What are the best weapons to kill "nids?

[rus11870]

OK, I have a match coming up against some Nids, what are the best SM weapons to use to kill them?

 

BRAZEN CLAWS 5TH COMPANY

FOR FERRUS AND THE EMPEROR!!

[Brother Gathurn]

Heavy bolters and snipe's for the warriors and to assassanate any biovores ofr wariors or anythig for that matter. Otherwise a vindecator is great

[glsn]

Whirlwind, Heavy Bolter and Heavy Flamer are best for taking out infantry. MCs are best dealt with using Missile Launchers and Lascannons. Missile Launchers can also be used against infantry using frag, but I don't remember having done this. Best bet would be devastators using Heavy Bolters and remeber to aim at the Genestealers first.

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

Take a dev squad with 1 LC and 3 ML's. Sternguard with all the combi flamers they can get, ironclads, HB's, a plasma cannon is a great way of overkilling every gaunt you see, and TH/SS termies ROFL at expensive carnifexes.If you use any of these things correctly Hilarity will ensue.

[Jackelope King]

Even something as simple as massed bolter fire will turn broods of the smaller bugs into Nid-flavored mush after a round of fire.

 

The bigger bugs are a pain in the butt, thanks to the rules MCs get to live by, especially when the player pimps out carnifexes and hive tyrants. I was on the receiving end of 7 Carnifexes and two Tyrants during an Apocalypse game over the weekend, all deep-striking into a tiny area thanks to an Apocalypse Formation. It was brutal. In that sort of situation, you really need either massed Lascannon / Multi-Melta fire to tear into them (we massed Eldar Anti-Tank weaponry against them coupled with hellfire shots and a bike command squad packing meltaguns) or a squad of serious heavy hitters (like a squad of Assault Terminators with Thunder Hammers / Storm Shields). Big bugs can be an issue, but sending a standard Land Raider into the fray loaded up with five Thunder Hammer / Storm Shield Assault Terminators will let you kill them off considerably easier.

[Warp Angel]

The basic bolter is where it's at. Massed bolter fire will do stupid amounts of damage to most bugs.

 

Single shot/non Template heavy weapons are almost (I didn't say are) a waste, since the only bugs it MIGHT matter on are Carnifexes, Brood Lords, and Tyrants. Everything else has a 4+ or worse save.

 

Volume of fire is more important than quality of fire.

[Captain Malachi]

Volume of fire is more important than quality of fire.

I think that line pretty much sums it up, anything that can inflict multiple wounds is a good choice to take. Things not to take include meltas (including the multimelta) and lascannons (missile launchers work just as well, are cheaper and have frag option). 'nids and orks are the only armies I'd recommend flamer armed assault squads, you won't clear them all with the flamers so should still get the charge, but you will do enough damage to make them worth it. Also, remember that gaunts don't get an armour save against bolters.

[Mal]

Ok.... by nids do you mean:

 

A: Nidzilla (lots of MC's)

 

B: Gaunt spam (insane amounts of guants)

 

C: Stealer Spam (broodlord and stealer army, nasty)

 

D: Mixed force

 

 

Each option has a different approach to beating it....

[Shiodome]

absolutely without any doubt THE best weapon vs nids is a boltgun wielded by a sternguard veteran. against any nids list.

[son of macragge]

surprised no-one has said a vindicator or a dakka pred......

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

Thing is while windicators and strong blasts/indirect/ordnance weapons can destroy whole broods of bugs they can only put one wound on MC's (Which I find stupid, a super las-cannon fired from the battle barge can destroy a whole squad of nobs, warboss and painboy but only slightly annoy a carnifex?) The worst (And therefore most popular) nid lists I find are stealer spam, scoring, fleeting and putting out around 60 re-rolling and rending at a higher initiative than space marines can get (Save quickening) is just mean. And if the hardest to fight. First of all they aren't on the table, they're outflanking and WILL kill anything guarding an objective close enough. Think you can wipe them out with your command squad in cover first? Forget it, they have flesh hooks, relying on your bolters to get past their save? Extended carapace is a bug players best friend. Thinking you can survive by quantity of bodies? They re-roll to hit with feeder tendrils (Another must have)and have rending. Want a snow-cone? I'm sure they have another cheap random organ to make those too. Well I'm going to end my rant.

[Mal]

The plus side is that by adding all of those biomorphs you significantly increase the base price of the stealer and cut their numbers by quite a bit...

 

I have a stealer army as my tourny force (hence it rarely gets played), it has a brood lord and 66 stealers, plus 3 ripper bases just for laughs. What makes it really nasty, the broodlord and his retinue, plus one of the other stealer units have been geared up to kill the big boys. You could say they have punch... or you could say they hit like a freight train...

 

But all this aside, they are not unbeatable.... Flamers are probally my number one worry with fielding my nids, only MC's have a half decent resistance against them, and the rippers... double wounds dealt against them.

 

Simple put, those biomorphs you listed add another 11 points per stealer... they start at 16 points... for every 3 upgraded, you can take 5 normal!!

 

What im trying to say (while rambling as per usual) is that if you face someone who has seriously upgraded their stealer army they will be fielding about 40% less stealers than regular armies.... thats a lot of stealers to loose out on.....

[rus11870]

Thanks for all the insight, I'm looking at lots of bolters. Got a 1750 point battle tomorrow, heres what I'm looking at:

 

Captain on bike

Chaplain on bike

8 X Bike Marines w/ Attack Bike

3 X Tactical squads w/Flamers and Heavy bolter and Missile Launchers in Rhinos

1 X Devastator squad (5 man) w/ MLs and LCs in Razorback

2 X Landspeeders w/ Assault Cannons

1 X Predator w/ Auto Cannon and Heavy Bolters

 

---------OR-----------

 

Captain on bike

8 X Bike Marines w/ Attack Bike

3 X Tactical squads w/Flamers and Heavy bolter and MLs in Rhinos

1 X Legion of the Damned w/ Flamer and Heavy Bolter

2 X Landspeeders w/ Assault Cannons

1 X Predator w/ Auto Cannon and Heavy Bolters

[Shiodome]

you're missing sternguard. i don't know why people don't see sternguard as the ultimate MC killing unit they are... either massed melta fire, or massed 'wounding on 2+' fire both cut MC's down to size. also mow down the smaller mobs, and are particularly good at dealing with extended carapace stealers/warriors, with an option of long range AP4 ammo, or making them roll massive numbers of saves with wounding on 2+ ammo.

 

the fact they're better in assaults than any of the other 'anti-nid' options mentioned here is just a nice bonus.

[rus11870]

I use what I have available to me, but I do see your point, I might put a Multi-Melta with a Tactical Squad.

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

Sternguard are very reliable (Especially when scoring) drop them and set them loose on whatever is closest. Give them a PF because they have a big "kill me" sign on them and give them combi's for what you want them to do and they'll be fine. Damn killy too. I've gotten three kill points in one shooting phase twice with these guys. Once against some very closely huddled guants/hormoguants/raveners 9Combi-flamers) and once against a large loota squad with two SAG meks (Ran off table)

 

 

Who doesn't <3 sternguard?

[Mal]

Who doesn't <3 sternguard?

 

Me....

[ShinyRhino]

Who doesn't <3 sternguard?

 

Me....

 

Me either. I've not yet seen Sternguard fielded to the effects everony raves about. I absolutely smoked a Libby with GoI and his attached Sternguard with basic bolter fire. Sternguard are a defensive unit in my opinion. They are not an offensive powerhouse. They're no tougher than a standard Marine, and therefore cannot withstand the massed fire they attract while on the front line. They're defenders who can change weaponry/ammo as targets get into range.

 

Against Nids, I'd park them behind some difficult terrain, and in cover, just in case you see some ShootyFexes. The difficult terrain won't slow Nids with Scuttlers all that much, but it might. Use long-range special ammo, and change out as the target gets closer to you. Maybe a single combi-flamer. Not 9. You won't get all 9 to fire against any Nid player with a brain before they Fleet charge you.

[mega_marines]

Whoops, double post.

[mega_marines]

Ok, I'm going to go back to the beginning of this thread and state what the best units to kill Tyranids is, considering I play them nearly every damned day at the shop.

 

My list of choices is as following:

 

Land Raider Crusader: This unit is insane against Tyranids, the entire race that is. It tears up basic Gaunt squads, makes Genestealers run away from it, runs over Warriors, and calls for the Big Bugs to kill it. Bets part is, it kills the big ones just as easy when you think about it. Load it up with the Multi-Melta upgrade and Extra Armor and you're ready to go to town on the bugs. The massed fire this baby puts out is immense and will usually kill a good average every turn if you use it right. Surprisingly one of the few best vehicles against Tyranids considering it can actually damage every single unit they have. Best vehicle choice to use. I nearly use them every game.

 

Sternguard: By The Emperor! This unit is insanity! Nearly as versatile as the Land Raider Crusader these bastards pack a mean punch! Equip a few with Combi-Flamers, line up, and let the bullets fly! With their basic armament these guys are even ready to go, as they can spell disaster for any Monstrous Creature using their Hellfire rounds. If you feel like even being a bit riskier, you can use Vengeance Rounds to give them a scare! I have had yet one game where they fail to perform. Use them strictly as a Counter Assault unit, or in Spearhead Assaults from vehicles such as the for mentioned land Raider Crusader for the deadliest 'Nid killer of all. Also the best Infantry unit in the game to kill nasty units with.

 

Vindicator: Oh boy, I love this tank. Throwing out the "Pie Plate Of Doom" every turn is fantastic. Best Swarm Killer if I have ever seen one, and not to shabby at knocking off wounds of big bugs nearby. If you need that swarm of 32 Gaunts reduced, employ the Vindicator. It's nicknamed "The Emperors Hammer" at our store, considering whatever it hits, is smashed! Look no further for swarm killers in the style of Ordnance.

 

Vanguard: Another good unit. A bit more limited though despite Jump Pack options. Use them for quick insertions and melee fights you know you can finish in that turn or the Tyranid Combat phase, or they're as good as dead. This goes for them on foot as well. Give them the stereotypical armament of a Relic Blade and some Power Power Weapons(Possibly even a Thunder Hammer and such) and launch them at a unit where you know you'll succeed. Also, your best chances are to make your Vanguard unit maxed out at ten models as well. You'll never know when it'll help. I mainly use them as a Counter Attack or as a move I call "Blockade". It's when I see an enemy unit I know I can't kill just yet, and will throw the entire kitchen sink at them in the Assault Phase. But, I only do that when I run out of options, and very rarely will that happen. Overall, this unit quite good at killing 'Nids, but not the best infantry unit for the job.

 

Land Raider Redeemer: I haven't had as much time as the other units to test this unit out, but it seemed pretty damned good to me when I used it. It's obviously an Offensive unit, and should be used as that. What it's best at, from what I've seen is delivering units into the fray. I like to use it as fore mentioned Transport with some kick to it. Essentially, it drives up to a swarm, drops it's unit out, unloads on the swarm, and the unit drops off finishes it off. Rinse and Repeat. Obviously there are other ways to use it, but that's all the experience I've had with this killer. Seems pretty worth it though. Especially if your army is geared for Assault Goodness.

 

Razorback: I wrap up this list with the humble Razorback. Don't let the simplicity of this Transport fool you either, it's got the angry war spirit of a lion in it! Even with it standard armament this vehicle has kick to it. Now, with even better swarm killing and MEQ killing options, it becomes a perfect gunboat. I've had particular success using the weapons in the following order. Twin-Linked Assault Cannons, Lascannon/Twin-Linked Plasma Gun, Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters, and Twin-Linked Heavy Flamers. Though it doesn't seem like much at all at first glance, it is truly one of the most potent weapons you can use. When given to a squad such as Sternguard, Devastators, or the basic Tactical unit, they provide the much desired ability to add more variety into the spice of death. One particular favorite of mine is getting a Sternguard unit of 5 with a Power Weapon, Melta Bombs, and two Combi-Flamers and tossing them in a Razorback with Twin-Linked Assault Cannons. It's absolutely deadly against swarm units as it takes down their numbers ridiculously quick and quite possibly the wounds of a Monstrous Creature even faster. Give this little warrior Extra Armor as well and you're in business! I rate this Transport right up there with the Land Raider Crusader when used appropriately.

 

That's pretty much my list against them, go ahead and try some out.

[Reinholt]

On the topic of Sternguard, and facing Tyranids is a perfect place to use as an example for this, I see three things happen with them that I don't like:

 

1) Over-equipping.

 

2) Poor deployment.

 

3) Lack of purpose.

 

The reason these are so relevant against Tyranids is that 'nids are experts at destruction and tying up shooting units. They are going to be able to move fast, often fleet, and often give you only a turn or two to apply maximum firepower before either they need to be dead or you are going to be dead.

 

Thus, making mistakes with using and arming your units against Tyranids is pretty unforgiving.

 

So, in short, to take Sternguard against Tyranids:

 

- Keep them cheap (don't go nuts on extra weapons, especially as you then pay for ammo only to take the ammo away unless it's a combi-weapon; expect to lose the squad and don't double down on your losses).

- Make sure you either deploy them at long range to maximize the time they have to shoot, or deploy them in a drop pod to dump one turn of absolutely hellish fire into a target (this is where multiple combi-flamers could really lay the beatdown on 'nids, especially a genestealer swarm).

- Know, from the first second they hit the board, what they are there to do and make sure they are positioned accordingly, as your margin for error will be slim. Sternguard are a lot of things, but tough (at least any more tough than a stock marine, only costing more points and usually in smaller squads) is not one of them.

[blood_raven_240]

Try a Tactical Squad with a Storm Bolter, Heavy Bolter, and Bolters. See the them here? Bolters.

[Warp Angel]

If I'm running sternguard, they come in 2 configurations:

 

Hunter and Defender. Coincidentally, just like my tactical squads.

 

Hunters get a handful of combi weapons and a drop pod.

 

Defenders get two plasma cannons and a rhino. The rhino is there because I like rhinos, not because I plan on using it to move them around most games. It essentially protects a flank from shooting or slows down an assault.

 

Hunters aren't great against 'nids because you're asking to get chewed to pieces.

 

Defenders work so much better than a tactical squad for sitting on objectives, it isn't funny. But they cost a lot more.

 

Like Reinholt said... don't over-equip them. And deploy them to the equipment you've given them.

[rus11870]

Here's the update.... I got my butt handed to me... I now know what Nidzilla is.... Fought annihilation match, lost 6 to 2, I didn't have enough heavy weapons to do enough damage, but I have seen the effective use of bikes and landspeeders. I do think my army list would work great against a swarm army, but oh well its all fun.

 

 

Oh, btw, why is it that every other force has better everything, weapons, toughness, attacks, etc... Humanity is going to have problems if the Astartes is their best warriors.

 

 

Brazen Claws 5th Company

 

For Ferrus and the Emperor!!

[Reinholt]

If it seems like the other army is better at everything, in my experience, the problem is usually that you don't know your opponent well enough and you are probably being outplayed.

 

A surprising majority of Tyranids are inferior in close combat to marines (biovores, zoanthropes, most gaunts, gargoyles, and even some warriors compared to a well-equipped marine squad). Certainly almost all of them are inferior shooting.

 

My general tips against Tyranids would be thus:

 

- Genestealers and Hive Tyrants are death if they get into your lines. The former can be easily annihilated with shooting, and don't hesitate to use transports to obstruct them until you can unload on the ugly suckers. For Hive Tyrands, either massed heavy weapon fire or TH/SS terminators do the trick pretty well.

 

- Make sure you have enough marines. The biggest issue with Tyranids is that you need to have bodies to take casualties in assault. Make sure you have enough marines. Make sure you have enough marines. Make sure you have enough marines. Make sure you have enough marines. Okay, I'm done now.

 

- Carnifexes tend to come in one of three flavors - shooty, assaulty, or way too many pointy because they are trying to do both. All of them die horribly to heavy weapons, and the ones that are not absolutely crazy good in assault should be dog meat for things like assault squads with power fists, bike squads that can roll up on them and unload with melta weapons before assaulting, or TH/SS terminators (I love these guys against 'nids).

 

Now, most Tyranid players tend to play either 'Nidzilla lists or Genestealer Brood lists. I'm not necessarily sure these are actually the best lists, but they are the most common.

 

Against Nidzilla, which is what you are facing:

 

- They tend to be light on troops, and don't hesitate to eliminate the troops with extreme prejudice if you get a chance. Often this is a good way to win missions; you can deny them the ability to achieve tactical objectives and spend the rest of the game running away from their big guys.

 

- Know which bugs are which. The big shooty ones should be tied up in assault by your mobile units, the assaulty ones should be shot to hell. Mobility will be key here, because carnifexes are classic lumbering behemoths and, if they can't catch you or dictate the terms of their fights, they are going to get beat down hard. Keep in mind you don't always have to kill them; tying up a barbed stranger / venom cannon carnifex in assault for an entire game with tactical marines is a big time win for you.

 

- Concentrate your firepower against the key bugs. The odds that you will kill them all by the end of the game are low. However, if you want to win, you should use a multi-part strategy of concentrating firepower against the most deadly ones, ignoring the least deadly ones, and then tying up anything shooty in assault wherever possible to simply lock them down for long periods of time.

 

- Take weapons that can put wounds on the bugs. Heavy and assault weapons. This is where MEQ killing firepower like plasma and meltaguns are much better than flamers.

 

- Lastly, make sure you have enough marines.

 

:(