WolfLordLars Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 So, we are going to be doing local tournaments soon, 1500pts and two lists allowed (the theory being that two lists means that you dont have to have an 'uber-cheese kill all' list just to play, you can try things). I wanted to run a special character in one of my lists. I have never done this before, considering them all too expensive to be worthwhile. So, whats your thought on our special characters? Logan - He is the most expensive. WS6 is nice, but otherwise looks just like an overpriced Wolf Lord. His axe has options, being a legendary leader is nice... but for the cost? I have a WONDERFULLY painted miniature of him as well, which is why thats so disappointing. Ragnar - He is the least expensive. Also a WS6, but Berserk Charge and Dodge make him worth looking at, in spite of the price. Actually, I think he is fairly close to the cost of a kitted out Wolf Lord, overall. That berserk charge with a unit of wolf guards seems like it would make for a great shock unit to break through lines. Of the three, he is probably the one I will go with. Ulrik - Less than Logan, but slightly more than Ragnar. Given that some wargear he carries is useless, and he really doesnt bring any great special rules in (Mentor is nice.. but not compelling) he is another one that just doesnt seem like its worth the points for a regular game. Am I missing anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Well considering Ulrik is useless in all respects, and Logan has to be 2000+ (unless tournament has other rules?), Ragnar is definitely the one to go with. Not to mention he's the best for what he does... set him up with some grey hunters in a pod with 2-4 fenrisian wolves at his side (depending on how much room you have, maybe just get a land raider... :wub: ) and watch them go. 150-200 points (Ragnar isn't one of those points, rather in between), isn't asking much for an HQ, most of the special characters in the new C:SM is 193 points, considering most of those WISH they could be Ragnar, I say he's well worth the points. It's also worth noting that my one Farseer isn't even a named and he's pushing 200 points... :huh: T3 sucks... If you really want to go ballsy, you can spend half your 1500 points on Ragnar+ retinue in a Land Raider... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share Posted December 17, 2008 That IS tempting. A LRC if nothing else (+GH + Wolves) but probably not. I have a month to work out a list, so I will let you take a look at it later. I think Ragnar is the most solid character we have for the points allowed. I hope they bring back Bjorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiplash Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 ragnar is the best value for points but although logan is expensive he is devastating my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share Posted December 17, 2008 ragnar is the best value for pointsbut although logan is expensive he is devastating my two cents How so? How did you use him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 a guy up here played a big game against chaos, in which logan and 5 WG in TDA crashed through the heavens (they used a drop pod) and crushed nearly half the chaos army. i didn't see it, but heard much about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 My Ragnar was charged this weekend by a 5 man squad of Blood Angels. None lived to tell the tale after one round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 I had Lord Ragnar with a 8 man pack of GH...2 squads of Dark Eldar foolishly charged the pack....lets just say not a single Eldar survived to tell the others of their folly. Completely wiped one squad out with wounds...took the other with 2 dead and ran down the rest. Plus the pack easily knocked out the skimmer which took out a couple Eldar before they attacked. =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 So, we are going to be doing local tournaments soon, 1500pts and two lists allowed (the theory being that two lists means that you dont have to have an 'uber-cheese kill all' list just to play, you can try things and in real life it will end up with people having 2 lists tailored to counter certein tournament builds . not to mention stuff like "friendlly armies". as SW specials go . unless the tournament says its ok to play with them , you may get a veto from a player ,because of teh rules the SW specials have . ulrik is not worth the pts , he wasnt worth it even with his gear still working . same with logan . if something costs as much as an land raider it better change the game a lot , other wise its not point efficient . rangar is ok , but again someone has to allow to play with him [again unless the tournament orgs say otherwise] . better then a wolf lord , but I dont think that a lot of SW builds do use lords , more about lots of cheap HQ to lead the BC and GH . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiplash Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 ragnar is the best value for pointsbut although logan is expensive he is devastating my two cents How so? How did you use him? a guy up here played a big game against chaos, in which logan and 5 WG in TDA crashed through the heavens (they used a drop pod) and crushed nearly half the chaos army. i didn't see it, but heard much about it. thats how ^_^ pretty much exactly that the advantage of Termie WG is that they dont have to be ranged or close combat orientated THEY CAN BE BOTH!!! hopefully they dont take this away from us when they update the codex :( so 4+ WG with lots hvy weps/stormbolters and ccw/storm sheilds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 I think the thing is alot of our power lies with the troops and not always with the HQs. We are the SM CQB powerhouses and our troops are given the option to take equipment to suppliment that line of combat to perfection. Look at a 'nilla SM troop and a SW troop then look at a 'nilla SM HQ and a SW HQ. Especially now the focus is back on the troops (with 2/3 of game types being Objectives) we have a good edge troops-wise, our HQs are nothing to laugh at either, but our Special Characters are, I think, out of proportion compaired to SM SCs...especially given how we only have 3 and they can only be used at certain point levels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share Posted December 17, 2008 So, we are going to be doing local tournaments soon, 1500pts and two lists allowed (the theory being that two lists means that you dont have to have an 'uber-cheese kill all' list just to play, you can try things and in real life it will end up with people having 2 lists tailored to counter certein tournament builds . not to mention stuff like "friendlly armies". Always the optimist... Yes, one anti-horde, one anti-tank, or whatever. Warmachine tournaments that used two lists went well, so we wanted to try it for 40k. as SW specials go . unless the tournament says its ok to play with them , you may get a veto from a player ,because of teh rules the SW specials have . ulrik is not worth the pts , he wasnt worth it even with his gear still working . same with logan . if something costs as much as an land raider it better change the game a lot , other wise its not point efficient . rangar is ok , but again someone has to allow to play with him [again unless the tournament orgs say otherwise] . better then a wolf lord , but I dont think that a lot of SW builds do use lords , more about lots of cheap HQ to lead the BC and GH . Where is that in the rules? I was under the impression that unless noted otherwise, ALL special characters were allowed. If its in your codex you can use it unless stated otherwise. You need special permission to use stuff from Forgeworld or such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Where is that in the rules? It says in the description for each of our SCs that they may only be used in games where all players have agreed beforehand that they are allowed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 So we can disallow the Nightbringer and Calgar and Dante and Abbadon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 No, because SW and DE are the only Codeci that have that little rule in for their SC- everyone else has Somewhat-Generic-Named-and-Already Made HQ choices TM . One of the few drawbacks of the SW Codex- having to have Opponent's permission to use our Special Characters. :D Edit: Actually, I dunno about the Nightbringer, as I don't know his rules. Someone with a CronDex willing to explain him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 NO... calgar and dante are new, but the Nightbringer is a special characterw ho has the opponents permission rule. Only the late end 4rth ed codices and 5th ed codices have the "you can always take this guy" rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Well personally I say that if any Special Characters are allowed in a specific game, 5th ed SCs or 2nd ed SCs, ALL SCs should be allowed. But that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I would like to meet the person who would RAW that rule and deny their oppenent the ability to play him. Even in a GT this would be pretty low. WG Vrox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Well I could see it happening but only if the opponent does not have any SCs as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Sorry muzzy, no way in hell Id play a guy who threw down a 2nd edition army against me at equal points. Have you ever tried to punch threw AV 22? Let me tell you, you wont do it anymore. How about a chaos psychic power that makes you dance in a circle for a turn or two and then causes all of the models that were doing so to explode and be replaced by demons? Ever fought a Phoenix lord? What if he had a profile like this: M:11/WS7/BS7/S7/T7/W/3/I10/A3/LD10. Who is immune to any form of psychology and never takes a break test... but doesnt have the fearless drawbacks. Can reroll their armor save, gets two extra attacks every time you roll a 1. How about a shooting attack that you get to roll to hit and then as long as theres an unhit model within 2" you get to shoot again? Who doesnt allow you any attacks when they charge, and the same on a 4+ the turn after? Who gets 4 Str 7 Power weapon attacks a turn and rolls an additional D12 for AP? With Hit and run? And Jain Zar there was one of the more sedate Special Characters of 2nd edition. As for the older characters... I agree with the rule. Some of them are immensly powerful, more than their points values would indicate. Anyone whos played the nightbringer knows that even at a near 400pts hes more than worth it and nearly unstoppable.... unless you know hes there and do some kitting to do it. *like a squad of sniper scouts*. Generally though I play it that if you bring it, Ill kill it. I should now amend that.... to if you bring it from 3rd ed on Ill kill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 LOL That was just a figure of speech there Mage....it doesn't matter what edition of the rules or codex....it's just common sense and general fairness that if one person can't use any Special Characters then neither should (or in the case of a tourney...no one). I played the Nightbringer last weekend in a 3v3 1000pt/per army game....we threw almost everything at it and only knocked out 4 of 5 wounds. In any case, Special Characters are in there for a reason....the rule shouldn't be "Space Wolves can't use their SCs unless allowed...." but rather "Use of SCs should be agreed upon by both players (or Tourney Organizer)." I haven't got to play with the Great Wolf but from what I hear he is expensive but worth it for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I played the Nightbringer last weekend in a 3v3 1000pt/per army game....we threw almost everything at it and only knocked out 4 of 5 wounds. In any case, Special Characters are in there for a reason....the rule shouldn't be "Space Wolves can't use their SCs unless allowed...." but rather "Use of SCs should be agreed upon by both players (or Tourney Organizer)." I'd laugh if he had a Nightbringer at 1000 points, because he'll be phased out by turn 3. :P As for discussing 2nd edition, I believe the blood thirster is the winner with WS 10 and 8 wounds was it? ;) Or how about Abbadons' roll a D20, then a D12, then 2 D6 and etc.... Omar, if you really want a hard hitting 1500 list... just put together your 750 list, and my 750 list... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 Ugh... I dont have that many vindicators.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Ugh... I dont have that many vindicators.... Then why not just 2 of your lists... I'm pretty sure you have that many assault cannons laying around... it won't be as effective as if you had my list in there, but it's sure to be fun as all hell. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 Heh... heh heh... Heh heh.... *snort* heh... heh heh heh... heh.... Yea, not so much. As amusing as it would be, and as fun as it would be to see the face on some of my opponents, the idea of the tournament is less of taking 'broken' lists and more of having fun. I will do one broken list that probably wont win against a balanced army, and one balanced list. Might even give my opponent the option of which one I play. :) Will post lists later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.