ORKS....

[lunchb0x]

Okay...local league game...

 

I brought 1500pnts of wolves...2 full grey hunter squads, with p fists and p weapons, as well as melta/flamer between the two...1 rhino, 1 drop pod, 2 dreads, long fangs ( 1 h.bolter, 1m.launcher, 2xp.cannon ) whirlwind, and 1 lord and chappy.

 

Opponent...Played more then me pnts wise...lower points better score for the battle in league...

 

he had 3 trucks on crack ( front armour 14 trucks...whatever those are called ) 2 10 man units of nobs with 5+ invulvs, and feel no pain, and a 5 man squad of nobs in ork termy armour...

 

His termy orks never saw combat, I imobed his truck so they got stuck on the other side of the board...turn 1 he was on me!! 13inches dumped out and assualted me!! ACK!!! I only faced 2 of his squads, but damn they hurt!!

 

So needless to say, he took everything off the table by turn 6, but yet I didnt even wipe out 1 squad...nor get it below 50%...Mind you I just thought I was playing typical horde ork army...

 

What could I add to the army to make it stand up a bit better?

 

Normal armies the list I have will stand up no problem and knock down a few armies...

 

I was thinking of 6 man squads with 1 WG to help bolster in HtH, as well as instead of Long Fangs, do a body guard for chappy with heavy weapons as well as adding in another rhino/drop pod and a small unit of BC to go with Lord in a DP...

 

I would appreciate some input and help on this!!

[Wolf89]

There are other posts about beating orks, I suggest a searchy to get other's advice quickly instead of waiting for them to post in the next few days.

 

My input is going to recommend bloodclaws. They have lots of attacks, they'll go first, kill a LOT and have enough power fists to take out the big boyz if they're in there.

 

As for those uber trucks you were speaking of, those are battlewagons I believe, nasty buggers, especially with death rollers, but last time I faced orks I had some MM speeders (others recommend attack bikes, those will work too) and popped them early on near his deployment zone.

 

Long fangs are a no no and shouldn't be taken, get more whirlwinds/vindis/preds, they're a far better use of heavy support slots.

[Jonny Wolf]

My good friend plays a similliar list:

 

1x Nobz Biker squad with Pain boy (feel no pain), Warboss and boss banner pole. About 10 dudes.

5+ Invul

4+ cover (all the time due to the exhaust smoke)

3+ cover when they turbo boost

3x twin linked strenght 5 shots on their bikes, so 30 shots - about 10 to 12 will wound.

3x Power Claw

War boss had Power Claw.

They have furious charge.

Oh! Did I mention they all have two wounds.

 

Then he has Grazkull with a nob squad w/ pain boy in a battle wagon with a def roller.

 

And then another battle wago with def roller (D6 x str10 attacks) with a squad (20+ boyz) in it.

 

I am CONVINCED that this list is broken and somehow got by the play testers.

 

So yeah, I brought a vindicator onto his bike squad, hit 6 of them...one orc died.

 

the only way I ever took out the bike squad was with an insane Ragnar and wolf guard and he happened to charge me.

(and it still took two rounds).

Ragnar

WG w/ TLLC and great company banner, WTN and WP, TDA

WG w/ HF, PW, TDA, WTN, WP

WG w/ HF, PW, TDA, WTN, WP

WG w/ HF, PW, TDA, WTN, WP

WG w/ PW, SS, WTN, WP

WG w/ PW, SS, WTN, WP

WG w/ PW, SS, WTN, WP

[lunchb0x]

Wolf89

I am sorry but did you read the part of...every ork in his army had invulnerable saves...it didnt matter if I had power fists or not...when everything has an invulnerable save.

[Wolf89]

Wolf89

I am sorry but did you read the part of...every ork in his army had invulnerable saves...it didnt matter if I had power fists or not...when everything has an invulnerable save.

 

It matters when you only need 2's to wound T6 and T5 models, as well as the ability to punch through his vehicle's armor like it was swiss cheese. :)

[Wulff]

Okay...local league game...

 

I brought 1500pnts of wolves...2 full grey hunter squads, with p fists and p weapons, as well as melta/flamer between the two...1 rhino, 1 drop pod, 2 dreads, long fangs ( 1 h.bolter, 1m.launcher, 2xp.cannon ) whirlwind, and 1 lord and chappy.

 

Opponent...Played more then me pnts wise...lower points better score for the battle in league...

 

he had 3 trucks on crack ( front armour 14 trucks...whatever those are called ) 2 10 man units of nobs with 5+ invulvs, and feel no pain, and a 5 man squad of nobs in ork termy armour...

 

His termy orks never saw combat, I imobed his truck so they got stuck on the other side of the board...turn 1 he was on me!! 13inches dumped out and assualted me!! ACK!!! I only faced 2 of his squads, but damn they hurt!!

 

So needless to say, he took everything off the table by turn 6, but yet I didnt even wipe out 1 squad...nor get it below 50%...Mind you I just thought I was playing typical horde ork army...

 

What could I add to the army to make it stand up a bit better?

 

Normal armies the list I have will stand up no problem and knock down a few armies...

 

I was thinking of 6 man squads with 1 WG to help bolster in HtH, as well as instead of Long Fangs, do a body guard for chappy with heavy weapons as well as adding in another rhino/drop pod and a small unit of BC to go with Lord in a DP...

 

I would appreciate some input and help on this!!

 

 

Sounds nasty.. okee i';m going to assume two things.. one is he had a warboss with one nob squad to make it into a troop choice? and he was running the old nobs with painboy for the FNP..

 

if you are having to deal with orks.. i suggest a little change..

try a ironclad dread with heavy flamer in a drop pod.. it works wonders on lootas heavy weapons.. or against shooty ork types..

 

Remember that feel no pain doesn;t apply to power weapon attacks or anything that does insta killing and keep him out of range from assault for the first turn..

 

lastly remember ork boss do not have retinues or command squads.. so they are Independant characters and treat them as such.. if he is using a Ghaz.. or Warboss.. or Mad Doc.. you can single them out and put your powerfist on them..

helps to kill them then the squad becomes a little more easier to deal with..

 

lastly..Landraiders.. thats its.. just landraiders.. orks hate them now.. and with good reason.. its the 14 armor all over.. as long as u use them they cut down battlewagons and shooty orks can;t touch them from a distance..

also they do a number on meganobs..

 

hope this helps..

 

good hunting

 

Wulff

[lunchb0x]

Wulff

 

Thanks for the info, but can I take an IronClad with Space Wolves list?

 

He hit me 2nd turn, and with a front armour 14, not much I could really do to his wagons...shooting wise...

 

This list just really has me a bit ...uhm...crosseyed? Most lists I can think of what to take to beat them but this one...really has me confused. With 3 armour 14 wagons, invulns, and 2 wounds a piece units...I really dont know how to beat it...and striking at strength 7 all the time as well...forgot about that one...man that really hurt!

[lunchb0x]

Wolf89

I am sorry but did you read the part of...every ork in his army had invulnerable saves...it didnt matter if I had power fists or not...when everything has an invulnerable save.

 

It matters when you only need 2's to wound T6 and T5 models, as well as the ability to punch through his vehicle's armor like it was swiss cheese. :)

 

 

Only problem is I never got to hth with any of his vehicles, he ended up charging me and slaughtering everything...I mean seriously...it wasnt even a fun game! and I always have fun playing this player!! I actually look forward to it, because our games always come so close...this was just like punching a baby...very one sided.

[Wulff]

Lunch, you sure can take ironclads.... go check out the space wolves FAQ.. its right there..

 

Here is a couple observations, One.. even with his +5 invulnerability.. which he has to have mad doc grots to get remember.. u hit a ork with a 8 strenght anything and if it doesn;t save it dies.. with exceptions to IC or named orkys..

some of those are tought 5 and 6.. Bikes +1 don;t count toward instakills of orks.. so a nob on a bike T-4(5) gets hit by a powerfist.. well thats a 8 vs 4.. instakill ork.. only get his "5 inv save" if he misses that pick up the 2 wound model..

no FNP no cover"hth" no armor.. just die orky die..

 

remember orks only get furious charge if they are charging.. not if u charge him first.. so remember to stay back out of his charge range and make him come to you... otherwise he is just a 3 strenght orky.. and has to roll 5 and 6 to wound u.. much better for u

 

lastly orks firepower is much better.. even needing 5 and 6 to hit.. he has some nasty strenght 5 weapons.. don;t go stand in the open.. use cover its your friend...

 

good luck and go check the FAQ.. your going to love it..

 

Wulff

[lunchb0x]

Ive got the faq printed and in my box along with codex...I guess I missed that bit.

 

He didnt have bikes...

 

I guess I am going to have to do some mad tweaks to the list, and figure out a better tactic against that ork list.

[Nightrunner]

If I may, I have been on the receiving end of quite a few Ork beatings - but I've also dished some out, too!

 

To repeat some of whats already been said, try a Landraider. Hell, try two.

 

Those Nobs mobs are lethal if they get are charge in (or even if they dont, actually, but here's some tips!) but instakilling (S8 or more for a Nob) will take care of FNP and his two-wound advantage.

 

In CC, again, the more powerfists the better; I might even suggest a fully kitted-out LR with BC's, or alternatively, WG Termies with storm shields and thunder hammers. With the addition of runic charms, these guys will be able to take a Nob-unit charge and kill a few to boot.

 

What else? Oh, the armour 14 trukk is a battlewagon. Its open-topped; you always get that +1 damage. Also, its only 14 on the front - 12 on the side I think?

 

So, bear this in mind:

 

1) None of them can move more than 13" before their guys can get out and charge. So, with a 2" deployment, a massive base, and a 6" charge, you need to make sure all your units are NOT within 25" (to be safe) of any of his trukks and/or battlewagons. Bear in mind on turn 2 that he can Waaaagh, and add an extra D6" to that distance counting as a fleet move.

 

2) Shoot the trukks, with whatever you have, asap. The sooner his trukks are down, the sooner you can start shooting those Nobs.

 

3) Mega-armoured Nobs (MANz) are slow. They, especially, can be ignored initally, but again, you need to TAKE OUT THOSE TRUKKS!

 

4) Don't let him get a charge in. Bear in mind that furious charge makes a normal nob with an uge chopper S7, and Powerklaws S9. Not good for any vehicle, and even raiders need beware.

 

5) Bait. I always try and have something, for example, my dread in a drop-pod, that I use as a distraction. A little baiting can see your opponent split that force apart, and allow you time to take out those trukks.

 

Hope that helps!

 

NR :lol:

[Marek Grimfang]

Ive watched a few games between Orks and SW's and I dont recall ever seeing the SW's winning. I have seen a draw but there were not very many models left on the table.

 

From what I could see from each of the lists played, there was a lack of heavy support or template weapons with higer AP values in order to take out masses before they came into assault range.

 

But once they got there, Orks can clean up in HtH and despite being futile xenos, own the Assault Phase if not watched properly.

 

Going into HtH, you need heavy hitting choices like PF's and Thunder Hammers.

 

But like said before, hit the trukks or transports hard as soon as possible before they can unload.

[Wolf89]

Orks are easy for me to beat with 13th company, but as you said regular space wolves it can be tough. Land Raider Crusaders with a nice juicy BC squad with HQ's is a nice punch in an ork army, at least whenever I field one they always seem to do better than the rest of my army.

[saphius]

I'm going to assume he ran two warbosses - Making both Knob choices troops.

 

I might even go as far to assume one was Gazkuhl or whatever his name is - Allowing the Waaaagh on the first turn.

 

My suggestion to you would be 3 Vindicators. Run a Char with a Powerfist (Yes you read right) and a Few bodyguard with Term armor in a Normal Land Raider as their transport. Then fill out your troops with Whatever you can - Making out on BCs. Hope for the first turn and blast away a battlewagon. - The one with Ghazghul if he has him. Then make sure he can get a charge off nothing or on your GHs. If it's questionable, throw the GHs at him. (Not to obviously.) Once he wipes them out you will have 3 vindies to take out that squad - He'll get a 5+ inv but no FNP, and Instakills on 2 wound models - And your doing this from range taking away what he does best. Use the Raider to clean up a squad or kill another battlewagon if needed. At this point it should be 2 Knob squads vs 3 vindies a Raider, BCs and your Lord with his retinue. One of his squads should be fairly far away if you blew up the first battlewagon letting pound the close one with shots and charges making most of your army vs his last knob squad.

 

Granted this is a perfect world here, but either way I'd say it's one of your best shots. DPs are a bust against this, GHs are worthless - Bolters wont touch him. Only other strat that sounds fairly sound is 1500 Pts of bloodclaws maxed out with fists and pack leaders on foot just waiting for the charges. - Not the strat I like as much, but still could work.

 

Hope this helps. I didn't pound out the points but off the top of my head this should be doable in 1500.

[Ranek Icewalker]

well...., I am not a big fan of this, but you could always bring Grey Knights

 

They have those really nice flamers that kill anything with an invulsave, and oh yeah, they are all pwr wps, and they can lay down alot of fire power, and they all have strenght 6 pwr wepons(i think, you might want to check that) but any person will tell you that if you bring two squads of them, then you will not have anyproblem with the ork invuls, and their flamers ignore cover, so they will lose those expensive orks :D like johnny was talking about, and also don't forget their incinerator canons!!!!

 

My solution: LOTS OF INCINERATOR CANNONS AND 2 SQUADS OF GREY KNIGHTS :)

[lunchb0x]

What about WG with heavy weapons? ie. Las Cannons? and Heavy Bolters?

 

As far as LF, I was thinking of running them as 5 man squads with 2 heavys in a drop pod....something about dropping a dev squad behind enemy lines just seems like it would be alot of fun. ;)

[Wolf89]

What about WG with heavy weapons? ie. Las Cannons? and Heavy Bolters?

 

As far as LF, I was thinking of running them as 5 man squads with 2 heavys in a drop pod....something about dropping a dev squad behind enemy lines just seems like it would be alot of fun. ;)

 

Especially when they can't shoot the turn they come down, and with their small number, putting them closer into the mouth of the beast is the right thing to do... ;)

 

Trust us, Long fangs aren't worth it.

[muzzyman1981]

Right, Long Fangs are expensive and not good AT ALL in CC. IF you take them keep them in the back where their longer ranged weapons can target their two units at range.

[Bran Scalphunter]

As an Orky yoof, I've got some advice for ya:

 

 

Battlewagons can be taken out with lascannons and missiles, or hell, autocannon fire to the Side Armor; which if my membership on Da Waaagh! has taught me anything, most BW will be massively stretched out.

 

Mad Grot Doksnik* Dok Grotsnik is required to gain Cybork bodies in the MANz mob, since regular Nobz can take Painboyz for FnP and Cybork.

 

Warboss is S10 at all times with his Power Klaw, so it's best to blast the boss's retinue of Nobz to smithereens ASAP. MANz are as slow as zog, so they can be ignored if foot slogging until the rest of the orkz have been neutralized.

 

Best ways to Counter:

 

Cheap dakka Predator duo with a Las-Predator will work best for heavy armor. The Autocannons and heavy bolters can't hurt the BWs' front armor, but the Las-Predator will be able to frag at least one a turn. Once the juicy orkz inside are out in the open, feel free to blast em to bitz with dakka Preds.

 

An Ironclad Dreadnought or two will wreak havoc- take an extra two pods and drop the Clads down first turn. S10 with +1 to Damage rolls is good against RA 10... :D Heavy flamers on RA work good too if you feel like risking blowing it up. However, that will risk the Nobz swarming out and krumping the Dreadnought.

 

A few cheap Rhino mounted Grey Hunter Packs for objective grabbing and extra bodies will serve you well. Just take a couple of lightly armed WGBL to lead and you're golden.

 

Cheerz, ya filfy git youz!

 

^_^

 

*, sorry MDG if you're reading this. Your name was the first thing I typed.

[lunchb0x]

understandable that LG cant shoot the round they land, but by the time they drop in most of the stop will be on the other side of thet able and have rear armour exposed.

 

I think I am going to go with either preds or a bunch of s10 niceness. :)

[Iams]

I'd say tanks and longfangs to shoot from a distance to keep the line back with BC'S for CC againt's the orks(lots of them with lots of choppas and cuttas/crude pointy sharp things ect.).

[Ranek Icewalker]

Well...If they have invuln saves, bring the incinerators, and the grey knights, who cares if they get charged, they still kill stuff in close combat, and if they win the combat, they will be able to get really close to the enemy and use their incinerator and charge

 

USE GREY KNIGHTS AND INCINERATORS

 

i type in big letter because last time you guys ignored me!!!

[Grey Mage]

*shakes head* Use whirlwinds. Best thing against orks is a pair of whirlwinds, backed up with a heavy tank. Especially if hes pulling this everything in his army has a cover save bit...... just ignore the cover.

[megamat008]

As Grey Mage said a combination of 2 Whirlwindsan 1 Vindicator or even better 1 WW and 2 Vindis will work wonders.

 

Add a Ven Dread with AC and HF to take care of his mobs, plus he can take some Power Klaw hits and still hit back :)

[hendrik]

another thing you could do is go minimum on the troop choices and 2nd hq?1 6 man greyhunterunit and a wolfguard and 1 8 man bloodclaws unit

the other hq would have to be a ven dread

than you fill in the heavy slots, then the elite, and eventually even maybe the fast attack( some landspeeder typhoons maybe? they could start in your corner having a clear shot on the sides of those battleweagons)

don't have the codex at hand but i'd say 2-3 whirlwinds and AT dreadnoughts are the way to go