WH or DH with inducted Imperial guards

[Brother Gorman]

Hello,

 

Ive been wanting to collect an inquisition army for quite some time and finally decided to start one, but since i have no experience with DH or WH i have a few questions.

 

Problem is, i really want to include the cool stuff like inquisitors with retinue and inducted imperials guards. But from what i see most lists dont use these.

 

Can you make a decent list with mostly inducted imperial guards and inquisitor HQ? And which codex would be the best backbone for this?

Im not looking for a tournament compeditive list, just want to be able to put up a decent fight in friendly games.

[Peredyne]

The inquisition lists you'll see on the B&C will focus on the power-armored options, since inducted guard are not power armored, and therefore, not allowed for discussion on the forums.

 

That being said, compare the WH stormtrooper to the sister of battle. For one point more, the sister has power armor, bolter, and a better BS. Not a whole lot of question as to which unit to use. The biggest options in the ST's favor is access to plasma guns and chimeras. That's it.

 

EDIT: Can you make a decent list using mostly inducted guard and INQ HQs? Of course you can. But we can only really discuss the Inquisition HQ's and not the inducted IG's.

[Melissia]

Inducted guardsmen are discussed here, with the note that it is ONLY the inducted guardsmen that are discussed, because they are a possible part of a power armor army through being part of a WH or DH list.

 

Scouts aren't power armored, either, and they're discussed-- because they're part of the Marine army.

 

I made a possible list for 2000 in the Armies of the Imperium forum:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=144270

 

THat's one example of how they could be used.

 

 

The parent list (WH/DH) must have at least one HQ, and two troops. The inducted list can have up to 0-4 troops, 0-3 fast attack (rough riders or sentinels), and 0-1 Leman Russ. The FA and HS options require at least two troops choice from the inducted guardsmen. They cannot have doctrines.

[Marid]

That being said, compare the WH stormtrooper to the sister of battle. For one point more, the sister has power armor, bolter, and a better BS. Not a whole lot of question as to which unit to use. The biggest options in the ST's favor is access to plasma guns and chimeras. That's it.

 

One correction on that comparison: storm troopers and SOB have the same BS. SOB are still the better buy unless, for example, you want plasma guns.

[Melissia]

Even then, you're sacrificing a 3+ save and bolters for plasma guns-- the Sisters can still get combiplasmas.

 

Also note, inquisitorial stormies aren't power armored either, but we still discuss them here.

[Aidoneus]

Had a friend who used to play WH with inducted guard. He'd take 2 squads of sisters in Rhinos, 2 small IST squads, an inquisitor with retinue, a cannoness, seraphim, and an exorcist, and then he'd ally-in two armoured fist squads with lascannons and a leman russ. It worked really well as a mostly-static shooting list with some mobility and a pretty solid reactionary CC punch. I know my tyranids absolutely hated it.

 

I personally play DH. I play mostly-pure Grey Knights (usually all GK with one or two squads of IST), and I virtually never take inducted guard. The couple times I tried it worked out pretty well, but it just wasn't the playstyle I love from my GKs. But you can definitely make some fun mounted GK lists with armoured fists and leman russes to back you up, or infantry-heavy with scores (literally) or IG sitting on objectives.

 

I think the real opportunity for inducted IG (as well as space marines) is for radical inquisitors. In a DH list, for example, take an Inq Lord, Daemonhosts, and two squads of ISTs, and fill in the rest with inducted IG, assassins, and maybe an orbital barrage. It would be radically (haha, get it :) ) different from standard DH builds, and would be a ton of fun to play with, as long as you're playing with friends and don't expect a perfect win record.

[number6]

I would add to this discussion that if you actually like the guard, and intend to make that the focus of your army -- albeit with a heavy dose of allied Inquisition thrown in for flavor, fun, and punch -- you'll actually have far superior list-building options if you build a base IG list. With the exception of Heavy Support, you have decent access to every force org unit in the DH and WH -- and playing IG, you wouldn't really miss the HS choices anyway!

 

That said, if you go this route, you'll need to frequent a forum other than the B&C, as IG lists are verboten.

[Melissia]

I was toying around with Army Builder and came up with this 2000 point list:

 

 

 

45 bolters

60 Lasguns

8 Heavy Bolters

6 Lascannons

2 Mortars

4 Heavy Flamers

6 Multi-Use FLamers

5 Single-use flamers

71 Sisters

70 Guardsmen

 

A fearsome army indeed.

[Mal]

Had a friend who used to play WH with inducted guard. He'd take 2 squads of sisters in Rhinos, 2 small IST squads, an inquisitor with retinue, a cannoness, seraphim, and an exorcist, and then he'd ally-in two armoured fist squads with lascannons and a leman russ. It worked really well as a mostly-static shooting list with some mobility and a pretty solid reactionary CC punch. I know my tyranids absolutely hated it.

 

The two items in bold are mutually exclusive, you cannot have both as they are both heavy support options and for allies you can have ZERO heavy support options. So which ever dex is used as the parent, one of these options is illegal.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Mal, you are thinking of alllying WH to IG. The list there is legal, Chamber Militant parent with Inducted IG works. You require two Troops of Inducted Guard, then you can take 0-1 Leman Russ. As long as the compulsory choices were from the C:WH list, that all fine.

 

If IG are the parent list, then no, you cannot take Exorcists.

 

For reference, the chart is on p26 of C:WH, in the sidebar.

[Mal]

Ahh yes I had forgotten about that weird ruling... made all the weirder since its contradicted on P.25. But then thats GW.

 

Gotta love it... P.25 says no heavy support, then P.26 says you can have heavy support.... nice one GW.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Page 25 refers to other Imperial Armies (Space Marines, Imperial Guard) using Inquisition units, where page 26 refers to Inquisition armies using other Imperial Armies forces. A fine difference, but it's there :lol:

[Melissia]

Yep.

 

See, a base Imperial Guard army, with allied Witch Hunters, cannot have allied Heavy Support options.

 

A base Witch Hunters army with allied Imperial Guard can have 0-1 heavy support options, with the only HS option avalable to take being the Leman Russ.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Melissia Posted Today, 10:05 PM

Yep.

 

See, a base Imperial Guard army, with allied Witch Hunters, cannot have allied Heavy Support options.

 

A base Witch Hunters army with allied Imperial Guard can have 0-1 heavy support options, with the only HS option avalable to take being the Leman Russ.

 

Actually, if you use the FW rules, a WH or DH army with Inducted Guard can have 0-1 of each of the following:

Leman Russ, Vanquisher, Conqueror, Exterminator, Executioner, and a load of other stuff. :devil:

 

Full details are on p201 of Imperial Armour 2: Space Marines and Forces of the Inquisition. Unfortunately the vehicles it refers to are in Imperial Armour 1: Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy.

 

So, it is possible to fill all 3 HS slots with Inducted IG stuff, as long as you have the prerequisite 2 Troops of Inducted IG, and compulsory choices from the parent list.

[Mal]

So there are more loopholes than actual rules? Yup definately a GW game.

[Melissia]

Actually, if you use the FW rules, a WH or DH army with Inducted Guard can have 0-1 of each of the following:

Nope. Read it again.

 

All units must be taken exactly as they are in CodeX: Space Marines or Codex: Imperial Guardand may only use the upgrades listed there.

 

No loophole there-- A C:WH base army may only take one Leman Russ, and only the basic Leman Russ (the one with the Battle Cannon). A C:WH army cannot use Forgeworld rules designed for the Imperial Guard, as the rules for C:WH with Inducted Guard states that it MUST be taken ONLY from C:IG.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I would tend to have to agree that a Leman Russ, is not the same as a Leman Russ Vanquisher, similarly that a Land Raider is not a Land Raider Crusader, et all. The inducted forces are very limited in type as they represent the most common units from the other Codex choices. The real expansion stuff like IA2 is very army specific... granted I haven't gotten to read through those books as no one here really owns them.. but we're cool with using the point values from things like IA: Apocalypse and such (which is the one we have... just haven't saved money for the others save the DLable IA2 update).

[Mal]

I would tend to have to agree that a Leman Russ, is not the same as a Leman Russ Vanquisher, similarly that a Land Raider is not a Land Raider Crusader, et all. The inducted forces are very limited in type as they represent the most common units from the other Codex choices. The real expansion stuff like IA2 is very army specific... granted I haven't gotten to read through those books as no one here really owns them.. but we're cool with using the point values from things like IA: Apocalypse and such (which is the one we have... just haven't saved money for the others save the DLable IA2 update).

 

If you want to discuss anything from the IA2 book send me a PM, I have a copy that outside of my sisters force, I don't use.

I'll be happy to discuss its contents with you.

[Melissia]

The only thing that's really relevant to this discussion is if it says anything about a C:WH force using Induced Imperial Guard. Which I sincerely doubt it does...

 

Besides that, C:WH says specifically "0-1 Leman Russ Battle Tank"...

[Grand Master Tyrak]

No loophole there-- A C:WH base army may only take one Leman Russ, and only the basic Leman Russ (the one with the Battle Cannon). A C:WH army cannot use Forgeworld rules designed for the Imperial Guard, as the rules for C:WH with Inducted Guard states that it MUST be taken ONLY from C:IG.

 

Imperial Armour 2, p 201:

"The following Imperial Armour units may be used in a Daemon Hunters or Witch Hunters army, which also includes at least 2 Tropps choices of Inducted Imperial Guard. Full rules for these vehicles can be found in Imperial Armour Volume 1."

 

This is important otherwise I am breaking forum rules by talking about purely IG stuff.

[Mal]

Well since there is an exorcist in there, its a which hunters army... Hmm... I never noticed that bit before... I'll have to pull the book out and have another read.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Imperial Armour 2, p 201:

"The following Imperial Armour units may be used in a Daemon Hunters or Witch Hunters army, which also includes at least 2 Tropps choices of Inducted Imperial Guard. Full rules for these vehicles can be found in Imperial Armour Volume 1."

 

This is important otherwise I am breaking forum rules by talking about purely IG stuff.

I stand corrected... hmm... that opens a whole slew of possibilities. Well pointed out, Tyrak :P

[Melissia]

Imperial Armour 2, p 201:

"The following Imperial Armour units may be used in a Daemon Hunters or Witch Hunters army, which also includes at least 2 Tropps choices of Inducted Imperial Guard. Full rules for these vehicles can be found in Imperial Armour Volume 1."

So then that means you may use 0-1 Leman Russ Battle Tanks, but multiple versions of everything else. Wonderful, forge-world :yes:

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Melissia Posted Today, 06:26 AM

So then that means you may use 0-1 Leman Russ Battle Tanks, but multiple versions of everything else. Wonderful, forge-world :D

 

Not quite. You can never include multiples of the same Leman Russ variant. So, you can have 1 Leman Russ and 1 Leman Russ Vanquisher, but not 2 Vanquishers.

[Melissia]

Does it actually say that in Imperial Armor 2, Tyrak, or are you basing it off of C:WH?

 

C:WH only has the limitation for the Leman Russ Battle Tank.