for a Scout army? Or was that already mentioned and I missed it?

[xXwarsmithXx]

I concur. Half of this is modelling stuff that you want to look cool.

[TechnoBanker]

I still feel as though Scouts are missing at least two significant things to make a "Scout Only" army truly viable:

 

1. No "Pure Scout" HQ. At best, your HQ is going to wear power armor, and you don't have a way around this to play a real "Pure Scout" army.

 

2. Land Speeder Storms aren't dedicated transports for scouts. This brings a host of problems for the Scout army. For one, the inability for Scouts to deploy in a Storm prevents them from using tactics available to many other armies (though thankfully, the "Scouts" ability on the Storm can help mitigate it somewhat). The Storm is probably also the best anti-armor weapon in the "Pure Scout" army, but it's also extremely powerful as a platform for launching assaults with its Cerberus launchers. This leads to a somewhat confused role (which again can be mitigated with a good weapon choice for the Storm... I like the Heavy Bolter or the Heavy Flamer for Storms dedicated to rushing melee-scouts into the fray). Finally, the Storm takes up precious Fast Attack slots, meaning it competes with the one other special Scout unit in the game: the Scout Bikers.

 

I see one house rule that could fix both of these problems, with two different forms. Both of them allow taking a Captain with Scout Armor for +0 points. They might get Scouts, Infiltrate, and Move Through Cover in exchange for swapping into weaker armor, they might not (depending on balance and cost). That's not the meat of the change. The meat of the change is going somewhat along the lines of the Captain mounted on a bike: a Scout Captain makes Storms more available. One possibility could be that the Storms count as Dedicated Transports for Scouts (allowing you to deploy Scouts in Storms, Deep Strike with a compliment of Scouts, and not take up Force Organization with Storms). The downside to this is that making Storms "free" in terms of Force Organization might be a little too good (though this remains to be seen with a pure Scout army). The other option would be to allow Scout Armies to take 1-3 Storms as a single Fast Attack choice. This probably wouldn't be quite as potentially unbalancing, but it would still allow a "Pure Scout" army to field enough Storms to move all his squads while still being able to field at least a few Scout Bikes.

 

Admittedly, I'd also like to see a way to deploy some kind of Scout Heavy Support (maybe a mortar team or tank-hunter team with meltaguns), but I think this would be workable enough to make a "Pure Scout" army really viable. (But I think this sort of thing is best for a house rules forum, not really here, so forgive my massive digression.)

 

 

I am concurent on this point of view. There are a few things that hinder a "pure scout force", one being the addition of a Scout HQ. One would be to Allow Telion as a HQ choice, the other and I agree with you Jackelope King would be to have a HQ that could be in Scout Armor, and limit his wargear acordingly to what Scouts can have (ala bike, scout command squad, power weapon or fist, hellfire rounds...you get it).

 

The thing I don't agree with is the addtion of the LSS as a dedicated transport. Scouts already get the option of inflitrate and outflank why would they need a dedicated transport? Mounting them at the begining of the game and moving them seems good enough for me. And as its been presented above, shouldn't we be using this list more like a game of chess? Manouverability and cunning is what will win you a battle with a all scout force. Gimmicks IMO will only get you "so far". I really like what GC08 did with his list. One full bike squad and two LSS's. Mobility, and you can still mount a squad (if they're alive) to contest/grab a late game objective.

 

Going back to your proposed #3 point. Instead of having a "Scout HQ" provide the LSS as a dedicated transport, why wouldn't a Scout HQ on a bike have the Scouts be able to mount on bikes also for a troops choice? The regular Capt can, so I wouldn't see it as a stretch for a Scout HQ and his "force".

 

Again these are just musing that I've thought of while reading this, and Dragonlady, thank you. Here I am just getting back into my Blood Angels, in the process of stripping 2000 points worth of models, and I'm on BitKingdom's website trying to price how much it would cost me to get a army started...

[Cadarn]

I think Dragonlady has a lot to answer for... :P