Would the Inquisition and GK work with aliens?

[jakehunter52]

True, the chapter masters are very old and wise, having gone through intense experiences and been granted hidden knowledge. However, this simply emphases what I said before, that they know that the xenos have never proven to be truly helpful to humanity, that while they might help the Imperium defeat a Chaos threat today, it was only that we would be able to shelter a far greater burden that they would have been forced to deal and crippled them otherwise, leaving humanity in an even worse position. They manipulate to extents unknown and fight to no end and (talking about Eldar in particular) would rather see the galaxy burn and be devoid in life than selflessly act to allow the Imperium to live and defeat the threats presented before it. These chapter masters know this first hand which is far more effective of a teacher than your local commissar. So, the question remains...

 

However, this does present an interesting notion, is humanity incapable of manipulating xenos as it is purported they do do us? It is harder in my opinion for the massive Imperium, which has almost everything in the galaxy to lose, to convince something smaller and with a lot less to fight and die for them. And really, the only manipulation I know of off the top is where that commander got some Tyrannids and Orks fighting each other rather than the Imperium but everyone is afraid when one of them wins (since they both breed off of warfare...), so not exactly the smartest trickery. But do you think it is possible and still be able to remain...puritan?

 

As far as the fluff of the emperor changing, that is probably true but what I base off of is the most recent and probably set in stone Horus Heresy series. I doubt that they will ever change it now since it would be immensely harder than killing off the squats and they have effectively built up a universe that is much more serious and focused than it was back in the day.

 

Grey Knights are still marines, still part of the imperium and still of the creed that the air they breathe (or the equivalent) belongs to humanity and they must die for their sins. If anything, the Eldar deserve to die the most since they made a frickin' Chaos god! Thanks a lot guys, way to make something that not only kills off most of your own gods but will turn multiple primarchs against the Emperor, the only guy keeping chaos at bay and enslave billions of trillions of souls to damnation. Grey Knights know this and more, that the xenos will weaken the imperium so it can't defend against the daemonic threat, make them lose faith so they will turn to chaos instead of the Emperor and more. Yeah, I doubt they have a second thought when they sweep their NFW through them (and insta-kill the eldar too!)

 

Everything else, I don't know. I bet they fall under, "Necessary Evils" which is totally acceptable since GKs are psykers which the Imperium oh so abhors. And I can't really say much about the tech thing, I know that it is the Mechanicum's stance that you can't beat "Made in the good 'ol Human Way" and to say otherwise is death but they are a seperate entity to the imperium and it is only enforced because of the pact made way back when and not an inherent part of the Imperial creed, so yeah, debatable.

[Tauren]

Grey-Knights are "marines" in a very small factor. They are religious warriors on par with the knights templar that know far more the average marine. In fact they are imparted with knowledge far beyond their own and personally connect with the emperor on an individual level during their lifetime. This is open fact, let alone the tortures that they must survive to achieve the basic rank of knight. On top of that unlike space marine chapters grey knights not only venerate the god-emperor, they are im effect his children, being created directly upon his order to prevent chaos' taint from harming humanity, they are awarded the intense honor of being buried beneath the eternal watch of the emperor on his golden throne. The space marines ar elucky if they even get to see their own chapters masters let alone see the emperor, but each and every knight connects with him on a psychic level and is buried beneath him.

 

Interestingly in recent readings I have this sneaking suspicion that the knights may have come, much like the original marines from a cocktail of the adeptus custodes, the emperor, and the marines that returned after their chapter went heretical. To many similarities in armor style, the knightly suits, weapon, the halberds on the original termies used to be guardian halberds, and the general connection with the emperor.

 

Psykers are not evil, as some say they are, for the simple fact that the knights being all psykers are tainted creatures for the simple fact that they occur naturally. Further-more grey knights being all psykers differ from normal psykers in the fact that they are trained as a team to retain a psychic consciousness that is built as a team. Their abilities are further tempered by the tests they take, the soul-link with the emperor, and their very religious nature.

 

As far as the elder "creating a chaos god" ... you do realize that the chaos gods themselves were created by the basic emotional powers that control any humanoid species? Nurgle... dispair, slaanesh ... excess, tzeentch... hope, khorne... anger. Sorry but "oh but the eldar created a god" argument is a poor one. Especially when you consider that humans created the emperor by having every leader they had commit suicide to create a "mythical" star child that would become the god-emperor.

 

Sorry but I hold the Knights above nearly every other human being in the imperium for the simple fact of their connection to the emperor, their very nature, and their origins.

 

As far as eldar, I continue to disagree, they are a dieing race bent on reversing or aiding in the cause of stopping everyone's mutual enemy, chaos. They have no grand plans to end the human race... and to think so is simply being paranoid and delusional. Further-more like every Inquisition order, the order xenos is known to utilize aliens on the "radical" side of things. Besides, I as a player find the kroot fluff to be amazingly funny. Interestingly kroot are odd xenos in the fact that they seem to know on a communal level when lead by their shapers what is "clean to eat" and "not clean to eat". In certain pieces their leaders will direct the group not to consume the flesh of chaos and tyranids for the fact that it is tainted and should not be incorporated into their groups genes.

[jakehunter52]

Grey-Knights are "marines" in a very small factor. They are religious warriors on par with the knights templar that know far more the average marine. In fact they are imparted with knowledge far beyond their own and personally connect with the emperor on an individual level during their lifetime. This is open fact, let alone the tortures that they must survive to achieve the basic rank of knight. On top of that unlike space marine chapters grey knights not only venerate the god-emperor, they are im effect his children, being created directly upon his order to prevent chaos' taint from harming humanity, they are awarded the intense honor of being buried beneath the eternal watch of the emperor on his golden throne. The space marines ar elucky if they even get to see their own chapters masters let alone see the emperor, but each and every knight connects with him on a psychic level and is buried beneath him.

 

Interestingly in recent readings I have this sneaking suspicion that the knights may have come, much like the original marines from a cocktail of the adeptus custodes, the emperor, and the marines that returned after their chapter went heretical. To many similarities in armor style, the knightly suits, weapon, the halberds on the original termies used to be guardian halberds, and the general connection with the emperor.

 

Ok....don't disagree with you at all. It's a running joke with my friends that Grey Knights are not space marines (per me saying they weren't cause they were born directly of the Emperor's geneseed but whatever) and I agree, they are much more. They are dedicated to levels that I doubt even some captains would be able to withstand and their loyalty is perfect. However, all of this fails to convince that they would drop their former beliefs because they maintain a much more intimant relationship with the Emperor and what he stands for. If anything, because of their stronger bonds, it makes it more likely they would agree wholeheartly with what he has mandated and as mentioned before, the Emperor (not the Lords of Terra, back when he was still a walking, talking god) decreed that xenos must be purged.

 

Psykers are not evil, as some say they are, for the simple fact that the knights being all psykers are tainted creatures for the simple fact that they occur naturally. Further-more grey knights being all psykers differ from normal psykers in the fact that they are trained as a team to retain a psychic consciousness that is built as a team. Their abilities are further tempered by the tests they take, the soul-link with the emperor, and their very religious nature.

 

According to the Imperium, yeah, they are! Black Templar, the Witch Hunters, Commissars, the Black Ships, all of them have core tenants that revile psykers and necessitate their destruction. Now, mind you, this is simply the official stance of the Imperium, not my personal belief :lol: . But you are right, it is a contradiction that Grey Knights, the purest of the pure (and the Emperor himself for that matter) are considered in a less than gracious light but I think that it is simply the Imperium's way of trying to deal with the uncontrolled psyker to prevent an even greater disaster (which is why the Emperor told Magus to stop dealing in the warp but because he didn't heed, he was tainted and fell to chaos). It's kinda like abstinence, you never do bad cause you avoid the situation all-together, it's the safest route, which is why it is the rule of thumb for everything, including xenos.

 

As far as the elder "creating a chaos god" ... you do realize that the chaos gods themselves were created by the basic emotional powers that control any humanoid species? Nurgle... dispair, slaanesh ... excess, tzeentch... hope, khorne... anger. Sorry but "oh but the eldar created a god" argument is a poor one. Especially when you consider that humans created the emperor by having every leader they had commit suicide to create a "mythical" star child that would become the god-emperor.

 

...they did. It's in their codex. Slaanesh was born in the middle of the Eldar Empire which is now the Eye of Terror and helped cause the warp storms ushering in the age of strife (forgot to mention that one, then we might not have the desperate situation we are in now). And yeah, the chaos gods are the dark reflection of mortal beings but point is...there were three before the eldar drove their empire into decadence and then their were four.

 

As far as eldar, I continue to disagree, they are a dieing race bent on reversing or aiding in the cause of stopping everyone's mutual enemy, chaos. They have no grand plans to end the human race... and to think so is simply being paranoid and delusional. Further-more like every Inquisition order, the order xenos is known to utilize aliens on the "radical" side of things. Besides, I as a player find the kroot fluff to be amazingly funny. Interestingly kroot are odd xenos in the fact that they seem to know on a communal level when lead by their shapers what is "clean to eat" and "not clean to eat". In certain pieces their leaders will direct the group not to consume the flesh of chaos and tyranids for the fact that it is tainted and should not be incorporated into their groups genes.

 

My point wasn't to say that the eldar are out for our blood at every turn but rather then look at the bigger picture, they would willingly wound the galaxy's only chance at survival (being the Imperium) for the sake of their pride. Most of my comments are coming from a GK perspective, especially since that is what I love to play and no one had seemed to comment on them yet. I whole heartily agree that there are people within the =I= that have no qualms working with xenos, I just think it is impossible for GK to since they are considered the hardest line of them all.

[Tauren]

As far as the eldar, I simply respond with... yea wow... the eldar created their own chaos god and guess what, that god constantly hunts the remainder of their souls. That's the soul-stone thing they have going on in order to evade and avoid slaanesh. But that still doesn't change the fact that there are 3 other gods that came into existence in all probability by a the human race which is honestly in the majority in space and always has been.

 

I still have heard conflicting ideals on what the Emperor believed, in regards to xenos. I do recall that he was open to ab-humans and would eventually cure those that were tainted by chaos. Furthermore as to the conflicting ideals, I do believe that the "imperium" only became all "kill everything" after the emperor's death, not before.

[GodwynDi]

Part of the problem of whether the anti-xenos sentiment is from the Emperor, or after His time, is that the WH40K lore has changed over time. The most recent lore, including the series of books as have been mentioned, the Emperor himself said not to tolerate xenos. Personally, I think it adds more flavour to the world, because who in the Imperium truly is certain, honestly, of what the Emperor mandated, and what has evolved over time?

 

And comparing the creation of the Emperor to the creation of Slaanesh is heresy. . .you are warned. :ph34r:

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Marshal Paul Posted Today, 01:25 AM

If a particularly open minded or wise Inquisitor ordered the Grey Knights to ignore a particular Xenos force and to focus on the main objective for the time being, who are they to argue?

 

Depends on the loyalty and reputation of the Inquisitor in question. If its a particularly well-respected Inquisitor, they'll just grit their teeth and point their guns the other way. If its a known Radiacl, they may well shoot him and the Xenos he's attempting to ally with.

 

Grey Knights, whilst being under the control of the Ordo Malleus, aren't directly controlled simply because Inquisitors operate independently - there is no rigid command structure other than in the Grey Knights themselves. They too are part of the policing of the Inquisition. Some of the older fluff in Dark Heresy said that every cell of Inquisitors dispatched to hunt down a rogue had to be lead by a squad of Grey Knights.

[Mosk]

I would say this could be very likely for the Witch Hunters, as it says right in the codex fluff that they do sometimes fights things besides mutants (not demons) and heretics. The reasons for each race that witch hunters would fight are below (and this is just a brief list)

 

Tau - The greater good conflicts with the witch hunter faith.

Imperial Guard - Guardsman all to easily become heritical following Chaos Gods, or forming mutations that could distrupt the human race.

Chaos Daemons - Daemons could potentially corrupt IG

Chaos Space Marines - this seems very logical for sisters to face, as they are the heritics

Eldar - They are a threat to man kind, they could be invading a planet with a holy shrine of the Witch Hunters.

Dark Eldar - this is one that I have no clue on.

Orks - Attacking a holy sisters site, Just for the hell of it

Space Marines - Corrupt Geneseed

Witch Hunters - Rival Inquisitor in power, or corrrpted by the ways of the dark gods.

Kroot - (yes because this is the best chapter approved there is) - Because they are fun to burn.... why not kill em?

Tyranid - infestation on a holy relic

[Tauren]

I always thought the best reason to fight tyranids is because they want to eat you and eating you is bad...

[Tauren]

Marshal Paul Posted Today, 01:25 AM

If a particularly open minded or wise Inquisitor ordered the Grey Knights to ignore a particular Xenos force and to focus on the main objective for the time being, who are they to argue?

 

Depends on the loyalty and reputation of the Inquisitor in question. If its a particularly well-respected Inquisitor, they'll just grit their teeth and point their guns the other way. If its a known Radiacl, they may well shoot him and the Xenos he's attempting to ally with.

 

Grey Knights, whilst being under the control of the Ordo Malleus, aren't directly controlled simply because Inquisitors operate independently - there is no rigid command structure other than in the Grey Knights themselves. They too are part of the policing of the Inquisition. Some of the older fluff in Dark Heresy said that every cell of Inquisitors dispatched to hunt down a rogue had to be lead by a squad of Grey Knights.

 

And Grey Knights are not openly known for hunting down and killing aliens. That's not their job nor their mission. They are a chapter and a religious order specifically created to combat chaos and chaos' allies. They do not hunt aliens, that is another orders job and another groups issue, thus the xenos hunters and the death-watch.

[jester_prince]

And Grey Knights are not openly known for hunting down and killing aliens. That's not their job nor their mission. They are a chapter and a religious order specifically created to combat chaos and chaos' allies. They do not hunt aliens, that is another orders job and another groups issue, thus the xenos hunters and the death-watch.

 

Thats kinda my thoughts on it, its not the GK's job to destroy the aliens, the one and only purpose of the GK's is demon/chaos hunting, I would have thought that GK's would use any allies it could take against demons, if an alien has information about the demon then it would be wise to use them rather then kill them, afterall, it might be your only lead to ending the demon threat, it could take thousands of years just to learn a demons name afterall, any help even from an alien is a resource not to be wasted and if they can help you banish the demon too then it means less resources spent by the Imperium and hopefully the demons will take some xenos down with them leaving both sides weak.

 

As for calgar letting the tau go... its about honour, worriors code, you fight with someone while you are on the battlefield you are their brother in blood spilled, if they have faught hard, letting them go would be a sign of respect. dosnt mean calgar wouldnt blast the same tau apart if he ever met them again.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

The GKs intended purpose may be the hunting of the daemonic, but if they run into, say, an alien ship randomly, with no extenutating circumstances, they are going to blast the hell out of them. They will not sit there making rude gestures out the portholes and nothing else because its the Ordo Xenos job to fight aliens.

 

Similarly, the Deathwatch are more than willing to fight Daemons, as evidenced in Eisenhorn.

[Tauren]

So what your telling me is that the knights would openly start conflict if they run into a random "alien" ship?

 

Few problems with that logic, even imperial guard units will not open fire on a non-hostile alien vessel before checking it out first. The current nature of the galaxy is not conducive to opening fire on just any vessel, let alone the fact that knights are not just floating out in space looking for daemon's to hunt, they are almost always actively searching for instability or being requested for aid.

 

Furthermore in all probability it will be rare for a knight's strike cruiser to bump into an alien ship randomly out in the cosmos. I do not deny that the knights will kill aliens, just that they are not actively looking nor seeking conflict with them in such a fashion. In fact no military organization seeks active conflict with an alien race, look at imperial guard during the retaking of a world held by the tau, due to the nature of things in the galaxy and the distance from imperial trade-lines the conflict never occurred. In fact the imperial guard abandoned the world to the tau after they found the vanguard of a group of genestealer's and recent knowledge of another hive fleet believed to be entering the galaxy came to fruition. Contrary to popular belief marines don't just go out to blow up aliens that are minding their own business, a warning yes, but they know better than to start fights with the limited resources that the Imperium and the space marines have if they don't have to. If anything they are more apt in most cases to watch the aliens and see what exactly they are doing before hunting them down and killing them on the spot for being alien.

 

If I was a knight, I would think about the bigger picture... What would a small group of eldar, possibly a strike group be doing out here in the middle of no-where. Follow them, past dealings with eldar teaches me that they are often at the center of complex issues, often including chaos. Why dig for the mushroom when you have a dog to lead you too it in this case.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Lots of thoughts for this discussion...

 

Firstly, the Witch Hunters don't hate all psykers. Many of them ARE psykers, and it would be a rather unique brand of crazy if that were so ;) What they hunt down are rogue psykers, psykers deemed not strong enough or have enough control to be able to survive without calling down influence from the warp, witches, heretics and sorcerors deemed too dangerous to be left alive. It's like giving tickets to people that drive without a license demonstrating they're deemed fit to be on the roads, only the ticket is death (or being bound to use as a psychic grounding rod until dead, stuff like that... depending on the Inquisitor and the situation in question) ^_^

 

I thought I read some fluff in the Daemon Hunter Codex about Grey Knights being buried on Titan? Might be contradictory information...

 

In terms of ANY branch of the Imperium working with Xenos, it's all situational. Essentially the commanding officer (whomever that is at the time) makes a command decision in the field: Will working with Xenos allow me to achieve my primary objectives for this warzone? Is it worth my time? Is it going too far beyond battlefield convenience or necessity and descending into heresy? Trust that the officer will have to defend their actions at a later date, but there's been fluff of Space Marine Librarians working with Eldar (in the scenario fluff as recently as the Lucky 13's campaign which we know was run by GW, therefore cannon), numerous incidents in the Black Library texts, even in Forge World stuff. I'm sure there have been alliances with Tau before as well, though that I haven't seen personally.

 

Inquisitors, like any other individual in the Imperium, have a range of values and viewpoints. They have different judgements about what is "necessary" or "worth sacrificing" to achieve their objectives. The Inquisitor WILL complete their mission, or die trying. That's why Inquisitor Lords get to chose to pass or fail any morale test. If it is in the overall best interests of the Imperium for them to temporarily cooperate with Xenos to complete their mission then they will do so. If not, they won't.

 

Now this doesn't necessarily mean other Inquisitors will feel it was worth it, and they may brand themselves a renegade and heretic by doing so... but that's part of the risk they have to weigh things against. The Grey Knights and Adeptus Sororitas are no different: each commander and leader has different ideas about what the priority system is.. and ultimately has to make a battlefield command decision. Now I don't see Sisters running around in Harlequin technology holosuits and having half eldar babies, that's a little over the top... but a group of Sisters accepting temporary aid from a squad of Eldar rangers to pursue a group of chaos cultists who are summoning a daemon to take over a world? Yeah.. they'd work together. And hopefully the cultists and the daemon will take out the rangers for them and save them the ammo. ^_^

[Tauren]

Excuse me for conflicting, I meant beneath the temple to the Emperor on Titan, I was confusing their connection with him during the soul-binding where their minds are remade and their burial beneath their fortress on titan in my wording. It is still an honor to be buried there, which is why they loath being entombed in dreadnoughts, because they wish to join the emperor in their rest.

 

Ciaphus Cain, the rather special commisar *snicker*, and the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Amberley Vail have both worked with Tau and their kroot allies in rooting out a genestealer cult within an imperial world. Just an example... The cult was actually seeking to start a war between the tau and the imperium which would suck up resources in the sector and allow the incoming hive-fleet to take advantage of the situation. Would suck if they hadn't taken control of the situation.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Tauren Posted Today, 06:00 PM

So what your telling me is that the knights would openly start conflict if they run into a random "alien" ship?

 

Few problems with that logic, even imperial guard units will not open fire on a non-hostile alien vessel before checking it out first. The current nature of the galaxy is not conducive to opening fire on just any vessel, let alone the fact that knights are not just floating out in space looking for daemon's to hunt, they are almost always actively searching for instability or being requested for aid.

 

 

Yes. Finding a non-hostile alien race is a rarity at best. As far as the Imperium is concerned, non-hostile alien ships do not exist until after the checks are complete. Shoot first, ask questions later. The current nature of the galaxy is not conducive to trust in any form, let alone between Imperials and "Xeno scum". The Imperium does not send rescue parties into space hulks, it sends fully armed boarding parties to recon and if possible take over.

This is GRIMDARK, not tolerant at all and openly prohbitive of Imperial-xeno contact. The luxury of being able to hail a passing ship to inquire as to its identity without having to put your ship on a war footing first is simply not available in the 40k universe.

 

BTW, I assume you mean the Imperial Navy. The Guard haven't had command of ships since the Heresy. Even air support is run by the Navy.

 

+EDIT+ Spelling

[Tauren]

What you fail to understand is that you don't "just bump" into alien ships... the few alien ships out there that would allow an imperium vessel to open fire on it are few and far between, probably limited to tau for their believes. Sorry but I disagree that you would ever find many an occasion where an imperium vessel would run into an alien vessel randomly let alone open fire on it. Space hulks aside most of the alien vessels you refer to can be limited to 3 or so races. Tau, Eldar, and Dark Eldar. Dark eldar are raiders, they would probably attack first. Eldar are wanderers and in all probability would not be found or would simply outrun the imperium ships. Tau are a special case, at the same time tau advance in large fleets, often not sending out random ships unlike the Eldar which are dwindling in numbers or the raider dark eldar. There are written cases of war not being started with the Tau due to lack of supplies and lack of a need to start a war in the far out sectors of space where the Tau are currently advancing from. Space marines are no different in the fact that you don't go punching a random ship alien vessel because you don't know what trouble it will cause or why it's there. It's not a matter of not being "GRIMDARK" its a matter of being smart, which a majority of space marine groups and their leaders are. You don't walk up to a family and punch the kid in the face expecting no recourse from the father.

 

Furthermore its not a matter of hailing a passing ship, openly in the fluff ships are capable of being identified by the shape. Come on, it's an alien vessel if its not one of yours. It's an eldar or tau ship if the hull is smooth. It's tyranids if it's a giant living entity and it's orcs if it looks like a monkey put it together. The reason they go into space hulks shooting is because space hulks are usually not just giant floating pieces of junk that make their way through space in and out of the warp currents. They tend to be made up of many lost ships and often contain some form of life, whether it be invading orcs that are going to crash said space-hulk into the planet and invade, or tyranids looking to get deep into the imperium. Just because "WAR" is the first 3 letters in warhammer does not mean that the imperium and space marine chapters, let alone the most intelligent and highly adept version of them the religious order known as the Grey Knights go in guns blazing without giving a damn.

 

As for the imperial guard, when the imperial guard move they move through use of imperial navy ships, at the time of use these ships while commanded by the imperial navies officers do have to undertake the simple fact that their actions in space affect the entire sector, in the case of imperial guard utilization a crusade or military action is probably occurring and it is often a delicate procedure. Further-more the imperial navy is even more uptight about putting their ships in unknown danger, which is why they would not open fire on a unknown vessel without first understanding what it is, it takes very little time for a commander to realize when a ship turns towards you and increases speed that they are probably not nice, but a passing space vessel of alien origin is something to be watched and understood before being blown up. On top of that the main vessels used in space travel are probably not what encounters alien vessels, if anything its the patrolling space fighters that locate these threats and often they return with the knowledge, if the enemy is dangerous they don't because they get blown into space debris.

 

Contrary to popular believe the imperium is a defensive force alot of the time, not an offensive... It is struggling to hold back any number of foes from many areas with limited resources.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Tauren Posted Today, 06:59 PM

Contrary to popular believe the imperium is a defensive force alot of the time, not an offensive...

 

THAT is the premise behind the idea that the Imperium shoots first. The ships will be trespassing on Imperial space. If its not Imperial space, say a Rogue Trader expedition with the Missionarius Galaxia, then I fully agree - they won't shoot first.

[Skytear]

There's a lot here, but I liked Nicol's post best (no offense) so I'll just quote it.

 

 

 

 

I thought I read some fluff in the Daemon Hunter Codex about Grey Knights being buried on Titan? Might be contradictory information...

That's true. If at all possible, their brother grey-knights entomb them on Titan, in an, as always, grey-knighty awesome ceremony.

 

 

In terms of ANY branch of the Imperium working with Xenos, it's all situational. Essentially the commanding officer (whomever that is at the time) makes a command decision in the field: Will working with Xenos allow me to achieve my primary objectives for this warzone? Is it worth my time? Is it going too far beyond battlefield convenience or necessity and descending into heresy? Trust that the officer will have to defend their actions at a later date, but there's been fluff of Space Marine Librarians working with Eldar (in the scenario fluff as recently as the Lucky 13's campaign which we know was run by GW, therefore cannon), numerous incidents in the Black Library texts, even in Forge World stuff. I'm sure there have been alliances with Tau before as well, though that I haven't seen personally.

Right on. I'd think the same thing. With the means of communication and rapid response, it might take a while for reinforcements to arrive, so the woman/man in charge will have to deal with the situation first and then worry about the Fallout, which may totally lead to a court martial or even a full Inquisitorial investigation.

 

 

Inquisitors, like any other individual in the Imperium, have a range of values and viewpoints. They have different judgements about what is "necessary" or "worth sacrificing" to achieve their objectives. The Inquisitor WILL complete their mission, or die trying. That's why Inquisitor Lords get to chose to pass or fail any morale test. If it is in the overall best interests of the Imperium for them to temporarily cooperate with Xenos to complete their mission then they will do so. If not, they won't.

That is why I would like to think that Grey Knights, for example, will at least notify the others (Xenos, Hereticus) if they find Xenos, Rogue Psykers, etc when on a mission.

I tend to think of it like they just do what they're absolute best at, knock at the temple door "Hey fellas, time to play?" then bash chaos around and then fly away.

Of course, that may mean the rest of the Planet and most of the planetary generals thinking :cuss? why'd they just incinerate that old lousy temple and leave the Greenskins and that mutant-infested hive city standing? What's the deal with them? We're people too! But it's just not what the GK are -made- for.

I personally find that cool as it gives all the Ordos an air of mysterious and absolute professionalism.

I mean, the Inquisition is about as 'pro' as it gets. It makes perfect sense to leave the mutants to those who are -really- good at handling them instead

of spending resources that might be otherwise put to better use.

What Nikole said all points me in the direction that each Inquisitor is different. As is each branch.

Yeah, pretty much strike.

The Inquisition branches out pretty effectively with each 'team' having it's own playfield.

And each Inquisitor having great leeway in his decisions (of course, there are very real consequences for Heresy and Radicalism)

 

 

Now this doesn't necessarily mean other Inquisitors will feel it was worth it, and they may brand themselves a renegade and heretic by doing so... but that's part of the risk they have to weigh things against. The Grey Knights and Adeptus Sororitas are no different: each commander and leader has different ideas about what the priority system is.. and ultimately has to make a battlefield command decision. Now I don't see Sisters running around in Harlequin technology holosuits and having half eldar babies, that's a little over the top... but a group of Sisters accepting temporary aid from a squad of Eldar rangers to pursue a group of chaos cultists who are summoning a daemon to take over a world? Yeah.. they'd work together. And hopefully the cultists and the daemon will take out the rangers for them and save them the ammo. :)

I'd think Sisters might do that, I am not sure Grey Knights (as I like them best) would do that, really.

I picture the Grey Knight telling the Eldar to just buzz off - they're the damn best anti-chaos-force there is and their history proves that.

[Tauren]

Tauren Posted Today, 06:59 PM

Contrary to popular believe the imperium is a defensive force alot of the time, not an offensive...

 

THAT is the premise behind the idea that the Imperium shoots first. The ships will be trespassing on Imperial space. If its not Imperial space, say a Rogue Trader expedition with the Missionarius Galaxia, then I fully agree - they won't shoot first.

 

I still disagree on the basic fact that a majority of space while under the influence of the Imperium is not under the control of the imperium, there is a difference. In fact many outskirt imperium worlds where the alien foes are usually found are simply managed by some wing of the imperium and given a phone number to call in case something happens, not having active patrols around the system via the imperial navy fleets. You might have some world side patrols but nothing that will stop anything of any considerate nature.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

We know from 'Eye of Terror' codex and fluff in the Eldar codex that Czevak is considered an ally by the Eldar and recently was rescued from Arhiman (who also wanted to take a look around the library :) ) by the Harlequins. We also know that Czevak is maybe the only Ordo Xenos Inquisitor the Eldar have let into the BL, but several (they mention a 'handful' in the Eldar codex, so I'm assuming less than 10) senior Ordo Malleus Inquisitors have been allowed into the Black Library.

 

The Eldar and the Ordo Malleus fight the same threat; the insidious influence of Chaos. The Eldar already lived through the apocalypse that the Emperor only just avoided (we came so close at the Siege of Terra, and as we know from 'Legion' the Conclave wanted the Emperor to die, so Horus could burn out and humanity could be reborn), and their long millenia spent thwarting Chaos (and avoiding Slannesh) make them a powerful ally and source of knowledge.

On the human side of the equation, we have the numbers, the presence (we're largely a repeat of the Eldar empire in many respects, except we passed the 'balance point' and shifted into totalitarian state) and we do have something even the Eldar grudgingly accept works: faith. The Emperor, even weakened and chained to a chair back home, still can grant unique powers and strength to his chosen servants. The Grey Knights get the most direct benefit from this, as they are psychically linked through their gene-seed (and apparently the Terminators are soul-bound to the big E, making them even more dangerous). Astartes are a uniquely human creation; the Eldar have their walking dead but the Grey Knights out-fight most Aspects when it comes to Chaos (Harlies are a special case, and arguably they don't have the numbers either). Malleus Inquisitors are still largely only human, and function less in a 'direct combat' role (although a few do), most use their influence and power in the same way as Eldar Farseers do; guiding their warriors to victory.

 

As for the other Ordos, the picture is less clear.

 

Ordo Xenos has, like all branches of the Inquisition (even Malleus, so the above paragraph should be seen as a worst-case scenario to both sides, as normally they won't work together), has a high proportion of Puritans. While their mandate isn't neccessarily 'kill all xenos' (the Emperor founded them more along the lines of 'study them, attack them if they present a threat'), many Inquisitors would take such a view and rigidly enforce it. The Deathwatch are an offensive force (they're designed for precision strikes and retrieval of artifacts), but they are bound to the whims of the Inquisitor leading them. Most Astartes Chapters preach total intolerance of xenos and order their extinction, but you could see mixed kill-teams largely deferring to their leader (Inquisitor or Captain).

The Ordo Xenos have conducted operations against the enroachment of the Tau (they even lead a Crusade deep into the Tau Empire, getting about halfway with their forward Kill-teams before the Tyranids forced a retreat), and it would be rare for them to work alongside the blue midgets. The Tau are actively wresting control of Imperial space and worlds away from the Imperium, so it would be rare for a Tau force to be engaged against a mutual threat (say Tyranids), because the Third Sphere is chewing up a lot of resources. As of now, the Ordo Xenos is too busy maintaining the Kryptmann Cordon (and watching for the next wave to come) and watching helplessly as Ork and Tyranid fight a stalemate in the Octavian sector.

As for Eldar, it's again largely up to the ranking Inquisitor/DW Captain.

Necrons are Tyranids are universal enemies, and both are the major threats tying up most of the Ordo Xenos resources at the moment. Assuming the Tyranids didn't exist, the Ultramarines would be getting a lot more help on the Eastern Fringe from the Inquisition.

 

Ordo Hereticus probably has the highest proportion of Puritans in the Inquisition, due to their calling. They deal with the first stages of larger threats (minor cults to Chaos, Genestealer covens, somewhere I've also read they've found heretic Tech-Priests who worship Necron artifacts), with the other two branches engaging the subsequent development from heresy+rebellion to full-scale alien/Chaos invasions.

The SoB are not like the Grey Knights or the Deathwatch, in being an autonomous force. They are directly under the control of the Cult of the Emperor, with the Ordo Hereticus pulling rank if the Eccelisarchy gets out of line or if they need SoB's for counter-terrorist operations or the cleansing of a cult network. They are also much more highly indoctrinated than either force, in terms of purtians views. Grey Knights are trained+indoctrinated pretty much exclusively to hunt daemons and Chaos; xenos are a grey area in their 'worldview'. Likewise, Deathwatch are designed (as an organisation) to ignore their Chapter prejudices and defer to the ranking Inquisitor (or Captain, who has orders from an Inquisitor on what to do). SoB have a broad-spectrum brainwash from an early age. They literally hate anything that deviates from the human norm. If you're Chaos, you're dead. If you're a mutant, you're dead (unless an Inquisitor says he wants the psyker/null for a purpose). If you're an alien, your also dead (along with anyone else who associates with xenos). A Hereticus Inquisitor can conceivably pull rank and say 'shoot the heretics over the Eldar', but given the high likelyhood the Inquisitor in question is a Puritan, it's likely he'll just say 'shoot eveything dead, starting with the closest targets'.

 

So, in summary;

 

Ordo Malleus: Eldar = sometime ally, other aliens dependable on Inquisitor/situation on the ground. Necrons and Tyranids are always enemies.

Ordo Xenos: All aliens dependable on Inquisitor/situation on the ground. Necrons and Tyranids are always enemies, and are the two primary threats currently being dealt with by the Ordo Xenos.

Ordo Hereticus: SoB hate everything non-human by default. Would take extreme circumstances (we're talking 'both have their backs against the same wall vs Genestealer cult etc', or the improbable Radical Hereticus Inquisitor (it's possible but unlikely) pulling rank and granting priority to Chaos/whatever over the aliens. Again, Necrons+Tyranids are always enemies.

[Melissia]

a group of Sisters accepting temporary aid from a squad of Eldar rangers to pursue a group of chaos cultists who are summoning a daemon to take over a world? Yeah.. they'd work together. And hopefully the cultists and the daemon will take out the rangers for them and save them the ammo. :P

And if not, the rangers would know to get the hell outtta dodge before their increased cover saves are ignored :P

[march10k]

honor of being buried beneath the eternal watch of the emperor on his golden throne.

 

I meant beneath the temple to the Emperor on Titan

 

Uh...yeah. That briefs well, but all things considered, I'm guessing that very few GK corpses are recovered. I'd say that more than half of dead GK end up leaving no residue, or the entire expedition is wiped out, or, well, it's a dangerous galaxy.

 

 

"Can I get a time out to recover my dead? See, I've promised my men that I'll give them this nifty burial, and if I don't keep that promise, they might not fight as hard, which would be bad, cause then you might beat us, so..."

[Tauren]

Considering that all marine chapters recover there dead if at all possible due to the limited supply of gene-seed I find it lacing in the ideal that the knights just happen to lose alot. Unlike the table-top version I highly doubt that the grey knights lose the bodies of all there dead to overrunning daemons, else there would be far fewer safe areas.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Tauren Posted Today, 08:24 AM

Considering that all marine chapters recover there dead if at all possible due to the limited supply of gene-seed I find it lacing in the ideal that the knights just happen to lose alot.

 

SM chapters recover the progenoid glands holding the gene-seed, not the whole body. Whilst they will wish to give their brothers a decent and honourable send-off, securing the body is secondary to securing the progenoid glands, which can be carried on an Apothecary's belt and recovered during the heat of battle in less than a minute.

 

There's a little inconsistency here, as GK Apothecaries have never been mentioned, we just assume that they are able to recover the gene-seed. Either way the future of the chapter comes first.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

In the 'Grey Knight' series by Ben Counter, Justicar Alaric cuts out the progenoid glands of fallen brothers. The survivors then take their ammo and bury them in shallow graves in the field, for later retrieval (if at all possible).

 

GK Apothecaries do exist, Ben Counter mentions one tending to Alaric back on Titan after a dangerous mission (don't remember which book exactly).