Azarias Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Well, hang on. If we're looking for apparent anachronisms in the Warhammer 40K universe, we need look no further than the fact that many of the foot soldiers are armed with close combat weapons. Save for a few rare circumstances, most of what we conceive of as modern warfare tends to take place at a distance - yet in this game a melee is a perfectly legitimate combat option (unless you're Tau...). But I tend to view this as a result of an arms race. You develop better bunker-busting bombs, and in response people develop better bunkers, which brings you back to where you were before this development. The same goes with the Space Marines' approach to close combat: you develop superb armor, capable of withstanding most long-range fire, and suddenly melee becomes a valid option. I remember reading in The First Heretic about a Word Bearers chaplain who had been killed by a savage with a lucky stroke to the neck with a spear. If you can't rely on guns to take them down, then perhaps close combat becomes viable once again? And, given that technology has attained an absolute stasis in the WH40K universe, it shouldn't be surprising that they're stuck for 10 millennia in a kind of stalemate. But this only goes so far as to explain the current, canon situation. Regarding the Ultramarines, yes, it looks as though they're suddenly going to get geared up. Fine. But keep in mind how much catching up they've had to do: Mars won't talk to them. So while they can replace or repair certain pieces of equipment, they're going to have to spend a few hundred, or even thousand, years reverse-engineering things, reclaiming the technical know-how, and so forth, until they can start becoming masters of their own machinery. Yes, because they've started from the ground-floor and only gone up, they've got a much better understanding of how everything works. But they've had to start at a severe disadvantage. So, while things can only get better for the Dornian Ultramarines, it's likely that they've had to put a lot of work into catching up. Hence the relative technological stalemate between them and the Imperium thus far. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Rex Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Only just catching up on the Ultramar discussion, and have to say that it was very thorough. :tu: The important points have all been covered, really... The idea that Guilliman's Codex was so comprehensive and useful that over the millennia people a lot of Ultramarines just got too comfortable with it, and used it as a cruch rather than a spur for original thought is a big part of it, and this complacency is something that Calgar is now fighting to shake out of the realm. If he succeeds, and that's not by any means as simple as him decreeing it from Ultramar, then the Imperium is in for a seriously rough time! The lion's share of the Iron Warriors and the Alpha Legion - well, those not guarding the Eye - have been fighting a losing battle against the slow expansion of a relatively docile Ultramar Segmentum, so imagine what a re-invigorated one would be capable of! So I have a question. If the World Weaters and the Night Lords didn't get along during the heresy, what does their relationship look like now? Is it like the Lion and the wolf rivalry? and What about the Emperor's Children and the Word Bearers. Do the Ec hold any grudges regarding that whole age of apostasy thing? anybody have any thoughts? Hehe, things such as the relationships between the Legions I am aiming to cover in the Black Templar / SoH IA - relating to how Abaddon and his successors manipulate and wrangle the legions into the massed Imperial crusades. But briefly the World Eaters would be willing to join a crusade with the Night Lords for the greater good of the Imperium, but the Crusade commander would be wise to keep them as far apart as possible as the straight-laced WE would find the NL's tactics extremely distasteful. As to the EC and the Word Bearers... the EC 'know' that they are superior to those 'fanatics', but it is a testament to the legacy of Sebastien Thor's conciliatory role that he was able to mend a lot of severely burnt bridges. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelbor-Hal Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 About the whole Ultramarines discussion: If you read Know no fear, you'll gain a great deal of insight of the Ultramarine mindset, and will understatnd the suspicion towards xenos tech (and btw. the necessity, nature and meaning of 'siege warfare' and close combat in the grimdark future). The logic it self comes from Guilliman's teachings, and is a solid one, if you bear in mind that we're talking about warriors, who live their whole lives according to the primarch's credo (even prior the Codex). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickers Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 So it`s just a little over two weeks (everyone please grab their salt) till the Salamanders IA. Whats everyone most excited for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus 101 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Malamaders! Malamanders! Malamanders! The thing I'm most excited about is... well, everything. I'm just looking forward to another view on the events of the Dornian Heresy and the following years. I also want to see if there's anything about Angrom dying, although that might be better left in mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGPO Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I think the renegade chapters excite me most because of the modelling possibilities. One day I'll get those Dornian armies modelled up. One day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culebras Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Ok I did something earlier for the night lords so I will do it again for the salamanders. Here is a quick recap of everything we know about them for those who may be coming in late. If I miss anything, feel free to mention it. -The Salamanders participated at the Drop site massacre. They used heavy weapons on fleeing world eaters and Angron was last seen leaping into their midst to buy time for the survivors. The Salamanders may know what happen to him (or they could be lying) -They are led by a "burned and bitter Primarch" who is "hideously disfigured." Vulkan is also described as having a "nihilistic" philosophy that spread to his legion. -The Salamanders accompanied the Imperial fists to Terra, making them one of the few Legions to fight at both Istvaan and The imperial palace. (dark angels left, Iron hands stopped at Mars, and the Blood angels and White scars fought on terra only.) -The salamanders have made war on both the imperium and the servants of chaos -Notable battle of the Salamanders include the "burning of Skalathrax," which led to strong friendships and oaths of brotherhood between the World Eaters and the Emperor's Children, and the Cleansing of Gorthan-Liess -Finally, there is mention of the warp entity Malal So I have some big questions that I hope will be answered. 1. how did Vulkan get disfigured and loose his way. Does it have something to do with his origin story or did it come later? Was he always so hostile to the imperium or did his nihilism develop over time? Are we talking about a new version of the normal universe angron that always disliked the emperor or is this more like Lorgar corruption into heresy? 2. What really happened to Angron? Was/is there a dark side to the World Eaters that we haven't seen until now? 3. Who or what is Malal? How does it tie in to the greater narrative. 4. What about some of the big name battles that the Salamanders have taken part in. Armageddon, the badab war, etc. 5. did the Legion "break" after Terra or did it stay in one piece? Obviously, the Ultramarines have subdivided themselves heavily. Of the legions that turned traitor, the raven guard and space wolves have both "broken up" into small war bands. The Imperial fists/black legion and the white scars have sort of broken up but not as badly. Blood angels, the iron hands, and dark angels are still nominally controlled by their primarchs or Luther, respectively) but now operate on a smaller "chapter" sized force aimed at raiding and pillaging. 6. does the promethean cult still exist and if so, in what form? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servus Christi Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I've still not been able to bring my self to read any of this alternative history :unsure:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I've still not been able to bring my self to read any of this alternative history ^_^. Do it, brother. You might like it. I did. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 3. Who or what is Malal? How does it tie in to the greater narrative. Isn't Malal one of those old fluff Chaos Gods who just kind of got ignored as time wore on? If I remember correctly, he embodies the self-destructive nature of Chaos, and is a bit of a renegade. The Malice from the Sons of Malice renegade Chapter might be referring to Malal. Personally, I think that fits rather well with how I'd see the Salamanders going traitor. Heavily embittered and self-destructive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 3. Who or what is Malal? How does it tie in to the greater narrative. Isn't Malal one of those old fluff Chaos Gods who just kind of got ignored as time wore on? If I remember correctly, he embodies the self-destructive nature of Chaos, and is a bit of a renegade. The Malice from the Sons of Malice renegade Chapter might be referring to Malal. Personally, I think that fits rather well with how I'd see the Salamanders going traitor. Heavily embittered and self-destructive. Yea, pretty much. From what i remember, Malal was the chaos god of chaos. he has no structure, no core belief other than causing chaos (especially on his brothers). as he no no goals besides causing chaos, he was able to thwart tzeentch from time to time. think of the core belief of the joker from the Dark Knight. the problems from his creation in fluff. when 40k was being created it was common for pieces to be contributed to the fluff, and eventually GW bought the idea and such. the creator of the Malal concept had a falling out with GW, and took his ideas with him when he left. (Malal chief among them). now GW has hinted at a return to Malal, or a Malal type being, with the creation of the Sons of Malice and then entity they serve. What this pans out to is still a question mark, one i am very interested in seeing answered (this is how to info of Malal was related to me...i aint saying its true, just what i was told in my younger years.) WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickers Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 "1. how did Vulkan get disfigured and loose his way. Does it have something to do with his origin story or did it come later? Was he always so hostile to the imperium or did his nihilism develop over time? Are we talking about a new version of the normal universe angron that always disliked the emperor or is this more like Lorgar corruption into heresy?" My money is during his first battle with the Dark Eldar is when Vulkan is disfigured, and the scene in their HH short story (the name escapes me at the moment), when Vulkan and the Emperor are talking is the start of his fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqui Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 3. Who or what is Malal? How does it tie in to the greater narrative. Isn't Malal one of those old fluff Chaos Gods who just kind of got ignored as time wore on? If I remember correctly, he embodies the self-destructive nature of Chaos, and is a bit of a renegade. The Malice from the Sons of Malice renegade Chapter might be referring to Malal. Personally, I think that fits rather well with how I'd see the Salamanders going traitor. Heavily embittered and self-destructive. Yea, pretty much. From what i remember, Malal was the chaos god of chaos. he has no structure, no core belief other than causing chaos (especially on his brothers). as he no no goals besides causing chaos, he was able to thwart tzeentch from time to time. think of the core belief of the joker from the Dark Knight. the problems from his creation in fluff. when 40k was being created it was common for pieces to be contributed to the fluff, and eventually GW bought the idea and such. the creator of the Malal concept had a falling out with GW, and took his ideas with him when he left. (Malal chief among them). now GW has hinted at a return to Malal, or a Malal type being, with the creation of the Sons of Malice and then entity they serve. What this pans out to is still a question mark, one i am very interested in seeing answered (this is how to info of Malal was related to me...i aint saying its true, just what i was told in my younger years.) WLK What you remember of Malice/Malal is what I remember and alluded to here I kinda like the concept of a Chaos God, feeding off and peeing off other Chaos Gods :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 @Aquilanus: its good to know my ramblings have some base in fact! and i always loved the idea of a "chaos" god myself, the other 4 are too "structured" to be real chaos in my opinion. WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Rex Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Erk! Massive apology - and this isn't an April Fool, it is just terrible mistiming on my part - but it took hugely more time to finish my LPC vow than I had estimated and the Salamanders IA won't be ready for the first. :tu: Sorry to everyone who has been anticipating the arrival, and a place in the painglove has been reserved for me to see out my penitence. Plan B is to have it ready as soon as possible before the end of April, and to give updates in the title subheader as it is approaching completion. Again, sorry for the delay, Aurelius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarias Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I say this in all admiration, but don't worry - I don't think any of us were going to be too surprised by a necessary delay. Take your time - it'll be ready when it's ready. Don't worry 'till then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelbor-Hal Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Well, that's no surprise... <_< But it's ok, we'll just wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus 101 Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Your LPC was awesome enough to make up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modernangelofdeath Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 hey, didnt this happen last year too? dont worry, genius cant be rushed, and neither can the Malamanders evidently. either way, i can a little bit longer. there wont be too much of a wait right Aurelius? *revs chainsword impatiantly* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Rex Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 hey, didnt this happen last year too? Er, possibly... :P Although I do remember one occasion when the IA was on time! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGPO Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 My guess about Vulkan's disfuigurement is that it comes from the point where the Big E saves him from that lava flow during the challenge after their first meeting. My guess is this time the Emperor either gets there too late or isn't around to save him, meaning Vulkan gets burned up. It also explains why he'd have less loyalty to the Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Rex Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 My guess about Vulkan's disfuigurement is that it comes from the point where the Big E saves him from that lava flow during the challenge after their first meeting. My guess is this time the Emperor either gets there too late or isn't around to save him, meaning Vulkan gets burned up. It also explains why he'd have less loyalty to the Emperor. No. :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 My guess about Vulkan's disfuigurement is that it comes from the point where the Big E saves him from that lava flow during the challenge after their first meeting. My guess is this time the Emperor either gets there too late or isn't around to save him, meaning Vulkan gets burned up. It also explains why he'd have less loyalty to the Emperor. No. ;) *whew* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modernangelofdeath Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 My guess about Vulkan's disfuigurement is that it comes from the point where the Big E saves him from that lava flow during the challenge after their first meeting. My guess is this time the Emperor either gets there too late or isn't around to save him, meaning Vulkan gets burned up. It also explains why he'd have less loyalty to the Emperor. No. :D dammit Aurelius! stop commenting and torturing us with long waits for the awesome we're waiting for and finish the Malamanders IA so i can stop smashing my head on the keyboard everytime i see that you've commented! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 My guess about Vulkan's disfuigurement is that it comes from the point where the Big E saves him from that lava flow during the challenge after their first meeting. My guess is this time the Emperor either gets there too late or isn't around to save him, meaning Vulkan gets burned up. It also explains why he'd have less loyalty to the Emperor. No. :P dammit Aurelius! stop commenting and torturing us with long waits for the awesome we're waiting for and finish the Malamanders IA so i can stop smashing my head on the keyboard everytime i see that you've commented! Well you konw what they say "evil come to those that wait" :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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