The History and Legacy of Dorn's Betrayal

[lokkorex]

Coryphaus 101: how's the badab wars coming together? no pressure, but it is such an awesome concept that i can't wait to read the whole alternate version.

[Coryphaus 101]

It's not at the moment. I'm waiting for all the information before I write about this (awesome) alternate universe.

[Culebras]

BTW, after seeing the nightlords, I am definetly seeing some parallels between them and the Carcharodons

[Sevatar]

Ha! Love it! Raven Guard get done over twice at Istavaan! Poor Corax :lol:

Sevatar

[Snickers]

Aurelius, I have a question. Are The Outcast Dead going to make a appearance? If not I would like to volunteer to write a little colourpiece about them.

[Aurelius Rex]

Aurelius, I have a question. Are The Outcast Dead going to make a appearance? If not I would like to volunteer to write a little colourpiece about them.

Not got that book yet, but I suspect that it might be appearing under the tree for the morning of the 25th. :P

 

@Culebras - The Carcharodons are covered in the second Imperial Armour book about the Badab War, right? I have only got the first one. Hmmmm, it seems I really need to catch up on my reading! ^_^ Could you pm me with how they are similar, so as not to derail the thread?

[modernangelofdeath]

so Aurelius, who is next, and when can we expect them?

[Culebras]

so Aurelius, who is next, and when can we expect them?

 

Next should be Salamanders, if memory serves. And then that leaves Death guard, Black Templar, and Black Legion for the PDF. If memory serves.

 

Salamanders are described as being scarred and connected to something called Malal. Also, they like to burn things. Yay Fire.

 

Death Guard have some sort of conflict with the Eldar, but we don't know much more than that

 

Black Legion: how did Dorn fall to chaos? I'm going to bet there are a couple details that we won't have seen coming.

 

Black Templar: Once wolves, then sons, and now Templars. I'm hoping that the Templars give us not only a peak into the past but also into the present. How many crusade you think the Black Templars led into the Eye of Terror only to be repulsed each time?

[Leofric]

@Aurelius (And Ferrata) - Awesome stuff, really enjoying the project and can't wait for the remainder of the articles

 

Now a question (may have been touched upon in last 33 pages but don't think so), appreciate answers from anyone :)

 

What would be the weapon(s) load out for the Arch-traitor Dorn be(say in an equivalent art piece to the Emperor Vs Horus versions 1 and 2)? I don't think its intimated at all in the account so far..other than using a banner pole to try and destroy his pain glove.

 

Reason I would like to know is that I'm trying to make a model based on the awesome renditon by Diego Gisbert in the Legio Imprint, which unfortunately gives no clue as to what his beatsticks of choice might actually be, other than one of them has a handle!

 

Now working from the Norm-40kverse art we have John Blanches version of Dorn which suggests a bolter and chainfist/sword, plus the 'Fist of Dorn' hammer carried by Lysander and 'Dorns Arrow' stormbolter by Kantor in the game, but the Dornian Heresy verion of the Primarch may not have used any of these

 

Now personally I like the idea of Thunder-hammer and Chainfist as a combo (I have no real plans to use the model for gaming) as a comparison to the 'Modern' Horus's armament of lightening Claw and Power Mace but could probably be easily persuaded towards another option (Black Sword? Soul Spear? ;) )

 

Also would any of these weapons (one of which might now be wielded by Sigismund in the Dorn-iverse) inspire the same dread (Fluff wise) in the Citizens/soldiers of the Imperium as the Talon of Horus used to in the Norm 40Kverse? (If I recall correctly in second edition the wielder of the Talon of Horus (Abaddon) used to cause both Fear and Hatred in Blood angel models due to it being the weapon that killed their primarch) - given that it did actually KILL the mortal part of the Emperor in this version of 'history'...

[G3rman]

Norm-verse has Dorn using a two-handed chainsword as touched on in another topic here on B&C. I believe that a Thunder Hammer, two-handed or not, would suffice as a fluffy weapon of his as the IF are known for them. Considering Horus was killed with a mere banner pole however, I doubt that Dorn has any specific weapon endeared to him for killing a Primarch or striking fear into Imperial hearts. But current-verse Dorn equipment can easily be adapted as DH chaos relics with their own story behind them, so feel free to find use in Kantor's and Lysander's Wargear.

[Allfather1]

Aurelius, I was wondering if the Imperial Fists IA would be a Black Legion IA or a Sons of Dorn IA.

 

To clarify that a Black Legion IA would be about Sigismund and his lads and go into detail about them while a Sons of Dorn would be about all Sons of Dorn but would go into lesser detail. I hope that it will be a Sons of Dorn IA cause I really want to know what the differences are between a Scion of Dorn, a Black Legionary and a Crimson Fist.

 

I am just curious because the Imperial Fists are the only ones that have had such a split.

[AGPO]

What I'm curious about is when the next instalment is due.

[Epistolary Exander]

What I'm curious about is when the next instalment is due.

 

Ditto :).

[Aurelius Rex]

I am having a go at the LPC vow for my Scions of Dorn DIY chapter at the moment - a biker force composed of bike-mounted captain, his command squadron, and a squadron of attack bikes. It has been waaaaaaay too long since I have put paintbrush to model! :) Check out the WIP thread in PC&A here.

 

But as I have made surprisingly good progress on the vow so far, and have got a good portion of the attack bike squadron pushed close to completion, I should easily have it done way before the time limit.

 

Sooo... the Salamanders will be posted here on the 1st of April 2012. :)

 

 

Unfortunately time is against me this lunchtime, but to address some of the above posts, Culebras has it right; the order is Sals, and then the SoH/BT, IF/BL and then DG as three new articles in the part 2 PDF. Don't know when that will be. :)

 

@Leofric - The weaponry Dorn carries is unspecified, but I would imagine that he has access to anything he wants for any given battle. Would you want to be the Armourer functionary to say 'no' to a possessed primarch? :eek Feel free to arm him with whatever feels good for the model without fear that it will be categorically overtaken by events in the IA article.

 

@Allfather1 - The reason for the split being mentioned among the former Imperial Fists will be covered more deeply in the IA, but the short version is that after the Heresy and the death of their primarch the recriminations too deep for Sigismund to reconcile. The marines that were extensively possessed during Dorn's last desperate push on Terra split off to become the Crimson Fists and the elements who felt that Sigismund had betrayed Dorn's vision and legacy became the (alternate) Scions of Dorn. Yes, this is self-indulgent to include my Norm-'verse DIY chapter. I admit it. :)

 

I haven't decided what to call the article yet, but it will probably be IA:BL with the offshoots being discussed as tangents, or in colourpieces.

 

 

So look out for April Fool's Day, and the Salamanders article!

 

Cheers,

Aurelius.

[Ubermensch Commander]

So look out for April Fool's Day, and the Salamanders article!

 

Cheers,

Aurelius.

 

 

I suspect a trap! :)

 

Thanks so much for your continued work Aurelius. Mighty kind of you to be sharing it with us all here on the interwebz.

Looking forward to seeing my beloved Salamanders done up Dornian Heresy style...assuming this is not all some CLEVER RUSE! :P

[Olis]

Admiral Ackbar would like a word, Aurelius. :)

[Aurelius Rex]

What? When have I ever been late with one of these articles?

 

...

 

Oh, OK... bad example! :lol:

[Son of Carnelian]

Apologizes if this is off topic, but has anyone modeled a force of Dornian Heresy models? My ineffectual searching seems to come up with zilch. I love this heresy though and depending on the next chaos codex, a Imperial Fists army may be in my future!

[Olis]

Apologizes if this is off topic, but has anyone modeled a force of Dornian Heresy models? My ineffectual searching seems to come up with zilch. I love this heresy though and depending on the next chaos codex, a Imperial Fists army may be in my future!

 

Well, there was some 40k Damocles pattern power armour on ebay for a while but I haven't seen any for ages. The seller in question had even produced some star wars storm trooper heads to go with (which I thought was blasphemy). ;)

[Conn Eremon]

I am curious about one thing. Why the flip flop of Black Legion and Black Templars? I would think that they would keep their original names, Sigismund's group still calling themselves the Black Templars because Sigismund is *the* Templar from whence the name comes.

 

I assume there's a reason behind it, like maybe in this reality Abaddon calls himself the Templar as opposed to Sigismund, or maybe he takes the title from him after a duel climaxing with a "You're not worthy of the title" style quote. It just kind of bugs me not knowing the reason why they would flip flop, since in my mind they should retain their old names, especially since the loyalists still retain their legionary trappings.

 

Otherwise, the bulk and sum of this endeavor is damn good, and though I came in late, when the Night Lords were announced as being the next IA, I have been almost constant track for further developments.

[Son of Carnelian]

Apologizes if this is off topic, but has anyone modeled a force of Dornian Heresy models? My ineffectual searching seems to come up with zilch. I love this heresy though and depending on the next chaos codex, a Imperial Fists army may be in my future!

 

Well, there was some 40k Damocles pattern power armour on ebay for a while but I haven't seen any for ages. The seller in question had even produced some star wars storm trooper heads to go with (which I thought was blasphemy). :)

 

Blasphemy indeed, brother! But someone had to BUY those models... So where are they now? Who posted them? Where can I see them? GRRR! All Space Marine plastic kits should come with a pamphlet for the B&C. Even unofficial ones!

[lokkorex]

i posted this question a while back, but didn't get an answer.

 

what is the organisation of the legions in the dornian heresy on a grand company and company level, with dedicated tactical and support companies?

 

is it the same as normverse chapters, or far from it?

 

specifically, i want to know about the iron warriors and their titan legions

[Olis]

Blasphemy indeed, brother! But someone had to BUY those models... So where are they now? Who posted them? Where can I see them? GRRR! All Space Marine plastic kits should come with a pamphlet for the B&C. Even unofficial ones!

 

Well, if you want to check out the models, I've located the B&C thread for them. :D

[Aurelius Rex]

i posted this question a while back, but didn't get an answer.

 

what is the organisation of the legions in the dornian heresy on a grand company and company level, with dedicated tactical and support companies?

 

is it the same as normverse chapters, or far from it?

 

specifically, i want to know about the iron warriors and their titan legions

Hi Lokkorex,

 

Regarding the organisational structure, it would follow the Grand Company format from pre-Heresy times. There was no Guilliman to establish his Codex format on the surviving Imperial legions. There would also probably be quite large variations between the legions and their organisation even during the Great Crusade, and throw onto that ten millennia of divergence bewteen legions and there will be lots of scope for things to vary a great deal and for them to do what works.

 

So, you could think of an individual Grand Company in a similar way to a chapter in that it has a high degree of autonomy under its commander and would be (generally) self-sufficient, but wouldn't be restricted to the thousand Astartes 'limit' in any way. With regards to the Iron Warriors, the IA mentions that different Grand Companies have different styles of warfare, due to tradition, the type of equipment and vehicle support they have or the whims of their commander - some extensively use tank assault, some use termie teleporters, some superheavies / artillery, some use knight walker support and some even use tunnelers to get past enemy defences. This variation would exist to a greater or lesser degree in all of the legions, but was just mentioned in the IW IA.

 

As to titans and the Iron Warriors... I would have to read back to confirm this, but I believe that it has only been rumored that they use titans, and so their existence is not confirmed. If they do use them, I think the wording is along the lines that the devastation that is wrought by their use is so great that there are no witnesses outside the legion - even their allies - to their use. However I would have to check back to be sure, it has been a while. :)

 

 

@MSoT - I have seen some people modelling DH forces. For instance Honda has been working on some Iron Hands, there are a couple of DH forces - including a Death Guard one - being constructed as vows for the Librarium Painting Challenge in PC&A and I have some half-painted World Eaters and Emperor's Children in my collection. :)

 

@CA - Hopefully I can put your mind to rest when the appropriate IA's are written. I will bear your post in mind while doing so. :)

[Ubermensch Commander]

I am curious about one thing. Why the flip flop of Black Legion and Black Templars? I would think that they would keep their original names, Sigismund's group still calling themselves the Black Templars because Sigismund is *the* Templar from whence the name comes.

 

I assume there's a reason behind it, like maybe in this reality Abaddon calls himself the Templar as opposed to Sigismund, or maybe he takes the title from him after a duel climaxing with a "You're not worthy of the title" style quote. It just kind of bugs me not knowing the reason why they would flip flop, since in my mind they should retain their old names, especially since the loyalists still retain their legionary trappings.

 

Otherwise, the bulk and sum of this endeavor is damn good, and though I came in late, when the Night Lords were announced as being the next IA, I have been almost constant track for further developments.

 

 

If I read Aurelius' work correctly, the name change was for similar reasons as their norm'verse counterparts, just inverted.

Abaddon got his power armored britches in a huff because Horus failed to protect the Emperor. Dealing with guilt and rage and seeking to re-focus and re-invigorate the reeling Imperium, Abaddon organizes the first Black Crusade. To this end, he renames the Sons of Horus the Black Templars, distancing himself from the name of Horus (and Horus' perceived failure) and announcing his intention to constantly crusade against the forces of Chaos, in atonement for Horus' inability to save the Emperor and to wreak terribly vengeance upon the traitors.

 

Sigismund, on the other hand, seeks to distance himself from Dorn's name. Such is the price of failure when leading a band of genetically engineered murder-man-children. Siggy is not the architect of any crusades, black or otherwise, in the Dornian universe (Though Aurelius is hinting that may be a comin' down the line soon, if memory serves :) ) and wanted a clean slate for his rep. To this end, the Imperial Fists are renamed the Black Legion, just like Abaddon's Sons of Horus in the regular verse. Same motivation really and because they are on the back step (and not associated with the righteous zealot knight themes of loyalists) they are not Templars as such, merely a dark and brooding new Legion.

 

I hope that helps and I also hope I did not butcher Aurelius' original intent. :D