Jones Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Just found about a local tournament tomorrow. Rules: This is an all out, hit 'em where it hurts, fight to the finish. No objectives to fight over - just ALL OUT WAR! Special Rules: Deep Strike Infiltrate Kill Points The total number of kill point at the end of three rounds is the winner. The only way to get kill points is to completely remove an entire unit from the playing field. This sounds great but what army should I play. Codex marines, Templars, Sisters or Orks. I just can't decide so many possibilites and so little time to decide. Help me guys, throw me some ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Depends on your build. Orks and Sisters can have a lot of power and models packed in a few units (although ldefinitely lesser and paying more points for it in the latter case). by having large squads. For example... HQ: 249 Pts Canoness W/Retinue --Book, Frag, BP+Eviscerator --9 Celestians, Frags, 2xFlamers --Veteran, BP+PW, Frags Troops: 846 Pts Battle Sisters: 282 --19 Sisters, Flamer, Heavy Flamer --Veteran, Book, BP+Eviscerator Battle Sisters: 282 --19 Sisters, Flamer, Heavy Flamer --Veteran, Book, BP+Eviscerator Battle Sisters: 282 --19 Sisters, Flamer, Heavy Flamer --Veteran, Book, BP+Eviscerator Heavy Support: 405 Pts Exorcist: 135 Pts Exorcist: 135 Pts Exorcist: 135 Pts That Has only seven kill points, but it has 70 models and three vehicles. Anti-tank is a problemif they strike down the exorcists though. The Exorcists will probablyb e their primary target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNsOmNiAc'S dReAm Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Thats a pretty solid list that Mellisa put out Theres only a few things I would change: - drop the eviscerators for some combi-meltas for some anti-armour insurance. - drop one exorcist for a squad of retributors with 4 hvy bolters and a vet supperior. - and give the Celestian V.S.S. an eviscerator instead of a power weapon. Shes the only VSS that can really make good use of it, hitting on 3's and what not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 The problem with removing one exorcist is that means they can more easilly focus-fire on the remaining two exorcists. These are the only three vehicles that the Sisters have in this list, making them the only three targets for lascannons or railguns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNsOmNiAc'S dReAm Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 True, but to me a squad of retributors is much more productive then an exorcist and cant be wiped out by a single " lucky " shot like a tank can. Same reason why I always took Broad Sides over Hammerheads back when I played Tau. Not saying youre wrong or anything, Im just biased against tanks =P Just some things to consider: - Retributors with a VSS adds another faith point to his army.. as is he is already lacking. - They are also guaranteed more shots and therefore more likely to do more damage, especially with divine guidence - Retributors can soak up a hell of alot more damage then an exorcist and still be productive, especially with a book of st. lucius - The exorcist doesnt even have to be destroyed to be rendered useless, one weapon destroyed result and you got yourself a rolling paperweight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJumppanen Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 That Has only seven kill points, but it has 70 models and three vehicles. Anti-tank is a problemif they strike down the exorcists though. The Exorcists will probablyb e their primary target. 8 points actualy. Retinue counts as separete point than character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jones Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 ret no not count as sep. hero and ret count as 1kp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Yep. Unlike the Marine Captain/Chapter Master, the Canoness may take retinue under the retinue USR. With the retinue, she also becomes better in close combat because she can't be singled out as an independant character. As much as anything, those Celestians are ablative wounds for the Canoness, so that she can tie up the enemy's most dangerous close combat unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Till Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I agree with Melissia in the Exorcists. Exorcists remind me of vindicators, their effectiveness is non-liner. Two is more than two times one; three is more than three times one... if that makes sense. Also, don't discount running tons of assault terminators with landraiders. Two land raider crusaders with 5 hammer/shield terminators in each is a hard to kill 900 points. The land raider itself is a great weapon against ork, nids, and both eldars. The terminators are great at everything else (ie, what the tanks arnt good at - the cans, dreads, monster creatures). Bring in two vindicators with the raiders on their flanks and nothing can get their side. That brings us to ~ 1220 Snag two troop choices with no transport and a lascannon - 340'ish. Vulkan - 190 Two heavy bolter attack bikes - 100 Thats about 1850. Would be fun to play =p. 10 victory points. You said its based on how many victory points you have at the end, not annihilation. That being said I wouldn't think fretting over victory point denial would be that big. If you take 10 points a game and give the other player 7 each game, you'll still win the overall. Also the two raiders and vidicators give you a wall blocking LOS, keep the troops/bikes behind that and most armies couldnt see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Kill points, not victory points. VPs are house-rule only, kill points are part of the standard three games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJumppanen Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Yep. Unlike the Marine Captain/Chapter Master, the Canoness may take retinue under the retinue USR. With the retinue, she also becomes better in close combat because she can't be singled out as an independant character. As much as anything, those Celestians are ablative wounds for the Canoness, so that she can tie up the enemy's most dangerous close combat unit. You need to explain that to me... I thought that Canoness is IC? How about =I= and =I=-lord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Uh, yes, she is? Lemme paraphrase the passage from the BRB: Some Codices allow you to field characters with a special squad which they cannot leave during the game. These units, normally called ‘retinues’,‘bodyguards’ etc, make the Independant Character count as an upgrade character until all members of the retinue are killed. If this happens, the character starts counting as an independent character and it will do so for the rest of the game. Then, paraphrasing the Upgrade Character rules: Upgrade Characters are effectively just another member of their unit The Canoness may take a squad of Celestians as retinue, ergo, they use these rules. However, the C:SM Honor Guard unit is NOT a retinue (at least from what has been said in the Amicus Aedes forum), and so the captain uses standard IC rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJumppanen Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 Uh, yes, she is? Lemme paraphrase the passage from the BRB: Some Codices allow you to field characters with a special squad which they cannot leave during the game. These units, normally called ‘retinues’,‘bodyguards’ etc, make the Independant Character count as an upgrade character until all members of the retinue are killed. If this happens, the character starts counting as an independent character and it will do so for the rest of the game. Then, paraphrasing the Upgrade Character rules: Upgrade Characters are effectively just another member of their unit The Canoness may take a squad of Celestians as retinue, ergo, they use these rules. However, the C:SM Honor Guard unit is NOT a retinue (at least from what has been said in the Amicus Aedes forum), and so the captain uses standard IC rules. BRB? Basic Rule Book? Same as BBB? Anyway, BBB p. 91 Annihilation: "If Character has retinue, the character and his unit are worth 1 kill point each." Passage you mention seems to be from page 48, right? Now that i read it with some thought, i would say that you are correct and Canoness and retinue are single unit (and so it would seem to be in case of =I=), but as for killpoints, i'd say that they are separate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jones Posted December 21, 2008 Author Share Posted December 21, 2008 thanks guys, i got three wins but placed 2nd. someone else scored more points. 1st game vs. Eldar win 2 - 0 2nd game vs. Tau win 3 - 2 3rd game vs. Necrons win 9 - 0 (phase out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 Well done on the good placement Jones! Care to charm us with tales of your brilliant escapades? As for the Independent Character vs. Upgrade Character debate, check out this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Till Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 thanks guys, i got three wins but placed 2nd. someone else scored more points. 1st game vs. Eldar win 2 - 0 2nd game vs. Tau win 3 - 2 3rd game vs. Necrons win 9 - 0 (phase out) What list did you end up running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jones Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 i ran templars Emp Champ atwdtw + 7/6 marines/scouts bp/ccw with melta and pf in LRC + smoke 9/6 marines/scouts bp/ccw with melta and pf in LRC + smoke 9/6 marines/scouts bp/ccw with melta and pf in LRC + smoke 2 vindicators with hunterkillers 6 kp thanks again for you input i have been trying to run a different army each time, switching between sisters, templars, c. fist, and sometimes orks you have keep your friends guessing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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