Grey Knights Vs MC heavy Chaos Daemons

[Deadshane]

Got a game this sunday.

 

His army will have scarbrand, another bloodthirster, 3 Nurgle Daemon princes, 2 units of 'bearers, and one unit of 'letters, possibly a unit of 3 Bloodcrushers....thats what I know about his list

 

Game will be between 1750-1850 probably with a small chance of a 2000 pt game.

 

I'm not totally a noob with my Knights, I wrote the "guide for the Masochistic" on dakka concerning Grey Knights (with large props to Silent as I consider myself to play in his style)

 

What I've got availiable.

 

I use 3 Land Raiders, classic lascannon version

3 units of 6 PAGK no special weapons

 

My mix-up or customisation if needed will come within my terminators This is what I have.

 

A grandmaster/brother captain model

Stern

2xpsycannon termies

1xincinerator termie

2xthunderhammer termies

3 or 4 stormbolter termies

 

Not sure at this point if I'm going to go GM AND Stern for double Force Weapon action using DH force weapons that even slice Eternal warriors, or If I want to go cheap with numbers on the terminators.

 

Tell me what you guys think my options are and I'll post my report soon after the game on sunday/monday.

[revnow]

Consolidate the PAGK squads into larger numbers like 2x9

run 2 of the raiders with PAGK inside

Elite squad of BC (daemonhammer), 1 psycannon, 1 TH, 2 Storm bolters

HQ Stern (run as GM NOT Stern w/ mastercrafted NFW and SS) w/ retinue of 1 psycannon, incinerator, 2 SBs, 1 TH

 

The key will be getting the right unit to unit matchup. I cannot stress how important it is to let everything assault you except the Daemon Princes and plaugebearers, and the Princes is only if they have cloud of flies. Remember to assault you, all of his models have to take a difficult terrain test, which means that they all assault at I1. If the Nurglies have cloud of flies they count as having grenades. In the case that your opponent does take CoF just try to avoid them and chase them down with the Raiders.

 

PAGK should drive around in the 2 LRs until the Bloodletters land and then pop out for a round of stormbolter fire. Do not charge them. Your opp will either have to make the Hobson's choice of running away, or assaulting you at I1, either is fine. If he runs, chase them down. If he assaults, you should be able to do more than enough wounds with the NFWs to finish the squad. The same does not apply for the plaugebearers who are I2. The justicar's NFW should be especially helpful again them as it prevents FNP. The Elite Termies would be ideal against the plaguebearers, but only use them in this instance if neither the bloodcrushers nor the bloodthirster are on the board, or either are nearby and will be assaulting anyways.

 

The Elite Termies need to deal with the bloodthirster and the bloodcrushers. If the bloodthirster has blessing of the blood god it is preferable that it does not engage the GK as the NFW is wasted on it.

 

Scarbrand does not have blessing of the bloodgod so it should be the primary target of your GM. You are going to take some horrific wounds either assaulting or being assaulted. But, your GM stands a much better chance of surviving against Breath of Chaos than charging Skarbrand and facing 6 S8 attacks hitting on 3s with re-rolls. Remember you can take a wound from BoC on the GM without suffering instant death, but the same isn't true with Skarbrand's attacks. Also, if your opponent is smart he won't attack (imagine Khorne doing that, sheesh) and will just follow you around BoCing the squad. In the case that this happens you will have to attack and just hope that 6 attacks with re rolls to wound will generate an unsaved wound, allowing you to pop Skarbrand.

 

Oddly enough, if your opponent is good, the Land Raiders (followed by the PAGKs) will be the softest targets. Their job is to deliver the PAGKs against the Bloodletters and Plaguebearers and then go hunt Daemon Princes. Even though the Princes are MCs, they still need a 10 on a 2D6 roll to even pen, not counting at least 4+ to hit, so don't be afraid to get close to them, but avoid the bloodthirster and Skarbrand if you can.

 

Bait Bait Bait. This army has very little shooting and so he will have to attack you with his assault units eventually. Your job is to make sure you assault the units that don't take a hit from Rights of Exorcism (The plaguebearers) and that you take the assault from everything that does normally assault before you (all the Khorne stuff). You also need to make sure the right units assault the right units. This means waiting for the deepstrike and then getting up in a units face with incinerators, psycannons, and stormbolters in order to bait an attack.

 

Play it smart and this should be a solid win for the Ordo, good luck and may the blessings of the god emperor go with you.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

His army will have scarbrand, another bloodthirster, 3 Nurgle Daemon princes, 2 units of 'bearers, and one unit of 'letters, possibly a unit of 3 Bloodcrushers....thats what I know about his list

 

Yeah, he'll have buggerall Troops if he's taking that many 'tank' characters...so I'd say you have a good advantage

 

Ok, so lets first of all classify his army into three camps:

 

 

3+ armour: HQ, Heavy and Elite

Only invul but FNP: Plaguebearers

Only invulnerable saves: Bloodletters

 

So, for your own HQ, you need the following:

 

Grandmaster, daemonhammer, NFW, 'Destroy Daemon', Grimoire, Sacred Incense

GKT w/NFW+incinerator, 2 x GKT's w/TH+SS

(363 points)

 

This unit is total death to his heavy hitters. The Grandmaster hits ahead of all of his Daemons , stunning them with his daemonhammer. The incinerator dude prevents you getting beat by Bloodletter packs (lets you fry them down to a manageable size, so their return attacks at I1 don't kill you), while the TH+SS dudes improve your defences, take wounds for the GM and pile extra S8 stunning attacks into the enemy Daemons. The Grandmaster can't be picked out from his retinue in close-combat, making them invaluable for soaking up the pitiful return damage you may have to weather.

 

Elite:

 

(2) Inquisitor, Sanctuary, 2 x Mystics, plasma cannon servitor

(92 points)

 

Sit them behind the line of PAGK and use them to 'double-detect'. Use the servitor to scour away his Plaguebearers+Bloodcrushers, use the PAGK if you need to kill Bloodletters, use the Hellfire Dreads if you wanna soften up his 'tank' characters.

 

Troops:

 

(3) Justicar w/targeter, 7 x PAGK, 2 x psycannons

(276 points each)

 

The backbone of your army, and the crucial element in eliminating his large Bloodletter packs (the most dangerous threat to the army). Even if charged by his Daemons you'll hit first with your S6 attacks, so you have a good chance of ripping a wound or two off the enemy 'tank', before it starts dismembering the squad. The good part is that due to Fearless, you'll hold it in combat for a turn, allowing your GM to reposition with his 'bitch-slap posse' for a counter-assault.

 

Heavy Support:

 

(2) GK Dreadnought, twin-lascannon, missile launcher

(140 points each)

 

These guys will be crucial for chipping wounds off the big beasties before the GM finishes them off. They can also do heaps of damage to his Bloodcrushers, prior to being finished off by the plasma cannon servitor.

 

GK Landraider Crusader

(255 points)

 

Move the GM around to counter-assault big things, also good for cleaning up the Bloodletters.

 

That all comes to 1,910 points all up.

 

 

I use 3 Land Raiders, classic lascannon version

 

I prefer Crusader, but if you can't 'count-as' or model it differently than one of these will be ok. The extra lascannon is always handy, especially against the Bloodthirster.

 

3 units of 6 PAGK no special weapons

 

Not good. You need psycannon models, or a way to 'count-as', because you badly need to wipe out the Bloodletters before they assault you. Storm bolters only wear them down gradually, you need the psycannons to quickly reduce them down to pitiful remnants, which can be easily slapped down with a few S6 hits to the face. Maybe you could use the psycannon Termies/storm bolter Termies to 'count-as' ?

 

A grandmaster/brother captain model

 

Yep, he'll do nicely. Just be clear on the wargear loadout (ie the one I suggested above) with your opponent, in case he gets confused by the model.

 

1xincinerator termie+2xthunderhammer termies

 

Excellent, thats the retinue sorted.

 

2xpsycannon termies+3 or 4 stormbolter termies

 

Add to your PAGK squads to 'count-as' psycannon-armed PAGK. Unless you can get the proper models...

 

 

So, the other models you need are Inquisitors+retinue and the Dreadnoughts.

[Captain Malachi]

His army will have scarbrand, another bloodthirster, 3 Nurgle Daemon princes, 2 units of 'bearers, and one unit of 'letters, possibly a unit of 3 Bloodcrushers....thats what I know about his list

 

Yeah, he'll have buggerall Troops if he's taking that many 'tank' characters...so I'd say you have a good advantage

Don't count on it, my 2k point army has 5 MCs and 5 troops choices, though admittedly nothing else. I'd recommend shooting the 'letters, as they have a lot of power weapon attacks, will probably do more damage than the MCs to your PAGK units. Raiders are tough to pop for a daemonzilla army, chances are his princes will be S6, so not a very high chance of a pen there, 'thirster and Skarbrand have a much higher chance though, and they're both fairly fast, so watch out for them. Best bet for taking them down is a few termies, you'll lose a couple fighting them, but hopefully you'll come out on top, otherwise, lots of lascannon shots should take a would or 2 off. Watch out for Skarbrands breath attack, a lot of people don't see it coming, and if he gets it off you'll lose a lot of points worth of troops in one hit.

[iamnothere]

I don't think anyone has said it yet but MCs are fully effective even if they have ONE wound left. That means you have to concentrate your fire to the exclusion of all else and try to take 2 down a turn.

 

It's a tall order I know, especially with those bloodletters hanging around. One tactic you may consider when in combat with both letters and MCs is to allocate as many attacks to the letters (don't forget they'll go last if they charge you) to try to win combat. That way the fearless MCs will have to take armour saves equal to the ammount you won combat by. Quite handy for high toughness MCs.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Don't count on it, my 2k point army has 5 MCs and 5 troops choices, though admittedly nothing else.

 

Yeah, but here's the caveat; each Troops choice is 10 models or less (if you're cramming 5 of them in with a 5 reasonably-tooled MC's), which makes them perfect Mystic bait. I'll probably kill them all with psycannons+massed storm bolter before they reach close-combat.

 

Raiders are tough to pop for a daemonzilla army, chances are his princes will be S6, so not a very high chance of a pen there, 'thirster and Skarbrand have a much higher chance though, and they're both fairly fast, so watch out for them.

 

Well, S6+2D6 is pretty likely, especially since each Prince gets about 4-5 attacks on the Raider. As for the HQ monsters, definately don't let them get close enough to assault. Bloodthirster will tear a Landraider apart with ease, Skarbrand same deal.

Best bet for taking them down is a few termies, you'll lose a couple fighting them, but hopefully you'll come out on top, otherwise, lots of lascannon shots should take a would or 2 off.

 

Not a few; I recommend the 'bitch-slap posse' and Grandmaster team I listed earlier. That will deal with any surviving MC's pretty easily (remember, you should've gotten off 2 rounds of Mystic-guided Hellfire shooting into them, plus your own turn of shooting).

 

Watch out for Skarbrands breath attack, a lot of people don't see it coming, and if he gets it off you'll lose a lot of points worth of troops in one hit.

 

Yeah, a Raider would come in handy, because

A: You move in and assault him out of it or

B: He pops it open (you hop out of the wreck), but misses out on shooting+assault the Terminators inside. Then, you counter-charge him, or let him charge you

I don't think anyone has said it yet but MCs are fully effective even if they have ONE wound left. That means you have to concentrate your fire to the exclusion of all else and try to take 2 down a turn.

 

Oh yeah, I totally agree. 3-4 wounded MC's are far more dangerous than 2-3 on full wounds, with the other two blasted to hell. Do not split fire; concentrate on the toughest stuff (Skarbrand, Bloodthirster, Prince, Bloodletters, in that order) until it dies. That gives your GM the best chance to finish off the remaining MC's, while your PAGK and Inquisitor handle the Bloodletters trying to assault and the Plaguebearers camping the objectives.

 

It's a tall order I know, especially with those bloodletters hanging around. One tactic you may consider when in combat with both letters and MCs is to allocate as many attacks to the letters (don't forget they'll go last if they charge you) to try to win combat. That way the fearless MCs will have to take armour saves equal to the ammount you won combat by. Quite handy for high toughness MCs.

 

They all have 3+ armour saves (the MC's), so don't rely on 'No Retreat' to kill it. Slap it down with massed anti-tank and thunderhammer/daemonhammer to the face. If you do get into a multiple combat, then yes target the Bloodletters (probably counter-charge in a PAGK squad, so they can kill the lesser Daemons with massed S6 while your GKT's and GM concentrate on the big monster).

[Deadshane]

Figured my list for tonight.

 

I'll be using:

 

HQ

 

GM w/psycannon, Icon, Incense

-(3)Terminator Retinue w/1xThunderhammer/SS, 1 Psycannon

 

Brother Captain Stern

 

TROOPS

 

(6)PAGK, Justicar with psybolts

(6)PAGK, Justicar with psybolts

(6)PAGK, Justicar with psybolts

 

HEAVY

 

Land Raider w/psycannon bolts

Land Raider w/psycannon bolts

Land Raider w/psycannon bolts

 

-1850

 

 

 

Thanx to intelligence from assassinorum operatives, I've learned that Scarbrand will likely NOT be part of the force. HQ's will likely consist of a Bloodthirster and Great Unclean one.

 

Forces will likely also include a large squad of flamers.

 

Due to the presence of even more daemons without the benefit of FnP OR armour of any sort, I've decided to step up my compliment of units equipped with Psycannon Bolts. They will be healthily distributed throughout my forces.

 

Also, due to the large concentration of MC's in the viscinity, Brother Captain Stern has decided to join my forces on this occasion on the off chance that information concerning the filth known as M'katchen will be forthcoming thru these higher level daemons. His Force Weapon will be a welcome addition to the force given his proficiency with it.

 

Battlereport will likely be forthcoming this evening.

 

...as a side note, typically, when I run my army, I use a brother captain with an Elite squad of Terminators (3 psycannons firing at max ranges) sometimes both with holocaust, no psybolts on the LR's, and targetters on the Justicars. My friend at the game store specifically wants to fight my DH's, and I dont think that particular force has a snowballs chance against 5 MC's. I am normally loathe to switch up my "take all comers" list, but for this time, I think its absolutely needed. This Daemon army is an extreme list. I'm sort of tempted to see if maneuvering and smart play could carry the day, but I think I'd rather smoke him first. Maybe some other time with my basic list. :(

[Gentlemanloser]

3 Nurgle Daemon princes

 

I really hate to be negative here, but if he's fileding that, don't play.

 

Or do somethign equally <insert overpowerd term of choice here> yourself.

 

Abuse Mystics and Sanctuary.

 

Anything else, and you're in for an unfun game where these will march all over everythign else you field.

 

Forces will likely also include a large squad of flamers.

 

I hate these more than Harliquins now. Seriously, they suck to face.

[Skytear]

I would say play him still, but tell him that 3 Nurgle DP are overrpowered. Legal but....yeah, unfairly tough.

(Just don't get into an argument about it being allowed or whatever. It's your opinion, not his.)

 

Then play it, see how it goes - the things I go against are usually khornesque slaughterfests or lash lists, I've not

too much experience with three nurgle Daemonprinces. Keep your Grandmaster alive, that will give him something to worry.

 

Also, from your list I gather you don't take the grimoire against chaos? Are you -sure-?

I find it awesome myself.

 

Lots of psycannon bolts also. Those hurt, but you could loose them and field psycannons instead. (you can save 60 points by loosing the bolts, enough

for almost 2 psycannons. Stormbolters are ST4 Psycannons come at ST6 but you know that anyway) Put them somewhere protected and they will psy-dakka good. Your Terminators, I'm not sure about your gameplan, might spent a lot of time in CC also, so you might wanna loose some Psycannons there as well?

 

Also, loosing 1 Terminator will net you points for a simple Inquisitor (2o pts) with two mystics (12 pts) or a Lord equivalent being able

to direct a unit in the vicinity to hammer away at deepstrikers. If you're pure DK however, that won't fit.

 

I agree more with Reclusiarch D here, psycannons, some heavily tooled hero unit and LRs should do it.

I would leave out the dreads as I'm pro raider.

 

In any case: Good luck bro,

tell us how it went, willya? xD

[Deadshane]

Also, from your list I gather you don't take the grimoire against chaos? Are you -sure-?

I find it awesome myself.

 

Stern has one, they're 1 per army.

Lots of psycannon bolts also. Those hurt, but you could loose them and field psycannons instead. (you can save 60 points by loosing the bolts, enough

for almost 2 psycannons. Stormbolters are ST4 Psycannons come at ST6 but you know that anyway) Put them somewhere protected and they will psy-dakka good. Your Terminators, I'm not sure about your gameplan, might spent a lot of time in CC also, so you might wanna loose some Psycannons there as well?

I've always considered psycannon's on PAGK's a waste considering the cost of the psycannon on the already expensive marine that is priced considering true grit and a nemesis (both of which you give up for a psycannon). I might be more inclined if psycannon on PAGK were free or +5pts, but for now...dont think so.

 

...of course, there's still time to lose the psycannon on the hero and terminator squad....maybe garnering me another terminator or....

Also, loosing 1 Terminator will net you points for a simple Inquisitor (2o pts) with two mystics (12 pts) or a Lord equivalent being able

to direct a unit in the vicinity to hammer away at deepstrikers. If you're pure DK however, that won't fit.

 

hmmm....

I agree more with Reclusiarch D here, psycannons, some heavily tooled hero unit and LRs should do it.

I would leave out the dreads as I'm pro raider.

 

In any case: Good luck bro,

tell us how it went, willya? xD

 

will do, watch for it tonight.

[Doomaflatchi]

Hope I'm in time to help. If you haven't already, be SURE to take Sanctuary on someone who's inside one of the Land Raiders. If you use that power while inside the Raider,it projects 3 inches from the tank's hull in all directions, which he can neither move nor draw line of fire through. Against Daemons, that power is essential, and if he's running three Nurgle daemon princes, you can give him a little taste of his own medicine. :lol:

 

To pay for sanctuary, I'd honestly recommend taking off they psycannon bolts on the Raiders in favor of the psychic power. Especially when he has so many high toughness targets, you're statistically better off wounding on a 2+ and giving him a 4+ invulnerable save than just wounding on a 6 with the Heavy Bolters, so I think you're better off ignoring them and using Power of the Machine Spirit to fire the Lascannons instead.

[Captain Malachi]

You guys do realise a nurgle prince is still just a T6 monster with a few wounds? It can die to bolter fire for petes sake!

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Captain Malachi Posted Today, 07:28 PM

You guys do realise a nurgle prince is still just a T6 monster with a few wounds? It can die to bolter fire for petes sake!

 

Its still moving towards the Daemon equivalent of the Super Star Destroyer. Kill them one at a time with everything you have. Concentrate firepower!

[Gentlemanloser]

You guys do realise a nurgle prince is still just a T6 monster with a few wounds? It can die to bolter fire for petes sake!

 

I might be off on the stats, but it's 4 wounds with a 3+/5++ save, 12" move, a shooting attack that's a template, gives no armour save and wounds anything on a 4+. With a Power Weapon attack (4/5 on the charge I think?) that hits on 3's, wounds on 2's (versus just about anything Marines have), can reroll all failed wounds, and has a 2d6 Penetration for Vehilces, and is immune to ID. IT can also be given antoher shootign attack, and as a MC can shoot both a turn. I think you can also give it another power to let it shoot at different units.

 

What more does it actually want.

 

Seriously.

 

Facing one of these is hard enough. Facing three is utter overkill and downright unfun to play. Unless you get your fun from watching three MCs roll over your entire army.

[Deadshane]

Ok, great example here of what NOT to do with your water warriors.....

 

I've had a problem with 5e ever since it came out. Something about it always seems to elude me, there is a reason for this of course, and its my lack of playing. A few months before 5e I dropped 40k and pretty much played warmachine/hordes and warhammer. This had a huge impact on my gaming.

 

5e comes out and now I make tons of stupid mistakes that noobs make constantly. Not only was this game a horrendous example of that, but it was also an example of what happens when you deviate from your "Water Warrior" theme and think you have a better plan in mind.

 

I dont blame dice, I always blame myself for losses, especially horrendous ones. The results of this game were totally my fault, and it started with the fact that I wanted to change my list.

 

Why did I want to change up my tourney list in the first place? My opponent has 5 monstrous creatures, four of which fly, I figured I had no choice but to basically fight all five of them in close combat, so, what did I do? Immediatly looked to what I had availiable to forceweapon him off of the table. That deviates from the waterwarrior plan obviously. I immediatly shifted into a gear where I was playing HIS game. HtH against 5 monstrous creatures....I was destined to lose from the get go.

 

Again I dont blame dice, luckily they were terribly generous for me this game....in that they rolled horribly, you'll see why I give that reaction

 

THE BATTLE REPORT

 

My army, same as my last post above.

 

His army

 

Scarbrand

Bloodthirster

 

7 plaguebearers

7 plaguebearers

7 plaguebearers

8 bloodletters

8 bloodletters

 

(these numbers are fairly accurate.)

 

Nurgle daemon prince with all the toys

Same

Same

 

Mission Capture and control(?)...the two objective mission

Parameters-Dawn of war.

 

I win the initiative, and choose to go second with all of my units off of the board.

 

His objective is deployed within a 1' by 1' peice of difficult terrain on his side of the board toward MY left side inside his deployment zone.

I have my objective deployed in a 1' by 1' peice of difficult ruins terrain on my side of the board basically in the middle.

 

These peices of terrain are the only terrain that had an effect in the battle.

 

Keep in mind, my tactics are completely WRONG. I am playing a Water Warrior style army as if it is a fire or air/fire list, there is a reason this Batrep will be so short.

 

 

 

TURN 1

 

his chosen first wave shows up....all of the monstrous creatures.

 

His creatures drop close to my terrain peice holding MY objective. One daemon prince and the bloodthirster just to my left of the terrain, Scarbrand and another Prince towards the middle, and the remaining prince drops just to my right of the terrain....all outside my deployment zone (about 15" away from my board edge), my terrain peice is of course almost entirely within my deployment zone.

 

My turn, I figure he's played directly into my hands. I'm going to connect the attack across his three creatures, scarbrand, and the two daemon princes....planning on taking out two of them with force weapons...and drawing me FAR to my right with a consolidation move...drawing his monsters toward my right side of the board.

 

My first landraider moves onto the board and needs to move thru the difficult terrain to reach both nurgle princes....and of course immobilises itself....my game plan is instantly crap, and now I'm confused on what to do.

I decide to go thru with my plans and roll my second landraider into the terrain in order to double-charge skarbrand and the nurgle prince. My third loaded LR deploys to my far left in support but ready to make a break for his objective if things get messy early.

My last PAGK unit moves on for some simple storm bolter fire against the far right DP since now I wont be able to connect it into the big melee....my immobilised LR squad disembarks to also lend stormbolters to the fight.

During my shooting I manage to put two wounds onto the far right DP, far Left DP saves a lascannon hit for no wounds and saves a heavy bolter hit from a landraider as well.

NOOB MISTAKE!- When I deployed my terminators for the charge, I was still in difficult terrain....I'm charging thru terrain without grenades. I forgot about the penalty (he was well outside the terrain, not really looking like he was "defending" cover) My sacred incense is useless this turn.

Scarbrand kills the Grand master and T-hammer termie before they even swing. (he hit and wounded the retinue with str 8 6 times, GM rolled a 3 for his Icon save) DP hits bounce off of stern (lucky), stern forceweapons the daemonprince. I lose combat by one and make my armour save.

 

TURN 2

 

Everything comes on of his except for a single unit of Plaguebearers. One of his plaguebearers gets lost in the warp and dies due to deviating on one of my units and him rolling bad for the result. Everything else that comes in has no real effect on the game. He moves his DP on my right to assault the grey knights that walked onto the board...then charges.

His bloodthirster charges the GM's retinue.

Daemonprince charges my fast moving LR that disgorged the terminators

 

DP kills 3 grey knights, no return wounds, I fail two saves for fearless, the justicar is left.

Scarbrand and Stern kill each other.

Bloodthirster kills remaining two terminators

DP does nothing to the LR.

 

My turn two.

I still am able to go for a tie...I have a plan.

I attempt to move thru difficult terrain towards the still mobile landraider with the unit that got out of the immobilised one. Difficult terrain check....Snake eyes. Instead I move out of terrain for the next best thing, a charge on the wounded DP to try and kill it out of spite.

 

The DP that charged my LR needs to die however, I move my loaded LR to keep at max range with stormbolters and disgorge my troops inside, they will be safe If I can kill this thing, grey knights, two landraiders, and an immobilised LR with left facing can fire at it to kill it off and keep me at a safe distance with my objective grabbign force. I attempt to move the mobile LR in the terrain in the middle out of cover. "1" (right after I rolled that double 1 with the troopers)

 

At this point I concede defeat.

 

I have two landraiders immobilised and 7 grey knights essentially fighting a fresh DP, fresh BLOODTHIRSTER, and a half wounded daemonprince. They will all totally die as my opponent isnt terribly stupid. (as I was this game) This would leave a land raider and a unit of Grey Knights to stem the tide.

 

WHAT DID I DO WRONG?

 

It starts with the army building. I went in with a plan to charge against a Daemonzilla list. Whats wrong with THAT picture? That fact coupled with bad dangerous terrain rolls early in the game spelled my doom.

After looking at the state of the board and anylising the game, I realised that my basic tournement list would've done MUCH better against him....but then I would've been actually using Water Warrior tactics.

 

This thread is not over....I challenged him to a rematch. I will be playing him this Tuesday....with a list that is TRULY waterwarrior, and using those very tactics.

 

I'll post the army I'll be using tomorrow. Stay tuned, this is not over.

[Tauren]

Hmmm... Seems like you need more shooting on these daemons as they come in. Maybe just be me but you shot try to unload as much as possible into his daemons before he gets into combat, the fact that you have your knights mounted at the start puzzles me. There are so many tools you are missing out on by not using those land-raiders as expensive road-blocks/fodder. On top of that the sanctuary trick provides huge road-blocks. Additionally keeping your units close together and taking an relic will allow you to throw out some real combat punch when he finally does connect. If anything psycannons are good tools that tear into daemons at range. Concentrate your fire, kill the big monsters 1 at a time.

[revnow]

ref my OP

[Captain Malachi]

Gentlemanloser, first off, no it can't shoot at multiple units, not unless you can somehow give it the mark of Tzeentch and the mark of Nurgle (which you can't), and second, once you've done all that it costs about 300 points! If my opponent did that I'd thank him.

 

Edit- Re-roll all failed wounds? What?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I'll address the Nurgle Prince issue first, because it seems to be confusing people:

 

Winged Nurgle Prince, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Noxious Touch, Cloud of Flies, Breath of Chaos

(265 points)

 

Most people don't take Wings, because they cost so much and he already Deepstrikes, so mobility isn't a huge issue. That drops the Nurgle Prince down to 205 points each (which are easier to spam). You don't often see Unholy Might either (S5+2D6 is about as good as S6+2D6), but I included it anyway.

 

So, what does this monster do?

 

Movement: Normal (with Wings he has jump pack movement), rolling 3D6 and picking highest when bashing through difficult terrain

 

Shooting: An AP2 flamer that wounds everything on a 2+

 

Assault: 5 x S6 poisoned attacks (wounds on a 2+, re-rolls any 1's to wound against anything with T6 or less) at WS7/I5 (he also counts has having frag grenades, so 'Rites of Exorcism' and actual difficult terrain don't drop him to I1), against vehicles he rolls his S6+2D6.

 

His defences: You don't get the charge bonus against him (cos he also counts as having defensive grenades), T6 with 4 wounds and 3+/5+ save, and Fearless and immune to ID.

 

 

It's pretty brutal and with the only other unit competing in Heavy being the Soulgrinder, you'll see a trio of these in many 'Daemonzilla' lists. They're arguably as tough as any of the Greater Daemons and they're perfect for killing high-Toughness Monstrous Creatures or wiping out heavy infantry.

[Gentlemanloser]

Gentlemanloser, first off, no it can't shoot at multiple units, not unless you can somehow give it the mark of Tzeentch and the mark of Nurgle (which you can't), and second, once you've done all that it costs about 300 points! If my opponent did that I'd thank him.

 

Edit- Re-roll all failed wounds? What?

 

MC's can't split their fire? My bad, must have been thinking aobut the MoT. But they could be given (for exmaple) Breath of Choas (or is the Daemon version Wind?) and Dread Gaze and fire both.

 

It doesn't matter if they cost 300 points when you tool them out, they are too good, and do too much. Imagine one with Wings and Breath heading towards either a squad or a LR. It's quite capable of taking any and everything out. With great durability and manueverability.

 

The reroll is Poisoned Weapon, which if thier 5/6 STR is greater than thier Targets T, allows them to reroll and failed wounds.

 

As for the Bat Rep, Dawn of War far favours the Dameon List.

 

Edit: Beaten too it. ^_^

 

Edit2:

 

One of his plaguebearers gets lost in the warp and dies due to deviating on one of my units and him rolling bad for the result.

 

That should have resulted in the loss of the entire squad.

[Skytear]

In any case, it's good you challenged him for a rematch - always good to improve on yourself ^_^

But now, you'll have time to sit over and brood and change your army list.

 

Reclusiarch D and Revnow said it and I'll echo them, don't have much more to say.

(Except I favour LRs over Dreads)

 

I sometimes write a quick sheet of NO-GOs and Tactics down, to not loose focus.

It helps me sometimes to stay in the bigger and broader perspective.

 

Practice makes perfect - you'll beat him. You will certainly give him a much harder time next fight.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Any chance you could switch to 1 LR, 1 LRC and one CC Dreadnought? That should give you a bit more all round firepower, cut down on points and give your Dreadnought the chance to take off a few MC wounds in CC.

[Gentlemanloser]

If you use a Dready, don't ever send it versus the MCs. They'll eat it alive. They'll go first and have fun with 2d6 Armour Penetration.

 

Dreads are absolute gold for sending against Bloodletters/Daemonettes though. Tie them up, and it's nearly impossible for the 'Letters/'nettes to hurt it.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

What the Initiative of the MCs? I was hoping it might have a better chance since the GK Dread is WS 5.

[Gentlemanloser]

I5 to the Dreads I4.

 

:)

 

And the WS5 doesn't matter either.