Descent on X Legion

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Hmm, the extra armour on the Raider will probably not be used much I admit in 5th ed and I was going to drop it for the 1750 list anyway.

 

Well, it is dirt cheap and keeps the Raider moving, but on the other hand it only negates 1 result on the damage table to something less problematic (shaken). You needed to lose 5 points somewhere to get the extra GKT.

 

An extra GKT never hurt and dropping the frags wouldn't bee too bad(one of the squads will be in the Crusader so already has them). PA2&3 will tend to be close to the enemy before they get out so I'm not too concerned about targeters on these but they do provide options.

 

Targeters are awesome. It's not just for pre-measuring shooting; you can also pre-measure assault distances, judge an enemy unit's threat radius (ie how far away are they, can they close to close-combat in one go etc)...it's an invaluable tool. They're being phased out of armies as GW updates them to 5th edition, so for now (and the foreseeable future) we get a unique advantage (I think IG Stormtroopers are the only other unit that can get them). The frags are kinda redundant, because A: Only Justicar benefits and B: Crusader already grants the same bonus to the whole squad.

I'm seriously considering trying Holocaust on the BC (not the squad) to help against hoards. I've had limited success with it in the past but yet to use it in 5th.

 

I would argue against it, actually. An incinerator is always a better option, if you need template death against hordes. Holocaust needs a substantial re-adjustment on the power scale, it's just too weak and you risk too much (it being a psychic power). Its also a tad too expensive. So, I don't see the need in your army list (you already have two incinerators+Crusaders to deliver them to counter horde rush).

 

Appreciate the advice Reclusiarch Darius.

 

Not a problem dude, glad I could be of service :D

[iamnothere]

Ok here's the list for Tuesdays game, I know it's not 1750 but I'm waiting for another Crusader to arrive from Titan.

 

BC (psycannon) + 5 GKT (psycannon, TH/SS) 346pts

 

Squad Divinitus, 10 PAGK (2 psycannons, targeter) 326pts

Squad Pyre, 5 PAGK (incinerator, targeter) 161pts

Squad Fury, 5 PAGK (incinerator, targeter) 161pts

 

Crusader, 255pts

Godhammer, 250pts

 

My intent is to form a fire base in an appropriate location with Divinitus whilst Fury and Pyre travel around in the Raiders looking for targets. The GKT will act as either long range fire support or go objective contesting depending on the mission.

 

I decided to leave Holocaust out for the time being but couldn't resist the TH/SS - I AM THE HAMMER!

[iamnothere]

Wow, what a game! I thought I'd lost it at the end of turn 1 but emerged Victorious after turn 7!

 

I took the above list and fought this Tau list played by an experienced player:

 

Commander (twin plasma, shield gen) and bodyguard with twin plasma.

Stealths 1 (5 suits)

Stealths 2 (5 suits)

Piranah (2 seekers)

4 Squads of 8 fire warriors (1 markerlight)

3 individual Broadsides with smart missiles.

 

 

11 or 12 Kp to my 6 or 7.

 

Right from the off I was worried about the broadsides and rightly so as turn 1 proved <_< . My other big worry was his plasma toting HQ, boy I suffered when these boys showed up.

 

The mission was annialation with pitched battle deployment and I chose to go first (that way at least I'd get one turn of shooting before I started to lose Land Raiders).

 

Terrain, from left to right was as follows:

 

Low hill, large open area offering no cover, 8" wood.

Gap, rocks, gap, low hill, gap, rock pile, gap.

Low hill, large ruins, barricade, small ruins, hill.

 

I've used a different method to describe the terrain this time I hope people can understand how I've done it.

 

I deployed squad Diviniatus in the small ruins with the Godhammer carrying Fury to its' right and the Crusader carrying Pyre on the left of the ruins. I elected to DS my HQ.

 

This forced him to deploy in a lot of open ground, he decided to DS his HQ and flank march both Stealth squads. He put his first broadside (BS1) by the low hill on the left and placed a squad of fire warriors (FW1) in front for some cover. About a third of the way in from the left he did a similar deployment for BS2 and FW2, the same again for BS3 and FW3just to the left of the 8" wood. FW4 went in the wood and the Piranah went behind. So he had the range on me but couldn't really concentrate his firewarriors.

 

I'll post the battle tomorrow

[iamnothere]

Game on! He tried to sieze the initiative but failed to my relief.

 

I don't have much to manouver with an army of my size so my turns go quick. I advanced the Godhammer and targetted BS2 & 3. Missing both I realised that I was now in a spot of bother as nothing else had the range to get them :P. I advance the Crusader 12" towards FW 2 with the Hurricanes and Assault cannon taking down 5. Divinitus opened up from the ruins and killed 4 in FW3. They all passed the morale checks but apart from not touching the broad sides a good start.

 

He decided to keep static with everything and BS3 took out the Godhammer! ;) I knight died in the wreckage as well. Ok I thought I can live with that. FW 3 & 4 opened up on the remains of squad Fury reducing them to 3, unfortunatly they took out the incinerator.

 

Things now got sureal as BS2 popped the Crusader in 1 shot! :) Well squad Pyre jumped out less a guy dead in the wreckage and got shot down to 2 men by FW2.

 

Absolutly disasterous first turn my opponent couldn't apologise enough ( whilst we both laughed our heads off at lady luck )!

 

I needed to do somthing drastic to turn this game around, I was heavily outnumbered by Xenos scum, had no anti armour left and was being assaulted on all fronts.

 

Situation excellent, I orderd the ATTACK!

 

My GKT arrived and rather than be defensive, I opted to DS them around the large concentration of enemy troops just to the right of a group of rocks on my left flank. When they turned up they immediatly took out ALL of FW1. Pyre tried to assist against FW2 but they made their saves. I moved Fury towards FW4 but caused no casualties. Squad Divinatus again targetted FW3 for 2 casualties.

 

None of his reserves arrived to my relief. He moved BS1 left onto the flank and away fron the GKT and shot them, FW2 rapid fired, BS2 fired and the Piranah seeker missiled causing a grand total of 1 dead GKT! :) The worm was turning. FW3 took down squad Pyre and FW4 wiped out squad Fury.

 

End of turn 2 and it's 4 KP to 1 in his favour but things are changing!

[iamnothere]

The fightback continues!

 

Instead of firing at a single unit I hold back with the GKT and assault both FW2 and BS1, wiping out the FW but the BS passes 5 of 6 invulnerable saves - Result! :P Locked in combat with a 1 wound Tau unit! Divinatus finally wipe out FW 3.

 

This time a unit of Stealths arrive close to Divinatus on my right flank luckily they're too far away to fire. BS1 manouvers more around on the left and the Piranah takes cover behind the 8" forest. My GKT finish off the BS and consolidate towards the centre of the table - closer to more enemy units and away from any pesky Stealths should they show up.

 

From staring defeat in the face in turn 1 I've turned it around and am in an aggressive position and tied on KP!

 

So I start turn 4 with the GKT advancing from my left to right and wasting BS2. Divinatus similarly open up on FW4 in the 8" forest taking 4 from them. I chose them for 2 reasons, one, they had worse saves than the Stealths and two, I didn't need to roll to see them.

 

Now the rest of his reserves arrive with Stealths 2 arriving on the left, miles away from anything to worry about. His HQ however drop on the low hill in the centre and plasma 5 GKT from existance ;) . I can salvage some good news from this :P as wound allocation meant that the Brother Captain died before the whole squad so didn't give up a KP! The rest of his shooting is happily ineffective and only wastes a GK from Divinitus before the Stealths1 jump back behind the rocks on my right.

 

We end turn 4 with the balance firmly shifted but the game all to play for at 4 KP to 5 in my favour.

[iamnothere]

The End game, turn 5 onwards...

 

Realising I was in the poo with the GKT I did all I could and charged the Tau HQ with my lone TH/SS GKT. In hindsight I could have left him out in the open so they would need to waste fire on him. He did nothing with the number of Tau attacks taking him down before he could even hit.

 

Divinatus did much better and again targetted FW4 for 2 casualties, they failed their moral check and ran ;)

 

He brought his HQ towards Divinatus and plasmad the squad but failed to wound. Stealths1 also jumped in and this time took out the Justicar and another PAGK before jumping back.

 

Right now it's a KP to me but we rolled for an extra turn and played on. There was no way I was going to target the stealths and instead took a wound off the bodyguard and another off the commander.

 

This time his shooting took more of a toll on Divinatus as they held out in the ruins reducing them to 2 stormbolters and a psycannon.

 

We moved into turn 7 and I NEEDED to keep Divinatus alive - the Stealths were the main threat rather than the HQ so I decided to put some more distance between the Stealths and shuffled 5" to the left. Before taking another 2 wounds off the Bodyguard and reducing the commander to 1.

 

Now the Stealths fire first but only 3 are in range, they cause a single casualty :P relief. Now the suits and I have 3 saves to make from plasma death...

 

:P the dice gods are with me and 4+ cover saves make the day!

 

The game is mine!

[iamnothere]

Well after taking a massive loss in turn 1 when both Landraiders popped turning the game around was a struggle. My only real option was to go from a defensive posture to a very aggressive one.

 

I knew after deployment that unless the Tau commander came down first then the GKT were lost because of plasma; but in the 2 turns they were alive they took back 3 KP.

 

The experiment with squad Divinatus worked wonders and they are now a staple. Still not sure how effective the 2 small squads in Raiders will be as they got taken out befor I could try the tactic.

 

Will have to see how they perform in the next game.

[krewl]

Just keep those reports comming, I really like your style of reporting the battle, and I can see them developing clearly in my mind.

 

Please keep up the good work and dang... that last battle made me feel tense even though I started with reading you did win, I could still feel the tension. ;)

 

Looking forward to your reports with the 3rd raider, especially as I have the units for the lists you play aswell.

[iamnothere]

Thanks for the intrest, I was beginning to wonder if it was worth carrying on with the reports.

 

My next scheduled game is the Tuesday after Christmass so I hope you'll hold out for it.

 

As it'll be the last game with only 2 Raiders I'm going to try a new tactic and hope it works but more on that closer to the time - after I've thought it through.

 

I'm glad you liked the narrative style, it's a bit more lively than the "this moved, then that moved, then this shot, then that shot" sequence these things can degenerate into; it's why I split the reports down into several posts.

 

Cheers :P

[YourMumRang]

I saw this on Warseer but thought it was a Guard thing!

 

This is very useful for me as I am looking into GK and trying to decide between them and Deathwing. Ho hum...

 

Anyway, do you keep your GK all together in one lump? I think that would be the way to go as creating a no-go zone for the enemy would be nice. Are you also using your Land Raiders to block LOS? How is that working out?

 

Also you have inspired me to make some GKT as that tri-Psy squad pumps out some very solid firepower. But only at 2k.

[iamnothere]

Malcheks thread on Warseer is a Guard thing, he runs the X Legion tournies. This is my build up for the next one in Febuary 09.

 

I've tried keeping my GK in one lump but as we lack rapid mobility this isn't a game winner for me. This is also the reason why I use an almost static squad, maxed out, as a fire base. This does create a no go area that I try to flank with at least one Raider.

 

Blocking LOS with Landraiders works best when your opponent is either a static force or has limited mobility. In the last game this wasn't possible as both were taken out in turn 1. When you use LOS blocking with the shrouding - ie block the closer unit instead of a more powerful unit further away then it really can pay off.

 

The tri psycannon unit puts out a lot of nasty firepower and is incredibly tactical. Having the ability to split your HQ from it to go hunting weak units is excellent.

[YourMumRang]

I was thinking more of using both LR to totally block LOS to one section of the army whilst you focus on another (preferable the bit with the anti-tank). I've been thinking of a list which involves the bubble principle that the lads on the Deathwing thread over on Warseer use. Keeping your troops concentrated and pouring out obscene amounts of storm bolter fire and using the Raiders as walls.

[iamnothere]

Should work quite well, especially as we now have the SM machine spirit on our Landraiders. Drive a wedge between the opposition and slaughter your chose section with storm bolter fire.

 

Not tried it myself but I imagine it would work well against hoardes.

[iamnothere]

Well I've been taking a look at my list and how its' been playing and decided I need to do somthing more with my HQ / GKT set up.

 

I like the fact that its' got 2 psycannons but want more out of the squad.

 

Have a look at these 2 set ups, they 're KP neutral, is the extra psycannon worth dropping that GKT for?

 

1st setup:

 

BC with psycannon, +4 GKT (retinue) with 1 psycannon: 300pts

 

2nd setup:

 

BC with psycannon (HQ)

BC with psycannon (elites) +2 GKT with 1 psycannon: 299pts

 

I get an extra psycannon I can place anywhere but lose a GKT, is it worth it?

[krewl]

Hard to say.

 

My gues is it will be better with the extra psycannon most of the time, and you have the option of separating a psycannon and targetting a separate target.

You lose SB shots (not very good most of the time you will not miss these.) but you also lose 3 S6 powerweapon attacks and a 2+/5+ wound. (Which could be a problem)

 

You gain 3 S6 inv. save ignoring shots on a mobile platform (For a threat range of 42").

Like I said, it would depend on the game and enemy you play, but I expect it to be a good change.

(But then I like my psycannons, I've been know to inlude 2x4 GKTs with 2 Psycannons and a BC with a psycannons.

(I even build a psycannon for one of my inquisitor models) (Told you I like them :tu: )

[iamnothere]

Thanks Krewl, good to have your advice.

 

The psycannon is one of the few unique weapons we get and I like its' tactical flexibility.

[iamnothere]

Well here's to the last game of 2008 and it will be the last one with 1500pts. January I move on up to 1750 for the final prep. As some of the people I play are also going to the tourny I wont be using all the final formations in each of the run up games, I wouldn't want to show my hand too early.

 

HQ:

Brother Captian with psycannon. 91pts

 

Elite:

BC +2 GKT, 2 psycannons. 208pts

Inquisitor, boltpistol & CCW +2 Mystics. 34pts

 

Troops:

Squad Maxim: Justicar, targeter & frags, 9 PAGK, 2 psycannons. 327pts

Squad Fury: Justicar, targeter & frags, 9 PAGK, 2 incinerators. 297pts

 

Heavy:

Land Raider Phoebos, extra armour. 255pts

Land Raider Crusader. 255pts

 

Total: 1467. The rest of the points are already accounted for in a 1750 list, so there's nothing I really want to add right now.

 

The grand master plan is to have Maxim set up as a fire base supported by the Inquisitor in the Phoebos; the GKT squad will satellite around the same area making a no go zone. Fury will deploy in the Crusader and look for suitable targets of opportunity, maybe the BC will join them as well.

 

That's it. Everything else will depend on the game.

[SamaNagol]

I'm curious as to why you want to run 3 LRs when one of them is going to be empty. LRs only make their points back when they perform their rpimary role which is delivering 250+pts worth of short range death to it's desired destination wrapped snuggly in cotton wool and shrinkwrap.

 

The points would be better spent on Dreadnoughts and/or bulking up your PAGK units imo.

[iamnothere]

The final list I'm working towards will see squad Fury broken down into 2, 5 man units. This will increase my scoring units by 50% and as they will be relatively small the LRs will offer them a significant ammount of protection.

 

It's also a fire power issue. The only comparable unit for fire power at 250pts is 9 PAGK with 18 shots to the crusaders 16 shots of which 15 are twin linked. I don't rate dreads in this type of GK list but do in other types, notably my GKT heavy lists.

[iamnothere]

Well I've just had a quite intense game against a good player and his Necrons. He brought a Hard list for one like mine to face, every single gun he had could glance my Raiders and after seeing him deploy I had a sinking feeling, here's the list: :(

 

Destroyer Lord, res orb and somthing that gave him 2d6 penetration against vehicles. :jaw:

10 Warriors (W1)

10 Warriors (W2)

5 Destroyers (D1)

5 Destroyers (D2)

2 Heavy Destroyers (HD1)

2 Heavy Destroyers (HD2)

3 Tomb Spiders (TS 1,2 & 3)

 

:eek Phase out at 8. 10 KP.

 

Like I said, a nasty list and just what I needed to test myself against. The battlefield looked a bit like this from my table edge:

 

Gap, tower in rough terrain, 2' gap, 6" wood, gap, 8" square ruin.

Large hill, 2' gap, 2 storey ruin, gap, ruin, barricade, gap.

Ruin, 15" wall like feature, barricade, 2' gap, barricade, 2' gap.

 

We rolled for mission, Annialation ( ;) again, next time I'm going to insist on some type of objective game as I need the practice at those) and pitched battle. He won the dice off and set up first, unsurprisingly he chose the side with more cover/ terrain.

 

He set up D1, HD1 and TS1 behind the tower with Warriors 1 and the Lord just to its right. W2 and TS2 set up behind the 6" wood. D2 and HD2 set up behind the building in with TS3. Good deployment of his units with plenty of cover in case I stole the initiative. The range of his destroyers was my big worry and the weight of fire he could dish out. Getting KPs wouldn't be easy in this game.

 

Straight away I realised that the Inquisitor combo I'd brought to test was completely wasted as nothing was Dsing :) . I deployed the Phoebos with the Inq just right of my centre in front of the barricade but behind a ruin. I placed squad Maxim in the gap to its right with the GKT squad behind them. There was a barricade 2-3 inches in front of both these squads. I placed Fury and my BC in the Crusader and deployed them on my right flank.

 

In deployment he'ed split his army down the middle and created 2 castles that had good fields of fire. I decided with my deployment to deny him any easy targets and played a refused flank on the right. I chose this side as it had more LOS blocking terrain with the 2 big ruins in the centre and a building.

 

I knew I'd never protect the Raiders but thought I had a good chance of keeping my GK alive...

[Refyougee]

Haha, I'm eagerly awaiting the next installment. Tell me you stole the initiative!

[iamnothere]

Seconds out round 1!

 

True to form I failed to sieze the initiative and the implacable advance of the 'Crons started. D1, HD1 and TS1 all advanced in front of the tower on the left and Gaussed both lascanons fron the Phoebos, which was a bummer. About now I started thinking "thank god for that extra armour". Normally I don't buy it for this one, in this game it saved my bacon. He must have had 5 glancing hits just from this bunch firing.

 

Warriors 1 stayed where they were and the Lord scooted over towards Warriors 2. D2 and HD2 moved into the far right corner; then they fired down the right of the building at the Crusader knocking the multimelta out of action, somthing like 4 glancing hits.

 

Well I knew it would be an uphill battle against this much Gauss but :tu: all I can say is extra armour ftw, its kept me in the game :P

 

There was no way to get any KP sitting back in a shootimg match so I rolled Phoebos 12" forward, around the ruin - this effectivly blocked all LOS to its' left flank. Squad Maxim rolled snake eyes to get over the barrier and did a 1" shuffle. I barrelled the Crusader up 12" to the immediate right of the 8" building and took down none of the destroyers. The GKT squad moved around the right of the barrier to their front and downed a warrior from squad 2!

 

First blood to me <_< only casualty in the whole of turn 1, he even had the good grace to fail his WBB.

[iamnothere]

Turn 2 came and he manouvered both squads of warriors sideways to my left, so they had some distance between me and them.

 

His Lord tucked in next to TS2 behind the wood. He moved D1, HD1 & TS1 towards his table edge for some shooting but couldn't draw LOS to the Phoebos so had the HD1 go for the Crusader (no effect). D2 & HD2 moved back to fire down the gap to the left of the 8" building, taking the heavy bolter from the Phoebos ^_^ . He moved TS3 into the same building to be in cover but out of LOS.

 

Now it started to get interesting.

 

The Phoebos now only had 1 function - LOS block; forward into the gap between the ruin and the wood it went, blocking 2/3rds of his army from shooting at most of my units :P

 

The Crusader went 12" sideways and put itself to the right of the Phoebos and the left of the 8" building. For the second time in the game I debated heavily on deploying Fury and the BC from inside. In the end it would have left them too exposed to massed fire so they stayed on board. The Crusader also took down a Heavy destryer with its assault cannon - result!

 

As both Maxim and the GKT were unable to get LOS to TS3 they ran up behind the Crusader. The speed of the Crusaders had surprised him as normally people would sit back and shoot with these beasts.

 

End of turn 2 with minimal casualties on both sides and not a single KP gained or lost. :blink:

[iamnothere]

We moved into turn three with both of us looking for advantage and a KP. He started with moving D2 back towards the far right corner but split HD2 from them and sent them behind the forest to be with the warriors. D1, HD1 and TS1 all moved infront of W1 as it shuffled more to my left. The destroyers succeeded in immobilising the Phoebos but can't manage to finish it off. TS2 moves forward in the wood but is unable to assault the Phoebos. His Lord also tries to assault but misses.

 

I take some time to consider the field and the mission. I need KP so my obvious targets arn't what can really hurt me, they're what I can kill quickly. That makes it tomb spiders, heavy destroyers and the Lord.

 

I deploy my Brother Captain from the right of the crusader - his target TS3 in the ruins. A psycannon and a charge should finish him off I thought, bound to get 2 wounds :cuss . I do nothing and lose the BC in combat to a Tomb spider.

I deploy Fury from the front of the Crusader and manouver through the wood to target the Lord. As TS2 is between us this is tricky but I want to charge both units. I take a wound off the Lord in shooting, charge into both the Lord and the Spider forcing a wound on both. The spider strikes back and takes out a GK. The lord doesn't go for the squad but for the Phoebos and after however many glancing hits its' taken, it gets destroyed :huh: . It had done its' job admirably and soaked up a tonne of fire. I lost a mystic in the wreckage and disembarked the Inquisitor on its right out of LOS as this is the easiest KP in my list.

 

Meanwhile I'd moved Maxim up and embarked them into the Crusader, as this hadn't moved I then went 12" forward towards his far right corner and D2. The Hurricanes and donkey gun succeed in taking down 2 of them with an astonishing hail if fire. :tu: The GKT had moved to the right of the 8" building and opened up as well but did nothing.

 

So turn 4 started with the awsome TS3 (the one that killed my BC) taking another scalp in the form of my inquisitor and retinue, another KP down <_< . D2 moved to the right of the Crusader, to reduce fire from the GKT before opening up on it to no effect. It also took all of the heavy destroyers fire and D1s' fire as they manouvered into a solid block of gauss fire with the warrior squads. This block was in the 2' gap in his deployment zone and looked scary. All that happened to the Crusader? We lost the donkey gun B) .

 

His Lord now turned his attention on squad Fury taking them down to 7 PAGK. In return, "Hell hath no Fury..." :devil: and both the Lord and TS2 go down! Only 1 Kp behind now, unfortunatly I rolled 2" for consolidation so decided that TS3 would be a better target next turn than that solid block of troops.

 

My turn 4 started with a change of direction for the Crusader as I moved it at full speed towards the massive block of troops and stuff using the Hurricanes target W2 for a single casualty. . I jump Maxim out and unload everything they have into the lone HD - nothing :cuss

 

The GKT move back around the 8" building using the Phoebos to block LOS and take a wound off TS3. Squad Fury also manouver to catch both TS3 and D2 in a charge. Shooting D2 did nothing, everything saved! Luckily for me though, weight of S6 attacks brought both units down!

[iamnothere]

WBB happens at the start of each turn and the most significant one out there is the Lord, to my relief he fails it. :tu:

 

All 3 heavy destroyers and W1 open up on the Crusader but to my relief it's only shaken, many times. D1 and W2 gun down 7 from squad Maxim in reply ;) Happily that was everything that coud fire so I had a chance to save the unit.

 

I jumped Maxim back into the Crusader and tankshocked W2 right in front of me. If he'ed of failed the test then the squad would have been off the table, instead they passed. I lined Fury up by the building in the gap with the GKT and tried to fire at the closest units. Only the GKT were actually in range with the psycannons but caused no wounds.

 

We rolled a 2 and the game finished there. We tallied up the results and I'd killed 2 tomb spiders, his Lord and a squad of destroyers for 4 KP. In return he'ed killed my BC, Inqisitor and a Raider - 3KP! :drool:

 

What a result! After looking at the list at the start I thought I'd have my butt handed to me.