jervis johnson replies

[treadhead]

ok a while back i sent a letter to jervis asking for some clarification about the forthcoming inquisition codex heres his reply I'll skip the pleasantries as they dont really apply

I asked about the new combined inquisition codex and the rumours that the ordo xenos are going to be short changed (in terms of an actual army list) here's the reply

 

 

"The rumours you've heard about codex inquisition are correct in that it has been put on the back burner for the time being, but wrong in terms of the reasons for this.

In a nutshell, we are concentrating on our existing armies for the time being, and only when we are confident that we can support them well with reguar new releases will we consider releasing a 'new' army. This means that we will be carrying on supprting the daemon hunters and witch hunters with new releases and their own updated codexes (as they are existing armies) the ordo xenos will have to wait quite a while before we can get round to it."

yours sincerely JJ

 

It sounds like the combined codex idea has been forgotten and that the 2 existing branches are getting either reinforced or some new models at some point over the next few years but that the ordo xenos is going to be the unloved child for a good while longer, :) so id better get back to work on my version lol

[Melissia]

This confirms what we have already heard a few times.

[Eddie Orlock]

... And my deathwatch resume their honourble duty of guarding my shelf against foul Xeno taint. Pity, I keep hoping for happy news.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

What about the HQ-slot Deathwatch Kill-team? Do they not count as an 'existing army'? :P

[Aidoneus]

I don't see how they would. Otherwise, you'd have to count every single White Dwarf squad an "existing army" in its own right. In the meantime, be thankful that GW hasn't completely forgotten DH and WH, and just use Sternguard Vets as counts-as Deathwatch.

[treadhead]

GW might get round to it by 2012,ish maybe, or write your own version :P :P

[templargdt]

What I don't understand is why it is that GW can't simply have a release plan longer than a few months. If you do 1 codex a quarter, just say 'for the next 8 quarters, here is our plan.'

[Wulfen Lord Leo]

What I don't understand is why it is that GW can't simply have a release plan longer than a few months. If you do 1 codex a quarter, just say 'for the next 8 quarters, here is our plan.'

Because they may have to delay something for more playtesting. Its not flexible if they say 8 quarters. 4 quarters maybe but not 8.

[Shunch]

What I don't understand is why it is that GW can't simply have a release plan longer than a few months. If you do 1 codex a quarter, just say 'for the next 8 quarters, here is our plan.'

Because they may have to delay something for more playtesting. Its not flexible if they say 8 quarters. 4 quarters maybe but not 8.

 

I also think it's about economics. If consumers know that, say, Dark Eldar are going to be redone in 6 months, then they're obviosuly not going to go buy a new army of 'em until then. By holding their schedule back as long as they can without inciting a riot, GW can earn the margin of people who buy a brand-new army a few months before it's totally redone, or any number of other instances I'm not thinking of.

 

I'm not saying its nice, but GW is a company. They thrive on poor choices made by the consumer.

[ArmouredWing]

What I don't understand is why it is that GW can't simply have a release plan longer than a few months. If you do 1 codex a quarter, just say 'for the next 8 quarters, here is our plan.'

Because they may have to delay something for more playtesting. Its not flexible if they say 8 quarters. 4 quarters maybe but not 8.

 

I also think it's about economics. If consumers know that, say, Dark Eldar are going to be redone in 6 months, then they're obviosuly not going to go buy a new army of 'em until then. By holding their schedule back as long as they can without inciting a riot, GW can earn the margin of people who buy a brand-new army a few months before it's totally redone, or any number of other instances I'm not thinking of.

 

I'm not saying its nice, but GW is a company. They thrive on poor choices made by the consumer.

 

There could also be the element of the current economic climate to take into account. IG have been on the release schedule for quite a while and they'll release them because they are a pretty popular army for many people, so they've already got an audience to sell to.

 

DE on the other hand seem to be undergoing a complete overhaul and becuase it has been years and years since their last update I'd imagine that GW are uncertain as to how much of a draw they'll be on release. That being the case maybe they're taking the view that the best time to release these less played armies is when there's significantly more disposable income out there to spend on them?

[Toogeloo]

What I don't understand is why it is that GW can't simply have a release plan longer than a few months. If you do 1 codex a quarter, just say 'for the next 8 quarters, here is our plan.'

 

Actually, what I don't get is why don't they similtaneously release New Codecii with new editions of the game? You don't see people trying to use their D&D Skills and Powers Books in D&D 3.5/4.0, right? Wouldn't it be simpler to release a new codex for each army that fits into the theme of the game that the new edition presents and give players the option to play the older edition with their old codecii or play tournaments and/or new friendly games with new editions.

 

And further on that note, why release more special characters without including a model for them (eg Vulkan) and why haven't all armies been streamlined into plastic with only special characters made of metal?

 

 

 

Too much of the way GW does things confuses me.

[the jeske]

This means that we will be carrying on supprting the daemon hunters and witch hunters with new releases and their own updated codexes (as they are existing armies) the ordo xenos will have to wait quite a while before we can get round to it.

another words . If we make a new model line for INQ then we will make a new codex for them....but we already know that . the important question when will they start working on any new sob or GK models and the anwser is ... not in the nearest future .

 

 

 

 

ah and the 2 year plan is tied a bit to the fact that a lot of people dont play more then 2 years [am not saying its the only reason am talking about testing and desing here] . If someone would like to start sob now and got the news , that an updated codex [or plans for it] will come in 2010 or later [with the stress put on later] , he may not start playing sob . If he does , he may buy some models , bitch about the game play , switch to sm or any other army that is given a new dex at that time . more sales for GW .

 

look at sw . they have a nice codex now [thx to FAQs and old dex ment for 3ed] , a lot of people are buying stuff that works well now , but has a big chance on not being futured in the coming sw dex [unless GW pushs it back again] those people would never buy those models , if they knew that .

If chaos player [specially those poor EC players] knew 2 or more years in advance that all the FW stuff and metal bitz they are buying now are going to be illegal for 5th , they would think about starting their armies a lot . but right now you get max 6 months before new codex comes [thats if you know people who know people] and can sell your army to save some cash and thats all .

[CelestialSon]

GW should be appauled at the way they treat their community. I look at a company like Catalyst Game Labs, and it seems like they are doing everything in their power to push the boundries of content delivery.

 

Being involved with GW's shenanigans for the better part of 12 years has seen little change in their thinking process. Heck, in the Design Philosophy podcasts (more like, please, we got our reasons) Jes Goodwin pretty much dispelled rumors of Dark Eldar coming out any time soon. Further on that point, he slipped in that models for DE have been in the works for more than a few years.... yeah....

 

So the ][ codexes aren't from 5th ed. So they aren't from 4th ed even. Unfortunatly there has been no attempt by GW to update rules without updating models. Other than the WD BA codex, i can't really recall a time they updated a codex for the good of game.

[Dragons]

What I don't understand is why it is that GW can't simply have a release plan longer than a few months. If you do 1 codex a quarter, just say 'for the next 8 quarters, here is our plan.'

 

For many reasons.. some all ready mentioned.. I'll throw one out that makes the BUSINESS of Games Workshop not seem so *EVIL*..

 

How about because sometimes the scheduling for these things gets delayed or canceled due to unforeseen circumstances.. You think that people have issues with 'm now.. Imagine what would happen if they announced farther than a year out that they were releasing XYZ army and then had to wait more than two because of problems with the Molds for the new mini's production or needing to purchase a new injector system or or or or...

 

Actually, what I don't get is why don't they similtaneously release New Codecii with new editions of the game? You don't see people trying to use their D&D Skills and Powers Books in D&D 3.5/4.0, right? Wouldn't it be simpler to release a new codex for each army that fits into the theme of the game that the new edition presents and give players the option to play the older edition with their old codecii or play tournaments and/or new friendly games with new editions.

 

And further on that note, why release more special characters without including a model for them (eg Vulkan) and why haven't all armies been streamlined into plastic with only special characters made of metal?

 

Related questions.. for the first.. that's easy.. The Codecii are not READY... You think there are rules arguments and a lack of clarity NOW.. Imagine how bad it would be if they just handed one project of 2-3 BOOKS to each of their 'guys' and said.. "Okay.. this one's yours.. update it for the new edition.. All current projects we are working on get delayed 'till we're done so we publish in 90 days.." Okay.. I realize that that is a GROSS exaggeration.... but the point still stands..

 

Games Workshop is a Toy Soldier company at heart that makes some rules to play with them.. NOT a game company.

 

The second question is kinda related.. I don't KNOW.. but I bet there were plans and a release date for Vulcan within the 'new range' window.. But the model was <DELETED BY THE INQUISITION>e... or there were problems casting it.. or there were changes to the rules that made the model not WYSIWYG.. Or any of a dozen other things... So it got pushed back to wait for a better model.

 

 

Too much of the way GW does things confuses me.

 

One thing to keep in mind and if you do it makes things much more clear.. Most things that come out of GW have a FOUR year ramp up.. i.e. from idea to execution to product on the shelf it takes about four years. Now any changes/upgrades/rules etc. that happens along the way make the process longer.. or inferior as it is NOT delayed to not delay something else and then something else ad nausium.

 

It's not really a choice.. the investment is HUGE for any new models.. especially plastic... A SINGLE small injection mold can run upwards of a MILLION DOLLARS... That's a huge investment to have to make every year for products that won't be paying for themselves for a year or two AFTER the investment (each range gets several small and several large plastic molds)...

 

I think I'll step down off my soap box now... I just give GW the benefit of a doubt.. Sure they are publicly traded, so they have to make a profit. But the folks that run the company are FANS of Toy Soldiers as well as shrewd businessmen, and LOVE they hobby they bring to us. I mean.. What's the point in doing it half way if you can do it BETTER. Long term profitability is their company goal and has been for a LOOOONG time. I believe that GW does it as well as can be done currently. As evidenced by the fact that they are STILL here and they are the 900 pound Gorilla in the toy soldier industry. Is there room for improvement? Certainly!.. but amongst all the 'GW SUXXXOR' comments let's try and keep a bit of perspective.

 

thanks for reading this far!

 

-Dragons

[boreas]

I do understand about the big things. What I don't understand is the small ones. Making a new unit in plastic is hard. Re-doing a FAQ is not.

 

And while I'm happy that the =I= codexes will be re-done, the timing is way too long. They could easily re-do all of them, cyclically, every 4 years. That, some will tell me, is the current plan! But how come they didn't understand that a few years ago!? It has been, after all, more than 25 years they've been publishing rules now.

 

I think the main problem is that until 1-2 years ago, GW was managed as a hobby shop by hobby people. They were all over the place doing whatever they "felt" was cool. Now, I think the top management has taken control. Bits? Too expensive to manage: out! Cool new rules sell models: do a 5-years plan to redo all the rules! We need sales now? Re-do the armies from the top-sellers down, starting with SM all the way down to =I=.

 

I'll still gripe, call, send e-mails generally protest. I think that's what got us newer FAQs and possibly enticed FW to put some =I= models out. Maybe not, but who knows!

 

Phil

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Yeah, its not much to ask, its really the same standard that FW operates to with regard to the small things.

 

BTW boreas, I see you've run off with part of my sig! You had best be able to tell me where I've adapted it from. :no:

[Dragons]

I do understand about the big things. What I don't understand is the small ones. Making a new unit in plastic is hard. Re-doing a FAQ is not.

 

You might be surprised... Just playing devil's advocate here... WHO'S FAQ? Now you are right.. It wouldn't take too much time.. to answer one set of FAQ's once per week... But different parts of the world play differently.. and have different concerns.. The Brit -vs- 'merican debates go on and on about play style, importance, rules, beer.. everything. Add in OZ, Spain, FR and everywhere else GW is played you are talking about a monumental amount of work.

 

And while I'm happy that the =I= codexes will be re-done, the timing is way too long. They could easily re-do all of them, cyclically, every 4 years. That, some will tell me, is the current plan! But how come they didn't understand that a few years ago!? It has been, after all, more than 25 years they've been publishing rules now.

 

Actually re-doing the rules to 20someodd armies likely takes MORE than 4 years.. Even 'trimming' it down to the 12 'main' armies that are supported and have 'active' model ranges in addition to the side projects that the Dev's have I would estimate the 'turnaround time' for those 12 to be at about 6.. And the 'core' armies (SM CSM Eldar Orks) Get re-worked more often because 3/4 of the people IN the hobby play them. Simple economics.

 

I think the main problem is that until 1-2 years ago, GW was managed as a hobby shop by hobby people. They were all over the place doing whatever they "felt" was cool. Now, I think the top management has taken control. Bits? Too expensive to manage: out! Cool new rules sell models: do a 5-years plan to redo all the rules! We need sales now? Re-do the armies from the top-sellers down, starting with SM all the way down to =I=.

 

heh.. Sorry to disagree with you, but the 'top management' took control about 15 years ago. and GW went through EXPLOSIVE growth for about 5-6 years. The 'hobby shop, hobby people' haven't been the ones in charge for a looong time. And the hobby is 10 times the size than it was under them. Now the 'top management' are all to some degree or other 'hobby enthusiasts' (it's REQUIRED per company policy!). But the main creative license is still held by the same people it always has.. they just realized that their little hobby company grew to the level that professionals MUST run it.. or it crash's and burns.

 

I'll still gripe, call, send e-mails generally protest. I think that's what got us newer FAQs and possibly enticed FW to put some =I= models out. Maybe not, but who knows!

 

So do I.. and I spend a lot of time daydreaming about what might be in the future! :no:

 

In the end.. I love my hobby.. All the aspects of it.. and spend an inordinate amount of time and money to push toy soldiers around the table with my friends with a tasty adult beverage.

 

Do I want better? Heck yeah!

 

Mostly I was just trying to illuminate some who have the 'kneejerk' reaction about things in our hobby that they don't like/are dissatisfied.

 

-Dragons

[boreas]

Actually, GW should settle all the current armies once and for all and then publish a supplement. Twice a year, you get a compendium with new rules and units for each armies. Then the units are made and sold during the next 6 months.

 

Grand Master Tyrak, I laughed so hard I couldn't resist. Let me guess it's from Starship Troopers?

 

Phil

[Grand Master Tyrak]

boreas Posted Today, 05:43 PM

Grand Master Tyrak, I laughed so hard I couldn't resist. Let me guess it's from Starship Troopers?

 

Nope, its from Red Dwarf. Series V, Episode 6, Back to Reality, if you're interested. The main characters are experiencing a group hallucination of themselves in a totalitarian fascist state, and come across a poster saying that, only with "government informer". So I nicked it.

[Inquisitor Fox]

"You mean to tell me you've been playing the Prat version of Rimmer all this time?"

 

Dwayne Dibbley was awesome :D

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Inquisitor NicolePyykkonen Posted Today, 07:01 PM

"You mean to tell me you've been playing the Prat version of Rimmer all this time?"

 

Dwayne Dibbley was awesome B)

 

Oh don't make me start. :rolleyes:

 

The sad thing is I remembered that all off the top of my head. ;)

 

Back on topic, does anyone else agree that GW should at least try to match FW's standards?

[Inquisitor Fox]

Forge World seems to do a very thorough job.. I think it's a little easier for them because they just do detailed work on stuff that GW has already made the framework for.. but it does seem a little odd the subsidiary has better seeming stuff. Go figure. It more or less evens out in the wash though, because while FW standards seem higher, they have a smaller pool of stuff they're working on, as opposed to GW with a massive basework to do list.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Not in terms of FAQs and proofreading. GW and FW have about the same amount of stuff, seeing as WD has a whole section to itself that often doesn't involve those writers currently doing codexes.

[Dragons]

Forge World seems to do a very thorough job.. I think it's a little easier for them because they just do detailed work on stuff that GW has already made the framework for.. but it does seem a little odd the subsidiary has better seeming stuff. Go figure. It more or less evens out in the wash though, because while FW standards seem higher, they have a smaller pool of stuff they're working on, as opposed to GW with a massive basework to do list.

 

 

Their prices are also usually substantially higher than GW... and it would be REALLY bad for GW to come close to FW's prices regardless of the quality. (IMHO)

 

-Dragons

[Inquisitor Fox]

I was thinking more along the lines of trying to design not only Warhammer 40k, but also Warhammer Fantasy and Lord of the Rings, as well as any expansion sets, ongoing summer campaigns, new model releases, things like that. Forge World seems to have it a little bit easier because they do story driven 40k releases only, making models for armies as they wish and writing into their stories. It seems a bit easier of a job because they don't have to invent as many new rules and do as much of a balancing act.. they just have to keep their stuff in line with what GW has already done.