Grey Knights Vs MC heavy Chaos Daemons

[iamnothere]

Against this type of list the Dread is a waste of points. It will get charged and taken out by the MC before it can do anything. A Land raider on the other hand has a better than even chance of coming out the other side.

 

4+ To hit, average penetration of 13, 1 smiling Landraider. If you use crusaders it's even better because you move over 6 with almost no loss of effect and they now need 6+ to hit.

 

You may also want to try declaring your troop units to be riding in the Raiders during deployment. That way when you pass a reserve roll you get 2 units for the price of 1. If you don't get the roll, don't worry too much as it's one less turn for him to not do anything with.

 

This way when you bring your stuff on you can achieve local superiority and hopefully take down 2 units with no reply.

[Deadshane]

BACK TO BASICS

 

Ok, lets try this again.

 

I'm going back to my original tournement list with a few changes. I'm not having to deal with psychic powers so no hood, and taking the smoke off of my LR's. I dont even use all the points I've spared (list is 1844) but whatever. We'll see if actual WW tactics get me past the second turn.

 

HQ

 

Brother Captain w/Psycannon, Word of the Emperor (fearless only grants immunity to moral and pinning, not leadership), Sacred incense

 

ELITE

 

(7)Terminators-Psycannon, 2xTH/SS,Holocaust, Brother captain with Psycannon

 

TROOPS

 

(6)PAGK, Justicar w/Frag, psycannon bolts, Targetter

(6)PAGK, Justicar w/Frag, psycannon bolts, Targetter

(6)PAGK, Justicar w/Frag, psycannon bolts, Targetter

 

(notice how my troop choices are 666? :lol: I'm loathe to change that.)

 

HEAVY

 

Land raider with Dozerblade

Land raider with Dozerblade

Land raider

 

Lets see how I do....I'll get back to you guys tomorrow.

[Deadshane]

....by the way, the plan is to play the exact same mission, then if time permits, we'll prolly play a second.

[Gentlemanloser]

Drop WotE. I don't think any of the Dameons have under 9 Ld anyway, so the chance of them failing is minimal.

 

Edit: I'd also drop Holocaust. The chance of losign your entire Squad from a Perils o the Warp is too much.

[Doomaflatchi]

Again - please take Sanctuary. If you use it in a Land Raider, your Lascannons can fire with impunity with no fear of reprisal, and if you use it on the first turn it casts a huge footprints where "any Daemon that enters play within 3" of the psyker" (and, by extension, the vehicle he's in) "whilst he is using Sanctuary is automatically destroyed." No Mishap roll, just dead. It's absolutely invaluable against daemonic opponents.

 

Good luck to you on your second round!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Here is what I would use against a Daemon list at 1,750 points;

 

HQ:

 

Grandmaster, daemonhammer, NFW, 'Destroy Daemon', Grimoire, Incense, bionics

GKT w/incinerator, 2 x GKT's w/TH+SS

(373 points)

 

Elite:

 

Inquisitor w/Sanctuary, 2 x Mystics

(47 points)

 

Troops:

 

(3) Justicar, 7 x PAGK, 2 x psycannons

(275 points each)

 

Heavy Support:

 

Landraider

(250 points)

 

Landraider Crusader

(255 points)

 

Total: 1,750 points

 

Stick the GM+friends into the Crusader, and stick the Inquisitor into the normal Landraider.

[Grand Master Iapetus]

You didn't do all that badly - consider the number of MCs and a couple of unlucky dice rolls going his way vs. yours and you might have a different outcome. Several things to consider:

 

- Take an Inquisitor Lord w/ Scourging, Psychic Hood, Auspex and a Psycannon. Retinue of 2 sages (=BS5 with one reroll to hit per turn), 1 mystic (Free shot against EVERY deep strking unit, and infiltrators with the auspex), 2 HB Gun Servitors, 1 Plasma Cannon Servitor. Plant him in some terrain, watch daemons howl in pain. Even if he doesn't kill them, imagine taking one wound off every monstrous creature before they can do anything.

- With 5e, charging daemons is generally a bad idea (with some caveats which I will explain in my next point). Daemons charging your GKs are forced to roll as if they moved through difficult terrain. IE: YOU STRIKE FIRST. Stand off and whittle them down (just like the way of the water warrior) - then let them charge. This is much more applicable to daemon units than MCs, but it can still work with a large enough unit.

- All that being said, I typically do NOT charge with PAGKs...mostly termis...

 

I would charge daemons in a few cases:

 

- With a GM tooled up with Sacred Incense and Grimior of True Names and a retinue. MCW doesn't hurt either...

- Out of a Land Raider Crusader - they come with the Frag Grenades your Termie's need. Going up against a high MC list the other guy should have been open to a "counts as" for your regular LRs.

- While your at it, give your LRCs some upgrades: Psycannon bolts (12 twin linked AP4 bolter shots that ignore invul saves) for sure and consider Sacred Hull (Want to charge my LandRaider Mr. Daemon Prince? Roll difficult terrain, please.)

- Don't forget our LRCs can still move 12" and shoot the Hurricanes, and POTMS lets you shoot that Multi-Melta to boot.

 

 

Other thoughts:

- Break down your terminators into two smaller squads. GM in one squad, and buy the BK in the other squad a Daemonhammer. Strikes in initiative order and if you hit him first, he strikes LAST. I also buy a Psycannon for my GM - BS5 is worth something, it's pricey, but it usually pays off.

- Consider your charge range in the open with a LR/LRC. Moves 12", Troops deploy 2" (look at the diagram on P67 of the 5e book - look at the guy holding the rocket launcher), your base is over an inch and you can charge 6". My math says almost 22 inches. Plus you are still shooting those hurricane bolters and Multi-Melta before you NFW that bugger.

- Sanctuary while your in the LR/LRC is also a great idea (forgot who first posted this)

 

Questions:

- Was he going to let your GM Force Weapon remove the DP upon a successful psychic tests?

- Were you running smoke launchers, and if so - were you forcing his ranged attacks to glancing, or ignoring the hit on 4+

 

Personally, I feel a BUNCH better about playing daemons in 5e than I did in 4e. He has to bring in his army 1/2 by 1/2, so with some luck, you are able to work the way of the water warrior and whittle him down until you can crush him like the putrid daemonic scum he is…

 

Viva Emperator

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Charred Heretic, you've made a number of common mistakes I feel the need to correct;

- Take an Inquisitor Lord w/ Scourging, Psychic Hood, Auspex and a Psycannon. Retinue of 2 sages (=BS5 with one reroll to hit per turn), 1 mystic (Free shot against EVERY deep strking unit, and infiltrators with the auspex), 2 HB Gun Servitors, 1 Plasma Cannon Servitor. Plant him in some terrain, watch daemons howl in pain. Even if he doesn't kill them, imagine taking one wound off every monstrous creature before they can do anything.

 

Couple of things. Psychic hood is totally useless, because there are no Daemon psykers, they just have 'Gifts'. Secondly, auspex is totally pointless, because there are no Daemonic Infiltrators, the whole army arrives via Deepstrike. Thirdly, why are you bringing Scourging when you already have a psycannon? You can't use both in the same turn, and psycannon > scourging.

I would always take 2 Mystics, but instead of scourging take Sanctuary, its a great power (it requires you dropping the psycannon though, because you can't shoot and use Sanctuary, cos shooting with the psyker cancels it out). You then take a few gun-servitors, or alternatively shove the Inquisitor inside a Landraider without any gun-servitors. 'Sanctuary' is then measured from the hull, as are the Mystics (4D6 from hull, and if you wanna allow another unit to shoot them, it's 12" from the hull to a friendly unit).

 

- With 5e, charging daemons is generally a bad idea (with some caveats which I will explain in my next point). Daemons charging your GKs are forced to roll as if they moved through difficult terrain. IE: YOU STRIKE FIRST. Stand off and whittle them down (just like the way of the water warrior) - then let them charge. This is much more applicable to daemon units than MCs, but it can still work with a large enough unit.

 

Very true, but Slanneshi units (Aura) and Nurgle units (Cloud) can override the I1 penalty, because they count as having frag grenades. So, Daemonettes etc can still kill your Knights before they can swing, and the Nurgle Princes (the only Nurgle-marked unit worth assaulting your Knights with) will likewise hit ahead of PAGK and GKT's. The only unit you have that can swing ahead of such units is the Grandmaster (so long as you brought Sacred Incense).

- While your at it, give your LRCs some upgrades: Psycannon bolts (12 twin linked AP4 bolter shots that ignore invul saves) for sure and consider Sacred Hull (Want to charge my LandRaider Mr. Daemon Prince? Roll difficult terrain, please.)

 

Psycannon bolts is unfortunately only for storm bolters and heavy bolters; it is not allowed for the Hurricanes. Annoying, but there you go. Sacred Hull isn't as good as 'Sanctuary', because Princes and Greater Daemons are all Monstrous Creatures anyway, they roll 3D6 and pick the highest (so they'll probably reach the LR anyway). With Sanctuary, they can't ever reach you, because the Landraider+3" outside the hull counts as impassable terrain.

 

- Break down your terminators into two smaller squads. GM in one squad, and buy the BK in the other squad a Daemonhammer. Strikes in initiative order and if you hit him first, he strikes LAST. I also buy a Psycannon for my GM - BS5 is worth something, it's pricey, but it usually pays off.

 

Daemonhammer on BC is a waste, because with his I4 Nurgle Princes and Slanneshi units will still hit ahead of you. If you want another 'tank' assault unit, take Stern+TH+SS retinue. You can pawn wounds onto the 4+ invul storm shields and the retinue, while hitting same with with Stern's I5 nemesis force weapon (Keeper of Secrets still goes ahead due to I10). He then fries the Daemon (all you need is one wound past it's defences; Keeper of Secrets only has a 4+, Nurgle Princes a 5+), or he rips a wound off while the remaining retinue bash it to death with their thunderhammers. If it manages to survive all that pain, it's stunned and can't attack until Stern+friends are finished with all their attacks, which should see them finally kill it before it can swing again.

 

So, for a HQ tag-team, here's what I recommend;

 

Grandmaster, daemonhammer, NFW, 'Destroy Daemon', Sacred Incense

GKT w/incinerator, 2 x GKT's w/TH+SS

(363 points)

 

Stern, his gear

GKT w/incinerator, 3 x GKT's w/TH+SS

(340 points)

[Deadshane]

All this talk about "Sanctuary" however....

 

I prefer to actually PLAY the game, not have it handed to me on a silver platter. That's what would happen assuming I was allowed to ignore the greater daemons.

 

...besides the fact you probably wouldnt take "Sanctuary" in a take all comers list.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

All this talk about "Sanctuary" however....

 

I prefer to actually PLAY the game, not have it handed to me on a silver platter. That's what would happen assuming I was allowed to ignore the greater daemons.

 

...besides the fact you probably wouldnt take "Sanctuary" in a take all comers list.

 

Hey, if the Daemon player brings 3 x Nurgle Princes and 2 x Greater Daemons at less than 2,000, 'Sanctuary' is kinda deserving ;) . Also, it's not entirely foolproof; Elite Inquisitor only has Ld9 and can always roll Perils (although thankfully it only auto-wounds, its not S6 instant-death). Plus, if you ever catch the Inquisitor outside a Landraider, he's dead meat (2 x T3 wounds should be a piece of cake to chew through, the Mystics don't add much survivability to him either). And if you are carting the Inquisitor around in the Landraider, you can't transport anything else inside (because he can't attach to units if he takes a pair of Mystics). Mystics are a given, so your PAGK and GM+retinue are probably foot-slogging.

 

And yeah, like a lot of DH wargear/powers/rules, it's completely useless against mundane armies (totally useless against 90% of the CSM army list as well, although blocking off Lash Prince shenanigans and Greater Daemon/Lesser Daemon assaults is useful).

 

Just talk things over with your Daemonic opponent beforehand. If they wanna power-game against DH's, bring 'Sanctuary'. If they have a themed list and a plan that doesn't involve steam-rollering your entire army with 5 models, don't bring 'Sanctuary'. Still bring Mystics though ^_^

[Aidoneus]

Brother Captain w/Psycannon, Word of the Emperor (fearless only grants immunity to moral and pinning, not leadership), Sacred incense

Word of the Emperor is just not a very good power, since most units out there have very good leadership values. I wouldn't even bother taking it. Sacred Incense is only good against Chaos, not Daemons. Go Grimoire instead, or just drop it.

 

(7)Terminators-Psycannon, 2xTH/SS,Holocaust, Brother captain with Psycannon

7 Terminators is extreme, especially all in one squad. It's too much of a waste out of combat, and needing to get into combat is too Fire-y for my tastes. If you want combat, drop the psycannons and add one incinerator. If you want Water, drop it to make 5 GKTs. Either way, Holocaust is way too risky on the squad. You have a perfectly good Brother Captain there, why not just give it to him personally? Or, better yet, drop it entirely. You have more than enough attacks to win combat every round; there's no need to pay that many points for a few extra wounds (including on your own models sometimes). Also, and this is more a preference thing, why take expensive GKTs when you could take nearly twice as many Scoring PAGKs?

 

(6)PAGK, Justicar w/Frag, psycannon bolts, Targetter

(6)PAGK, Justicar w/Frag, psycannon bolts, Targetter

(6)PAGK, Justicar w/Frag, psycannon bolts, Targetter

Don't know why you need the targeters, but otherwise not bad. I prefer PAGKs in squads of 8, as they generally need the added survivability and few more attacks shooting and in CC. Fun as 666 is, 888 is just plain more effective.

 

Land raider with Dozerblade

Land raider with Dozerblade

Land raider

In an all-comers list, these aren't bad. I'd like to see Extra Armour instead of Dozer Blades any day, but take both if you can. Also, you might consider one Crusader. I've found one Crusader with two Godhammers is a good mix, and gives you more anti-infantry firepower, which can really come in handy when you're trying to hide your PAGKs inside.

 

 

If you want to tailor your list to fight daemons, I'd take three Crusaders, and load each up with 10 PAGKs (carting 2 Incinerators and psy-bolts each) and an Inquisitor with Sanctuary. You can zoom right up to deep-striked daemons and blast them with boatloads of shots. Against anything without an armour save, you should kill them off in shooting. Against monstrous creatures, you should at least wound 'em a lot, and hopefully finish them through sheer weight of numbers in assault. Second turn, depending on what's happening, you can either stay on foot on or pop sanctuary and fall back into your protective raider-bubbles. That leaves you free to embark and, on your third turn, burst forth again with more flame-y goodness. All you have to do is hold one objective and contest the other (which can even mean just making sure he doesn't have Troops there; it doesn't mean you actually need a unit there to contest), so just focus on killing whatever comes down near one objective first, at which point you'll at worst tie him, and then move all but one scoring unit on to the second objective.

 

But then again, that's if you want to tailor you list to fight his. I understand if you don't. All the advice I gave before that last paragraph, however, applies generally.

 

Hope that helps. Best of luck in your game tomorrow!

[iamnothere]

I think GKT are a personal preferance, I love 'em. So tend to take a full squad and try to keep them to one flank with 2 psycannons. They always do well but might be better employed elsewhere.

 

Also it's sad to see that lone BC without any friends.

 

I think you'd be better putting the psycannon bolts on the Landraiders rather than the Justicars, the new machine spirit will ensure they're put to better use.

[Gentlemanloser]

The only unit you have that can swing ahead of such units is the Grandmaster (so long as you brought Sacred Incense).

 

And belive me, the first time you ID someone with a GKGM, you'll never get itinto CC with big dameons again. The GKGM will be the target of 'letters and Flamers above all else, while the MCs use thier greater manueverability to stay well away.

 

Sacred Incense is only good against Chaos, not Daemons

 

Daemons are Chaos. ;)

 

Hey, if the Daemon player brings 3 x Nurgle Princes and 2 x Greater Daemons <snip>, 'Sanctuary' is kinda deserving

 

Agreed.

 

It's hard enough to fight the Daemon army with it's only (lol) thinks like Heralds, 'letters, Flamers and 'nettes.

 

I'd never advise getting within Template or CC range of them. Your best bet to to stay as close to 24"/18" away from them, and pepper them with as many shots as you can. Even if you whittle a 20 man 'letter squad down to 3/4, they will utterly kill your whole squad in CC.

 

The only chance to really win is to obliterate what comes down first turn, taking out *everything*, hoping to get the Icon bearers. While retreating away from the DS. And hope your opponent gets very bad second turn reserves rolls to allow you to mop up anything left.

 

If second turn comes and he's still got Icon bearers close to your troops, and he gets a nice reserve roll, it's really all over. There will be too many high priority targets to annihalte, as any getting to your lines is game over.

 

The CC will either destroy you, or tie you up making you unable to kill the Icons on the table, which just allows more and more to be brought down around you, in positions in his favour.

 

Edit: The Dameon army will usually ignore Objects, and just go to annihalate thier opponents.

[ferrous]

Daemons

 

Two or three inquisitors with mystics inside land raiders will make for a better game than taking sanctuary.

 

Incense works against Chaos, and the name of the daemon codex is Chaos Daemons, therefore it works just fine IMHO.

 

Or out side landraiders, but sitting in cover, either with a bunch of heavy bolter servitors, or two mystics next to a purgatation squad. (or mini purge squad), or a GKT team with a bunch of psycannons, you get the idea.

 

You also seem to be forgetting that if a Daemon player charges you, he's taking a difficult terrain test, and going at I1, so even a brocap with a daemonhammer will smack them princes in the face first. So shoot him a bunch, right up until the last minute, let him charge you, and watch him die. If you've put enough wounds on his MCs, even 6 grey knights with 2 attacks a piece at str6 might be able to put the finishing touches on it before it gets to swing.

 

 

The psycannon bolt upgrade is almost useful on a landraider as well, as its heavy bolter will then ignore invuls, letting it clean up bloodletters and flamers.

 

 

PS that Daemon list isn't that bad, the more annoying power gamey lists use massive amounts of blood crushers.

 

 

 

If you really want to crush him, you could go Space Marine base, with a librarian null zone amongst a bunch of GKTs.

 

 

 

And i have ot agree that the best GKGM is one with destroy daemon and a hammer and incense. (a grimoire can be handy too, especially against the mobs, with Letters getting reduced to WS 2)

[Gentlemanloser]

You also seem to be forgetting that if a Daemon player charges you, he's taking a difficult terrain test, and going at I1, so even a brocap with a daemonhammer will smack them princes in the face first.

 

DP of Nurgle (at least, and I think Daemonettes) count as having Grenades.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

And belive me, the first time you ID someone with a GKGM, you'll never get itinto CC with big dameons again. The GKGM will be the target of 'letters and Flamers above all else, while the MCs use thier greater manueverability to stay well away.

 

True :) ah, the Grandmaster is such a party-pooper eh? 'You kids and you're 'Noxious Touch' and I5, come 'ere a sec' *slap* Well, thats why you have the Crusader to ferry him around for I guess. And those extra friendly PAGK with dual psycannons legging it along behind you, blasting said Bloodletters and Flamers to hell as they appear (cos of Inquisitor w/Mystics legging it behind them).

 

Oh, and if he starts running away with his big monsters, it's fair game to start heckling. 'Yeah, Bloodthirster my foot! He runs like a girl!' :P

The CC will either destroy you, or tie you up making you unable to kill the Icons on the table, which just allows more and more to be brought down around you, in positions in his favour.

 

I dunno, I depends. Certainly, you should avoid getting into close-combat, but against things like mauled Bloodletter packs (I'm thinking 6 models or less), you go first with a big pile of S6 NFW to the face. The 1-2 survivors hack down 2-3 Knights, but they then die to combat res. You consolidate your bloodied squad, and prepare for another round of Mystic-guided shooting.

 

Two or three inquisitors with mystics inside land raiders will make for a better game than taking sanctuary.

 

True, and as I already said, 'Sanctuary' should only be brought out if your opponent is a real tool (ie the 5 x MC lists). In a friendly game, or against a themed list, it's too broken. Mind you, you'll still get dirty looks for using Mystics+Landraiders ;)

You also seem to be forgetting that if a Daemon player charges you, he's taking a difficult terrain test, and going at I1, so even a brocap with a daemonhammer will smack them princes in the face first. So shoot him a bunch, right up until the last minute, let him charge you, and watch him die. If you've put enough wounds on his MCs, even 6 grey knights with 2 attacks a piece at str6 might be able to put the finishing touches on it before it gets to swing.

 

Generally speaking, 'Rites of Exorcism' does work, but models with the 'Aura of Aquiesence' or 'Cloud of Flies' Daemonic Gifts count as having frag grenades, and thus override 'Rites'. Thats what makes the 3 x Nurgle Prince lists so maddeningly broken; they gain pretty much every advantage of the GUO (except FNP), but still are an WS7/I5 MC with a 3+ armour save. We at least get Mystic-guided shooting into them, plus uniform S6 across the army, wargear to slap him down (on GM) and 'Sanctuary' if all else fails. Other armies are going to just cry when Nurgle Princes hit their lines.

 

As Gentlemanloser said, just err on the side of caution and shoot them to death. Close-combat should only be fought on your terms and only when victory is almost assured (ie tooled-up Grandmaster going to town, or a nearly-dead Bloodletter pack finally charging a full-strength PAGK squad).

The psycannon bolt upgrade is almost useful on a landraider as well, as its heavy bolter will then ignore invuls, letting it clean up bloodletters and flamers.

 

Landraider should be shooting the MC's with it's God-hammers, not wasting it's anti-tank ability on the Lesser Daemons. Leave the infantry stuff to the PAGK with dual psycannons.

 

PS that Daemon list isn't that bad, the more annoying power gamey lists use massive amounts of blood crushers.

 

Thats actually easier to counter, because Bloodcrushers are much like any 2-wound monster unit; they die to ordnance quite easily. Bring in a pair of Armoured Fist squads, then buy a Leman Russ in Heavy Support. Their T5 means nothing, and their 3+ armour is ignored. Then you just keeping shelling them until they all die. They're as expensive as Terminators, so they can't be readily spammed. Nurgle Princes laugh at battle cannon, and keep on coming to rip said battle tank apart.

 

If you really want to crush him, you could go Space Marine base, with a librarian null zone amongst a bunch of GKTs.

 

I already have a themed 'Exorcists' army list in the works, while does exactly that. Null Zone+rapid-firing Hellfire from Sternguard = lots of dead Daemons ;) .

And i have ot agree that the best GKGM is one with destroy daemon and a hammer and incense. (a grimoire can be handy too, especially against the mobs, with Letters getting reduced to WS 2)

 

Yeah, Grimoire is always going to be a good option. It almost always means he hits on 3+, while enemy Daemons hit on 4+ or 5+, the only exception being the Bloodthirster (they both hit eachother on 4+). Against Skarbrand (same deal as BT), I don't even need to turn on 'Destroy Daemon', because he already grants re-rolls to hit and wound. :P

[Deadshane]

Same scenario, but spearhead deployment. His objective is out of line of site within some ruins to my far left 6" from his table edge. In order to spread his forces out without being able to support each other I place mine on the totally opposite end of the board on top of a small hill. (so I can remain within contact of it and still fire all weapons to full effect.

 

I force him to go first.

 

My army

 

HQ

 

Brother captain with psycannon, Sacred Incense

 

ELITE

 

(7)Terminators-psycannon, 2xTH/SS, BC w/psycannon

 

TROOPS

 

(6)PAGK-Justicar w/targetter, psycannon bolts, Holy Relic

(6)PAGK-Justicar w/targetter, psycannon bolts

(6)PAGK-Justicar w/targetter, psycannon bolts

 

HEAVY

 

Land raider w/dozer

Land raider w/dozer

Land raider

 

=1850

 

His Army

 

HQ

 

Scarbrand

Bloodthirster

 

TROOPS

 

between 8-10-Bloodletters

between 8-10-Bloodetters

7-plaguebearers

7-plaguebearers

6-plaguebearers

 

HEAVY

 

Nurgle Daemon Prince with wings (all toys)

Nurgle Daemon Prince with Wings (all toys)

Nurgle Daemon Prince with wings (all toys)

 

 

My Deployment.

 

I hug my table edge on the right side of the board nice and close to my objective. I realise that I'm going to be hard pressed in order to reach his objective, but I know how he's going to deploy and I need to get thru his initial assault first.

 

TURN 1

 

He gets his monstrous creature half, again as planned. Scarbrand drops on other side of a dense ruins...runs inside ruins, i cannot see him. 3 Daemon princes all drop between 20-15 inches away from my army. Bloodthirster drops and deviates into impassible terrain with a bad scatter roll. Resulting in me being able to place him wherever I want him. I deploy him clear across the board some 4-1/2-5 feet away from my forces.

 

My movement, I make minor adjustments to my forces so that I wont be able to be charged by all 3 daemon princes in case my shooting goes bad. (which it rather does) My entire army including LR's that do not move fire on the nearest daemon prince....it drops.

 

TURN 2

 

He gets in a unit of plaguebearers and two units of Bloodletters. One bloodletter unit lands within 8" or so of my forces ready to charge whatever they like if I let them live....he moves DP's up to try to pressure me...Bloodthirster flys and runs to try and get into the fight. Scarbrand leisurely move outside of the ruins to see what happens before he commits himself. The second bloodletter unit deviates smack into the middle of the first one that landed....they go back into reserves as a result. No shooting, his charge see's 1 daemonprince about 3MM within charge range (DRAT!) DP charges the terminators...who consolidate into close combat. Everyone strikes simultaneous thanx to the incense. DP decides to put all attacks on the Brother Captain Hero (I think that he thought he was a badass or something)...he, um....dies. ;) with all the attacks from 8 terminators on him with Scarbrand within range causing RR's...the prince DIES horribly under the righteous blades of the terminators. (this is where I'm happy that I kept those terminators, Aidoneous. I think that 5e is a game of accesses and EXTREMES. Look at the bikernob lists out there. 5e seems to actually reward going nuts with some units. Not that what you suggested was wrong by any means, but these sort of units seem to have a place now) My terminators consolidate 6" and maintain good feild position out of the way of my landraider that is about to move.

 

I have to start moving a LR and troops to try and contest his objective toward the end of the game. It's clear on the opposite end of the table and the only way I'll contest it is for the game to go 7 turns and still have the LR survive. (not really that tall of an order if I can stay away from the slow scarbrand and wax the Bloodthirster with lascannons....anyway.

 

LR tank shocks thru the bloodletters causing them to move closer to my forces. A unit of grey knights moves toward the bloodletters in order to shoot and still board the LR on my next turn. The other two landraider draw a bead on the remaining DP. I blast the last DP off the board with 5 lascannon shots and some heavy bolter fire from the LR's. I soften the Bloodletters up with stormbolter and psycannon fire from all my troops on foot (I think there were 10 now, come to think of it) They survived due to the cover saves that my forward unit of PAGK were giving them from the rest of my forces. Terminators charge the surviving two and decimate them.

 

TURN 3

 

His bloodletters finallly arrive dropping dead in the middle of the board with some Hill/ruins type of cover between them and my shooting. Another unit of Plaguebearers arrives....again, close to HIS objective. (I figure he's given up on the win at this point and is trying to simply force the tie.) Bloodthirster moves closer (fly/run) in the general direction of my LR that is going for the win. Scarbrand ducks behind the dense ruins out of line of site but without threatening any of my forces. nothing is anywhere near charge range.

 

My threatening LR moves 12" forward. All my troops board their respective LR's since nothing is within range of SB fire. LR's move for good shots (at a full 4' away almost) on the bloodthirster. Terminators move forward to get Psycannon shots at Scarbrand (bloodthirster is just out of range) just around the building he's hiding behind. No wounds on Scarbrand, but three wounds on the bloodthirster after 5 hits. This was awesome. If I can kill the Bloodthirster, I can win the game. His troops cannot harm my raiders and all I have to do is drive it around to the objective. Sure I need a 7 turn game, but whatever.

 

TURN 4

 

Bloodthirster fly's and runs backwards right close to his objective. My opponent doesnt want to lose him apparently. Scarbrand Heads toward my threatening land raider, fleeting 6", uh-oh, this may be a problem.

 

My Threatening LR move forward 12" undaunted. I cannot escape Scarbrands charge if I want to reach an objective. Hopefully I can shoot him off of the board...but I doubt it. My other units arent quite close enough to support. I could move 6" forward and deploy, but the SB's will likely not be within range anyway. LR's unleash hell on Scarbrand with even the fast moving one lending a Lascannon. Scarbrand takes only two wounds.

 

TURN 5

 

He's got to stop me. He moves his Bloodletters toward my landraider in an attempt to block my exit hatches. Scarbrand runs up to charge my LR, not even caring about the difficult terrain. Bloodthirster fly's over the terrain between him and my LR as a precaution for the next turn. Last unit of Plaguebearers land closeby to help out. (two units of Plaguebearers still around his objective.) Scarbrand charges, gets two hits, one of which bounces off of my armour, I hold my breath for the last hit...pen...6...DURNIT! My Knights deploy with no casualties inside the crater laughing at the bloodletters that tried to block the hatches.

 

Ive been stuffed regardless....the game is a tie, time to blast some daemons for fun!

 

deploy my troops and scoot forward with the LR's. One unit of grey knights strings out to control my objective but still shoot at bloodletters. the other moves forward, terminators move forward. 3 units of PAGK burn up all of the bloodletters. One LR aces the bloodthirster, the other landraider puts 1 wound on Scarbrand...who gets finished off by the Terminators firepower.

 

I roll a 1 to finish the game....just as well, its a tie anyway.

 

GREAT RESULTS however.

 

If this had been a GT game. It would've been a draw with me having an advantage in victory points. (a VERY minor win) Kill points were 7 to 2 in my favor. This is the tiebreaker for this sort of mission at the GT's.

 

Heck of an improvement over the first game. This just goes to show what happens when you play a water list the way its meant to be played. I only allowed him a single charge on my troopers the entire game. Scarbrand managed one after some good movement, but it was against a unit that I had to risk in order to win the game. 5-1/2 to 6 feet is a long way for our guys to move. :D Seperating the objectives really gave me what I needed in order to play on my terms however...seperating his forces somewhat in order to take him on peicemeal. He was fighting my entire army the whole game when there was always something behind with his.

 

Anyways. I'll remember this next time I want to mess with my tournement list. This result was great when you consider the 5 MC's. All damage was done with shooting. Results were also with PURE grey knights. No mystic, and I have to point out....

 

....No Sanctuary! :( ( I may try to fit an Inquisitor with some mystics in however. ;) )

[Gentlemanloser]

Brilliant! <_<

 

Edit: For the second 'letter squad that deviated, didn't he have an Icon to DS them off of?

 

Edit2: With one Troop already by his objective, I'd have though it best in Turn 5 to DS the last PB squad near your Objective to Run in the Shooting phase to try to contest it.

[Deadshane]

Nope, no Icons.

 

He could've, but he was concentrating more on defending his own objective for the tie. All those units that I burned up on the final turn of the game could've fired at plaguebearers on MY objective if they'd wanted to. It would've been a TOTAL waste. Terminators, two units of grey knights, and two landraiders...and the troops could've charged into HtH. They would've died easily....and if the game would've gone on, where they landed was a better spot to clobber (or simply hold up) the grey knights that were in the threatening LR. They were able to charge on turn 6 (if there would've been one) even though I blasted two MC's and a unit of bloodletters off of the board. He didnt make a terrible choice.

[iamnothere]

Excellent report, glad to see you come back strong from your first defeat. Even better that you did it against a strong list.

 

It was really good that you concentrated your fire and selected your targets with care.

[Gentlemanloser]

Tell him to use Icons. :)

 

That's what dropping the Princes is for first turn. To weather the storm of incoming fire, and run into better position, to allow you to DS whatever else comes in, exactly where you want them to be. (And to keep the newly DSed troops safer from Return Fire by Engaging what can shoot at them in CC with the DP)

 

Not having Icons means you either have to risk dangerous DS (which can be disasterous!), or Ds safely, which usually means not in a threatening position.

[Tauren]

Is it just me or does running troops even closer to the inquisitor with mystics seem like a stupid idea in regards to daemon being summoned in?...? Suddenly your perfectly placed unit is now catching a plasma cannon template or worse an entire squad of gun-fire from knights with psycannons.

[Captain Malachi]

Well, you got to get them there at some point, or else there's no point in having them.

[Gentlemanloser]

Well, you got to get them there at some point, or else there's no point in having them.

 

Yo.

 

Mystic's will always be a problem for DS, if your opponent has them. Which this list doesn't. If you DS away because of the threat of Mystics, you suffer more damage from having to take turns running towards your opponent. It's usually better to take the Mystic attack and be in place for a next turn charge.

 

As for being shot, that's what the original units you Icon off of are for. To tie up the shooting squads while your fresh troops stand there after DS.

[Tauren]

Ya, daemons are really at a disadvantage. Almost makes orbital strikes worth it in some cases because you can deploy in a corner and know exactly where to plant the orbital strike with your plans for deployment. Certain missions he has to come to you...