Grimfoe Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 I'm sure this has come up, but I couldn't find it. I'm refitting my 2nd edition Black Legion force to play under current rules. (Actually, I play Space Wolves, this force will be for my daughter) Anyway, reading the codex and comparing it to the rulebook, it appears that lesser daemons should be able to take objectives. "Units of Summoned Lesser Daemons do not use up any force organization chart selection, but are otherwise treated as a Troops unit." This seems pretty clear to me. Lesser Daemons are scoring units. I can see someone questioning it, however, because the rulebook says: "An army's scoring units are all the units that come from its Troops allowance." Again, I think it's pretty clear, but I was wondering if this was addressed in any official FAQ. I'd like something from GW to present when some idiot argues the point with me. (or my daughter.) Thanks, and I apologize again if this is a repeat question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 You don't need anything other than your Codex and the Rule Book. Lesser Daemons do not use up any FOC slots but are otherwise treated as Troops units. C:CSM, p102 Scoring units: Rule Book, p90. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 another words an army with just 2 demon packs as troops is not legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimfoe Posted December 6, 2008 Author Share Posted December 6, 2008 You don't need anything other than your Codex and the Rule Book. Lesser Daemons do not use up any FOC slots but are otherwise treated as Troops units. C:CSM, p102 Scoring units: Rule Book, p90. I know I shouldn't, I think those are the pages I quoted (dont' have the books in front of me anymore). I just wanted ammunition if I ran into a rules lawyer as I could see it coming up. Maybe you guys haven't encountered this as a problem? Seemed like a question that could be raised. Anyway, thanks, I appreciate the quick response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 I've only been to three tourneys since 5th came out but for what it's worth, I've yet to see it crop up there or in friendly games. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimfoe Posted December 6, 2008 Author Share Posted December 6, 2008 Sweet. Thanks, again, for the quick response. (you all seem a little too nice for followers of Chaos. Just saying....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Sweet. Thanks, again, for the quick response. (you all seem a little too nice for followers of Chaos. Just saying....) :wub: Chaos gets bad press :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimfoe Posted December 7, 2008 Author Share Posted December 7, 2008 Wait just a damn minute! You're all trying to corrupt me aren't you? I see how it is. You'll not get me that easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 It's a nice way for a Chaos army to go from contesting an objective with a non-scoring unit to capturing it - summon some daemons through an icon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Wait just a damn minute! You're all trying to corrupt me aren't you? I see how it is. You'll not get me that easy. I guess we'll have to corrept your daughter then. (wait that doesn't sound right :D ) 2nd ed. BL army, speaking as a BL fanboy, that is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimfoe Posted December 7, 2008 Author Share Posted December 7, 2008 Wait just a damn minute! You're all trying to corrupt me aren't you? I see how it is. You'll not get me that easy. I guess we'll have to corrept your daughter then. (wait that doesn't sound right :lol: ) 2nd ed. BL army, speaking as a BL fanboy, that is awesome. That was pretty funny, chillin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massawyrm Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 I've seen it come up. And then everyone else in the room gives them a dirty look, says "troops are scoring" and they get on with the game. It's a fair question with a fairly simple answer. Yes, they count as scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askari Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 As long as they aren't vehicles and their rules don't specifically say they aren't scoring, if they count as troops they're scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 I think the problem comes from the following wording "An army's scoring units are all the units that come from its troops allowance." Some people would say this allowance refers to the 6 FOC troop slots and that as daemons don't take any up they do not count. I think they do count :) but that is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Gods Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Yeah, the lesser demons count as scoring units as stated by ppl earlier in this thread. Me, and one other guy in my group use chaos on a weekly basis. Weve also got 2 others building chaos armies that use em. And not one of us in our group has ever contested or said that Lesser's cant count as scoring units. Have even gone to tournaments and used them as scoring units to hold objectives. And if someone does argue with you or your daughter, bring up the fact that her army worships Demons and yeah... send a few his way to "correct" his judgement and understanding. :blush: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 I am not convinced. Chaos players are quick to assert that demons obviously count as scoring units, since they are Troops. But they are Troops in all respects other than using up a force organisation chart selection, which does seem to be the necessary criterion for a unit to count as scoring. Maybe they are supposed to count as scoring, maybe the rulebook rules on scoring units are badly phrased. But it is not an unambiguous case, and I would like to have an FaQ on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepstrike Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 FaQ means frequently asked question. If its not a issue there wont be a FaQ. Lesser daemons are not part of the FOC because the designers wanted the list to be about marines not daemons.They made them troops so fanatical armies like word bearers with huge numbers of summoned daemons could still be wordbearers and still use their armies based on fluff. But it does not allow unscrupulous types to use two 5 man packs of daemons as troops choices when this was still 4th edition. Summoned daemons do not use up slots on the FOC but are otherwise treated as a troops unit. The Tyranid codex states that ripper swarms can never be a scoring unit but they do use up a troop choice on the FOC. The Deffdread can be a troop choice on the FOC but it is a vehicle. Ork Nobs can become troop choices with the inclusion of a warboss even though they are usually Elite choices. Sternguard become scoring units with the inclusion of pedro cantor and they fill an Elite FOC slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Yea, I don't see them doing a FAQ on something that is so obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 This is not the first time, and not the only forum, I have seen teh question pop up. And there have been FaQ questions that were specifically explained in the rules, unlike this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 And there have been FaQ questions that were specifically explained in the rules, unlike this issue. Well you are certainly right about that. I thought the C:csm 4.0 FAQ for one, explained some things that seemed very obvious, while ignoring some things that were far more ambigous. There have been a couple of people in this thread that have said they have been to tournies and that using daemons as scoring units were not a problem in the tournies, make of that what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimfoe Posted December 7, 2008 Author Share Posted December 7, 2008 That's really why I raised the question. I tend to think that lesser daemons are scoring units, but I have seen MUCH more obvoius details addressed in FAQ. I would really like something I can point to in black and white, but I guess that's not the case. In my experience, one cannot always count on one's opponent to be fairminded and easy to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Moving this over to the OR for further input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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