Sisters of Battle Land Raider

[Charred Heretic]

Impressive work, although I'd be surprised if this piece were accepted at most tournaments.

But if you've researched it to your own satisfaction, then so be it.

The model does nothing for me aesthetically, I think it tries to hard and insists on itself. It looks cobbled together ... and don't feel like they flow together.

The above description fits most of GWs tanks, if you ask me. This example is simply larger.

It's level of detail is consistent much of what we see on tables, especially for the Inquisition.

[Zelyre]

Its cool. Bulky, big, but pretty nifty. I'd love to see it painted.

 

Though, one thing that I don't quite like are the lascannons.

 

They're upside down. I don't think the power cables would have that nice bendy curve to them, they'd flop over from their own weight, I'd think...

[Tauren]

I'm sorry, but considering that land-raiders much like other vehicles are simply built on a frame, much like exorcists are build onto rhino's and are essentially holy relics in of themselves. Absolutely nothing is saying, fluff or otherwise, as to whether at some point a relic land-raider hull was altered to serve as a mobile fortress church for sisters or their groups. Whether you like it or not equipment is often lost to time and knowledge. Absolutely nothing is stopping a sisters order and their respective resources from resurrecting and reconsecrating the machine spirit and hull of a land-raider then rededicating it to their faith.

[Eddie Orlock]

The model does nothing for me aesthetically, I think it tries too hard and insists on itself. It looks cobbled together ... and don't feel like they flow together.

The above description fits most of GWs tanks, if you ask me. This example is simply larger.

It's level of detail is consistent much of what we see on tables, especially for the Inquisition.

The overall level of detail is tolerably consistant, but how it's presented is poor. Seldom are vehicles mismatched from side to side, for example this one has alcoves stuck to one 'sponson' and rags hanging off the other. This would have been better served if they'd all been alcoves, or all rags. Even the same mixture of alcoves and rags on each side. The alcoves could have been done better if their sides had been shaved and placed adjacent so that it looked like they were one contiguous piece.

 

My opinion of the decorations lining the top of the tread housings is similar, that there are decorations is wonderful, if only they matched from side to side.

 

Some of the large flat spaces, like the white panels on either side of the front gate, could have used some reliefs. This might be fixable with some mural-esq paint work, but relief arches, and supporters for the medalion would likely suit the model better.

Absolutely nothing is saying, fluff or otherwise, as to whether at some point a relic land-raider hull was altered to serve as a mobile fortress church for sisters or their groups. Whether you like it or not equipment is often lost to time and knowledge. Absolutely nothing is stopping a sisters order and their respective resources from resurrecting and reconsecrating the machine spirit and hull of a land-raider then rededicating it to their faith.

Well, fluff wise what should stop the Sororita is an Imperial decree from the time of the Heresy issued by the Emperor himself reserving all Land Raiders in current Imperial service for use by the Astartes. The same source of law from which Sororita spring, restricting men from serving in esselarchial forces, but predating that decree by thousands of years. Nevermind that being the pinicle of production imperial armour it contains systems scarcely understood by the Imperiums preminent technical organisation, the Adeptus Mechanicus, a group that isn't exactly on the best of terms with the Imperial Church. So I'd fictionally present two barriers, a legal, political, one, and a feasiblility, technical, one.

 

It's similar to why you don't see Imperial Guard Thunder-Bolts, those are Navy assets, or Space Marine titans, those are property of the admech. Per Robutes Codex, different Imperial forces have different toys to prevent another Horus.

 

I'd actually be considerably more comfortable with the idea of a sororita crewed Leman Russ, their a technically much simpler machine issued in far larger quantities to Imperial forces with no legal restrictions on their usage.

[jester_prince]

Its springs to mind...

http://www.lanceradvanced.com/Models/Images/Titan.jpg

 

Its an awsome tank with a few flaws, however for me i still love it, it fits with sisters well and while i agree with most others that the side sponsons are a little too big, they do not look wrong to me they just dont look right. Mabey bring them in a little they are perhaps a little too far from the raider center.

 

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/ilivefordeath/docthunderssisterLR.jpg

 

sorta like that. To me that looks better, though dude its your model and its still aswome to boot.

 

A moving catheidral is exactly what sisters need ^_^ even if you do not class it as a landraider its different enough you could claim it as something else. Ive seen titans built as tanks that look awsome and are technicaly tourny legal.

 

I agree with Eddie Orlock that the alchoves and banners need mixing up or balancing it does look slightly odd.

 

Very Very awsome conversion i love it, great sisters feel, reminds me of DoW style bases.

[Tauren]

Show me some info on this imperial "decree" because I have yet to see it. Already you are contradicting yourself in the simple fact that Daemon hunters have access to land-raiders that are not attached to grey knights. In fact the simple fact that sisters can and do serve the inquisition on a regular basis could easily, as with the use of the exorcist, have or acquired a relic land-raider based vehicle. Just because a vehicle is built off the land-raider frame does not make it a space marine standard land-raider. And much like the exorcist is rarely understood by the respective mechanicus that serve it, this mobile church fortress would be even less understood and more built upon the faith it reflects.

 

But show me where the Emperor decreed that land-raiders could only be used by space marines. Especially considering that the emperor also worked with aliens, actually cured and promised purification to ab-human and mutants and other such, more noble ideals that don't exist in the current imperium.

[Charred Heretic]

I agree with Eddie Orlock that the alchoves and banners need mixing up or balancing it does look slightly odd.

/partial disagree with both of you

 

Iconic asymmetry (banners, plaques, decals) does not bother me here, nor is it generally inconsistent with Cathedrals.

Structural asymmetry is a bit of a problem because it conflicts with the rest of the structure, which is obviously symmetric.

 

For example, in a church, you could have two different saints standing on a pedestal on each side of the altar.

The pedestals would be identical, but the content of the icon (the saints' bodies & faces) would not be identical.

The Saints would be similar in style, but they are distinctly different icons.

 

Or for another example, you might have a mural with cherubs and clouds to your right, and to your left

you might have an identical sized and framed mural with an earth scene with soldiers and swords.

 

That said, the only structural asymmetry that I can find on this LR is the fencing on the top left and right fenders.

Those pieces are not icons, they are detail of the structure.

 

Their dis-similarity does appear to be dictated by what pieces were available,

and it could be viewed as "forced" or haphazard". /Agree with EO and JP on that point.

 

As to the icons on the sponsons. I see three per sponson, similar in size and layout.

They are insufficiently "different" for me (personally) to find them at odds with the either this structure or its genre.

 

Absolute symmetry would be too much.

I completely disagree that it is a problem.

[Eddie Orlock]

Already you are contradicting yourself in the simple fact that Daemon hunters have access to land-raiders that are not attached to grey knights.

I don't see any contradictions here. In the deamon hunter codex, the colour schemes displayed for heavy support choice land raiders are exclusively in grey knight livery, indicating their intended to be perceived as grey knight vehicles, this is consistant with their side-bar fluff. A radical, knight-less, force is already depicted as an Inquisitors private army, potentially operating beyond the bounds of Imperial statutes, such a tank would either use the personal use exemption transport 'raiders invoke, or just be yet another one on the litany of crimes such an Inquisitor already ignores. However, while closely related, Canonesses aren't Inquisitors and can't ignore the laws like they can.

 

It all meshes seamlessly.

 

Were I not at work, I could search my library and find the referance to the restriction on Land Raider use, but sadly, I am.

 

The Iconic asymetry is more obvious here then it is in a large building, but also, things on opposite sides tend to be reflections of one another, at least in type. The saint in one alcove of the hall will generally be opposite a different one in the opposite alcove. Banners on either side of the entrance will be banners, they may show very different things, but fabric all the same.

 

Where asymetry ocures, there tends to be some historical reason, perhaps the original builder died prior to completion, or it was damaged in a war, or a supply source ran out, but most don't start out persuing a mismatch.

[Melissia]

And I'm tempted to get a land raider and modify it now, just so that Emelia Stone can ignore the decree and say "I am Canoness Emelia Stone, a leader amongst the Daughters of the Emperor. Dare you take away that which He has gifted to His children?" Cue menacing gunline of bolter-wielding Sororitas.

 

 

There's a lot of things one can get with money and the right connections. For example, Stone's Order protects an AdMech forgeworld (which is the second planet of their star system, while the Order's capital world is the third planet) which holds several STCs, including an important Power Weapon STC after which the order is named. I see no reason why, in payment for long-term protection from outside harm (the system is just outside the Maelstrom), the AdMech authorities on this planet wouldn't give her a token of gratitude such as a Land Raider.

[Doctor Thunder]

I think the banners on one wing and the plates on another wing was a good point, and I have already altered the model so that both wings have banners. I have also altered the top decorations to be symmetrical as well.

 

There's a lot of things one can get with money and the right connections.

Exactly. Attempting to argue that an organization as vast and wealthy as the Imperial Church could never secure and dedicate a Land Raider Chassis for their own use is an incredibly weak argument. Even if there was an Imperial Decree, that doesn't mean that it would always be obeyed. The Ecclesiarchy has a long and solid history of thumbing their noses at imperial decrees. Heck, even the creation of the Sisters of Battle themselves was a big middle-finger to the Administratum.

[Eddie Orlock]

And I'm tempted to get a land raider and modify it now, just so that Emelia Stone can ignore the decree and say "I am Canoness Emelia Stone, a leader amongst the Daughters of the Emperor. Dare you take away that which He has gifted to His children?" Cue menacing gunline of bolter-wielding Sororitas.

Well, if you want to get all 'In Character' about it, I'm certain that if Captain Jack of the Storm Angels third ever found himself in that vacinity and short of Xenos to purge he'd be more than pleased to have the opportunity to launch a surgical strike against such an affont to the divine will of the astartes spiritual father. Teleporting Terminators with Chainfists and Cyclones should be able to in-and-out such an armoury and hulk such an abomination in short order. Really though, arguing this will get us nowhere, it's like trying to argue, who's better Batman or Superman, it depends on the author and what he thinks will sell comics

... I see no reason why, in payment for long-term protection from outside harm ... the AdMech authorities on this planet wouldn't give her a token of gratitude such as a Land Raider.

Aside from incompatable cults and the near pathological dislike the organisations have for eachother?

I think the banners on one wing and the plates on another wing was a good point, and I have already altered the model so that both wings have banners. I have also altered the top decorations to be symmetrical as well.

Fun as it is to debate these things, have you taken new pictures yet?

There's a lot of things one can get with money and the right connections.

Exactly. Attempting to argue that an organization as vast and wealthy as the Imperial Church could never secure and dedicate a Land Raider Chassis for their own use is an incredibly weak argument. ...

Now we get in to the fuzzy area of what can, and what does, happen. In our current era, codex army lists outline what will normally be seen in such a factions most common armies. Marine armies normally revolve around tactical squads. Guard armies normally revolve around infantry platoons. 'Nid armies normally revolve around various hoards of gaunts. This isn't to say that in the back ground some chapter hasn't deployed its ninth company and laid waste with ten devastator squads, but it's not an option in the current armylists. This isn't to say that you don't see entire super-heavy gaurd companies, but this is not an option in the current armylists. This isn't to say that you don't see 'nid vanguards consisting entierly of harridans and gargoyls, but that's not a codex option.

 

So, while the 'large setting' justification may be invoked to attempt a rationalisation of just about anything, whether it should make it into a normal order of battle requires a tighter level of scruiteny. The best that things that fall outside the bounds of 'comonly found unit' do is make it into the appendex, or side-bars, as what have colloquially been refered to as 'Special Crutches'. Sure Karmazov has a giant walking throne, but he's a unique unit that appears in an appendix. Such kit isn't a standard bit of armour wargear.

 

From a meta-game perspective, I would point out the hue and cry that always arises when games development rewrites the armylists and gives one army a unit or rule from another. To use my own examples, back in third how my fellow gaurd players bemoaned GeeDub stealing our Demolisher cannons and giving them to the Marines, and more recently the fears that they would do the same with the Hellhounds inferno gun and the Land Raider Redeemer. I'm sure you can think of your own more personally relavent examples. Differentiation between lists is a good thing, lest the sisters become 'mearly marines with less toughness'.

 

I think it would be a fabulous gaming opportunity to have Edward von Orlock call upon his Storm Angel allies via the Deathwatch to prosecute the heresies of the Imperial church over stepping their legal equipment bounds and play a match with the mission objective of destroying that tank as a senerio piece(and maybe the army commander who perpetrated the crime).

[Lion in the Stars]

Doc T: Any new details on the white plasticard center section?

 

Pics, man, pics!

[Marid]

While I appreciate the work and considerable expense in building this, it just looks wrong. I can't help thinking of it has an ork looted vehicle. A LR is like a sports car: it has angular lines. This breaks all of them. The assault ramp is gone and replaced with a rectangular box with arched door. The sponsons likewise break the lines of the chassis. The Exorcist missile launchers probably would have worked without the door and sponsons because they would continue the line of original tank. But it is just a mishmash.

 

Game wise, I'm not sure what you do with it. Do you play it as an Exorcist? An inquisitorial LR? Either way you have to say that one set of main guns is just for show. It would also be difficult to maneuver through terrain because of its wide profile. And it is a bigger target.

 

I have to categorize it as art. Not all art works for all people. *shrug*

[Melissia]

Aside from incompatable cults and the near pathological dislike the organisations have for eachother?

You're really misled on how much they may or may not dislike eachother. Like it or not, the Ecclesiarchy and the Adeptus Mechanicus deal with eachother on a routine basis. The Sisters certainly can do daily maintenance of their equipment and vehicles, for example, but who do you think does any in-depth repairs or actual production?

 

That's right, the AdMech.

 

Indeed, the Exorcist itself is actually well-known to require AdMech supervision because of its finicky design, and the Ecclesiarchy needs the AdMech to do the arco-flagellation process and maintain its penitent engines for punishment of criminals. The AdMech and the Church have a long history of dealing with eachother on if not freindly, at least grudgingly equal terms. Favor for a favor is the way the Imperium is run.

 

 

And I'm certain Captain Jack would get his derriere handed to him. The Order of the Sapphire Blade has dealt with more than their fair share of CSM raiders, and CSMs are actually considered more skilled by most than the average SM chapter ;) The star systems they protect rest on the edge of the Maelstrom. Inside of which are countless Hrud infestations, twenty plus different ork empires, countless human pirates, the Astral Claws/Red Corsairs, and the Word Bearers.

[number6]

@Eddie Orlock and Melissia:

 

I really don't want to enforce the newer, harsher sentences the B&C board admins have seen fit to impose. Please cease your off-topic comments immediately. Take it to PM, if you must continue. This topic is all about Doctor Thunder's model. A full-on fluff discussion will not be allowed here.

[Charred Heretic]

A LR is like a sports car: it has angular lines.

Sorry mate, but I've got to refute this one in full.

 

A LR is certainly not like a sports car.

Its lines are closer to a shoebox, and its aerodynamics are little better than a snowplow.

It's a space-age bulldozer.

[Marid]

A LR is like a sports car: it has angular lines.

Sorry mate, but I've got to refute this one in full.

 

A LR is certainly not like a sports car.

Its lines are closer to a shoebox, and its aerodynamics are little better than a snowplow.

It's a space-age bulldozer.

 

Well, it is not a shoe-box. The front and rear of a LR are tapered sharply. A Rhino is closer to a shoe-box, but even it has a sloped front. A Rhino is a mini-van. But it doesn't really matter, the point is that the lines of the LR have been broken.

[Tauren]

A LR is like a sports car: it has angular lines.

Sorry mate, but I've got to refute this one in full.

 

A LR is certainly not like a sports car.

Its lines are closer to a shoebox, and its aerodynamics are little better than a snowplow.

It's a space-age bulldozer.

 

Well, it is not a shoe-box. The front and rear of a LR are tapered sharply. A Rhino is closer to a shoe-box, but even it has a sloped front. A Rhino is a mini-van. But it doesn't really matter, but point is that the lines of the LR have been broken.

 

I would ask what a chimera is but that would be getting off topic, like the recent posts guys. Back on topic por favor. In general though I think that the actual device itself needs sisters riding on top. Kind of a Command post for the sisterhood. But that's just me.

[jester_prince]

A LR is like a sports car: it has angular lines.

Sorry mate, but I've got to refute this one in full.

 

A LR is certainly not like a sports car.

Its lines are closer to a shoebox, and its aerodynamics are little better than a snowplow.

It's a space-age bulldozer.

 

 

What he means is the model is balanced the lines are organised and layed out to compliment each other, the thing might not be streamlined but it is designed in a fashion to look good. Even bulldozers are designed to look astheticaly pleasing (in a way) aswell as functional. I dont think this models design has been upset too much, the lines and angles are still being obeyed for the most part, its just a little out of proportion.

[Doctor Thunder]

Fun as it is to debate these things, have you taken new pictures yet?

I'm painting it now, so I'll post up some nice pics in the showcase section once it's done in a few weeks. ;)

[number6]

I'm painting it now, so I'll post up some nice pics in the showcase section once it's done in a few weeks. :P

Be sure to leave a cross-link here, Dr T. I can't wait to see how it turns out.