Mycroft Holmes Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I have a friend who plays Demons... and gets crushed. My Marines and Orks seem to slaughter him to the last man and another friend's Tau seem to beat up on him pretty badly as well. To us, it seems like the biggest issue is the fact that everything must deepstrike and presents tasty targets to shoot/assault before they can really get an attack going. I'm planning to go to the Chicago Adepticon Tournament this year and my question is: What should I fear in a Demon army? Am I missing their strengths? Do they have amazing special characters? Should everything be deepstriked next to my units? SHould my opponent deepstrike everything at range and then charge everything at once? Any information about strong Demon armies would be appretiated. Mycroft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Typically the best deamon armies tend to be slannesh, but lets face it, none of them are a walk in the park. There is the typical dual-lash list that springs to mind... I think what you need to do is to borrow the codex for a couple of days and have a read... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Mal, that's CSM, not daemons...... Unless you're talking about pavane, in which case we can get a lot more than 2 on the field, but it sucks without oblit backup. Things to fear in a daemon army are the big buggers, greater daemons and princes. Nurgle princes are especially tough, since they wound everything on a 2+ and have T6, and usually wings. The greater daemons are tough, but not invincible, just keep hitting them with high strength weapons 'til they die. Your basic daemon troops are a mixed bunch, bloodletters and daemonettes are lethal in combat but die like flies to even basic weaponry, horrors are a bit more survivable but cost a lot and don't have an amazing damage output, they are a good supporting unit though, plaguebearers are nigh indestuctible but can't kill a damn thing. Best options here is volume of fire, high AP weapons won't make a difference, since they all have invulnerable saves. I've never some across another daemon army in a tourney, since I don't go to many, but as far as I know they usually have greater daemons, princes/soulgrinders, lots of troops and often some screamers for anti-tank, on the subject of screamers if they are within 18" of one of your static firebase tanks at the start of your turn, run away or kill them, meltabombs hurt tanks badly, especially when they're mounted on what amounts to a jetbike with a 4++ save. If you have any more specific questions I'll be happy to help to the best of my ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 D'oh yup your right... its the Masque + heralds, I think you can get that abality 6 times per turn... not sure if greater deamons can have it too.. if they can then 9 times per turn.... Expect them to get into combat as and when they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 3 times on the Masque, 3 more for 3 more heralds, and 3 on 3 princes, 9 a turn, but like I said, it's useless, if you're using it you aren't fleeting, which is what you want to be doing with anything other than the Masque, it really is an overrated ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinholt Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 The meanest demon list I have seen versus marines tends to be the Nurgle Plague Tally list. Expect multiple princes early to try to drive the casualty count up, along with large blocks of plaguebearers that are relatively resistant to bolter fire. The key will be to cripple the most killy pieces of their army to render them into nothing more than a tarpit force and keep the tally count low, or if you get the chance, to cheap shot Epidemus at some point and simply remove the threat (especially if you have some nice deep striking units as well). I'm sure there are more in-depth discussions on it, but ultimately, you need to be able to very rapidly prioritize what is a real threat that makes the army tick and what is ultimately a diseased, oozing, pustulent distraction. Following closely on the heels of this list are super-fast Slaanesh lists, as referenced above, because they can deep strike far from you and cover the distance the next turn to lay the beatdown on your squads. Another list where knowing what can reach you and what to blow up first matters quite a bit. Daemons, from what I have seen, are an army that is lethal in the hands of a good player against someone who does not know the army well, but much less dangerous against a player who understands the ins and outs of the army, because they are not flexible (virtually all of their units are specialists, so you know what they want to do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I haven't seen a Demon list in action yet, but from looking at it, here's what I'd do: 1) Use LARGE troop squads with Bloodletters and Daemonettes. They're going to take casualties before they can do anyting, so if you want them to have any impact on the game, you need numbers. No tournament army build has the ability to handle two huge troop squads on the same turn. While a 50% depleted squad of either is still capable of shredding any other infantry squad it meets. 2) Demon Princes, Soul Grinders, and Greater Demons, especially the winged kind can ruin you army's day. Either as tank hunters, small squad hunters, or in support of your regular demons. Use them! 3) Plaguebringers are amazing objective holders in your home deployment zone. 4) A demon army is all about being aggressive. If you aren't aggressive, you are going to get cut to pieces. Standing and shooting seems to be suboptimal with most units. This is all theory based on what the units CAN do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 From my own experience a fiend and MC heavy slaanesh army is pretty tough, only taking two small units of troops to satisfy Force Org and to hold objectives if needed. Some things we noticed in games though were: a : Getting good deepstike rolls and choosing where to deepstrike is half the battle won b : Decent amount of scenery/cover within move and charge range of enemy, you dont want to get shot up for more than a turn. Slaanesh rending also means that S5 fiends can kill dreadnoughts! and usually did when we played! each fiend has 2 wounds and can put out 6 attacks each on the charge, 3 units of these and a few greater deamons/deamon princes are really hard to deal with in a turn or two of shooting. I havent manged to beat this army yet! GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 heres something to watch out for, 6 khorne juggernauts, two 10 women(?) squads of daemonettes and three soul grinders plus masque. so far in the GW i go to that list has been unbeatable. seriously the daemonettes with icons keep the juggernauts on target when they arrive and the soul grinders, well lets just say they paste their walls with marine blood. so far i find daemons unfair and extremely cheesey, i mean edam cheesey. their flamers are going about saying: no armour save and i wound on 3+ (4+ can't mind) and its an assault weapon that i can deep strike next to you, that can go take a running jump and be ditched. all daemons are fearless which can also piss off and remember dispite their invunerables being low, they are still getting them which means their better than armour saves. so lets look at this: i have to deploy my entire army and lose a turn of shooting, now my opponent has clear shots at my weakest points and will be charging on turn 2 quite easily and thats rending me apart the soul grinders see of any shaken and stunned and pummel my tanks and any straglers. daemons are not competitive and if you can find a competitive list in the daemon codex please e-mail it to me, i would to see it, cause i can tell you, no-one in the GW i go to knows of one (and they are very experienced with no little kids around) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 454, first off, flamers do wound on a 4+, not a 3+. Second, no offence, but that isn't a very good list in 5th ed, only 2 small scoring units? T3 5++ scoring units at that! Just kill the 'nettes and the guy can't win, not to mention it only has a grand total of 30 models, really not all that great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waaanial00 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 My firends evil army of nurgle is at the moment undefeated, it rocks up something like this... Tallyman Special nurgle Daemon that spores nurglings Beasts of nurgle TONNES of nurglings This army beat my 1000 point marine army and a couple of other ones I know of. Its a little evil. The Tallyman sits in a large unit of nurglings relatively free from harm whilst the tide of nurglings, ok they may be weak and have no FNP but they are multi wound per base and they can take a lot of them, crash against the enemy marking up the talley and meaning that they get more dangerous every turn. It took me ages to break his nurgle beasts with my commander and assault squad whilst my tacticals were gunning his other squads down but there were just too many of them to kill before they enveloped and evenually killed all my guys. Fear this army even though you may laugh at the individual weakness of nurglings. Wan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Waaanial00, please tell me you meant plaguebearers and not beasts! That army has no scoring units! As long as you aren't playing KP missions, just take an objective and hold it at all costs, and if you are playing KP, just kill all those single nurgling bases the big guy is spawning, you'll get a KP for each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waaanial00 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Literally straight after posting this I realised this, he has been wiping out armies in a glibbering mass of Nurgle so I hadnt noticed untill I posted it that he had 0 scoring units. Oh well at least I know how to beat him now. Still an annoying army to fight because he just ends up murderring your troops at a frightening rate, it matters not that he has no scoring untis when you have nothing left on the board. Wan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 How is getting the tally up so quickly? With only one model that can do serious damage, and everything being slow(except the nurglings, but they aren't very good in combat) it shouldn't be too hard to out manouvre him, deny him kills and shoot Ku'gath (the big guy), he's your only real threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinholt Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 That does sound relatively easy to defeat. My thoughts: - He's slow. You could play your entire game never letting him assault you if you mechanize your troops (or bikes, or jump packs), and play like a Ravenwing army by picking him apart until delivering the killing blow. - He's got no scoring units at all. If you can, just keep your troops in reserve so he doesn't have time to kill them before the game ends, and you are almost going to win by default. - He's using nurglings. Lots of template weapons will demolish him. Take three vindicators or a few whirlwinds and watch him cry tears of frustration and shame as you wipe out his entire army in two or three turns. - He's totally hosed if you use the right tools to get to the tally man himself... TH/SS terminators, preferably in a land raider to tank shock the nurglings out of the way. They will demolish nurglings, and have a 3++ save if he gets the tally up, and if they get their hands on the tally man himself... goodnight. Some combination of those tactics should hose him badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 i just got a more accruate amount of what the khorne/slannesh army has: 12 juggernauts, 24 daemonettes, 3 soul grinders and the masque. they are all spilt up ito squads, 3 juggernaut squads, 2 daemonettes and the rest is obvious. basicly the record for anyone going against him is 2 soul grinders, the masque, a squad and a bit of daemonettes and maybe a juggernaut. trust me this is madness, he deep strikes in with the soul grinds and masque, and basicly using the mask he draws out your units and the soul grinders get target practice. the juggernauts and daemonettes are for your troops, and thus it doesn't matter about objectives. however i do believe i have an idea, maybe taking alot of the same idea, basicly if you know the list, mimick it in a sence. i mean i'm thinking about taking (getting! ;) ) 30 TH/SS termys backed by lysander with about 2 scout squads of cheapnest so that the termys deep strike (kept out of harms way) and i take a turn after him to negate a turn of shooting. then if the soul charges me, no big deal i have 3+ invuns i'm sure i can ride the storm, which is also the plan for juggernauts. basicly with daemons they aim for annilation all the time, watch out for their nasty CC units and well, pray. so far if your playing the guy i have told yous about then if he has his entire army down by turn 3, just give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 454, 30 termies will cost about 1600 points if I remember right, and still only have one wound each, I feel that there may be better uses for all those points. Try a fast moving list, lots of bikes and rhino mounted tacs, use your speed to your advantage, and try and take out the masque first, with only 2 wounds and T3 she goes down relatively fast, though admittedly her 3++ save doesn't help. But yeah, fast moving units will help you out a lot, try and avoid his units and gun down as many as possible, take the daemonettes out straight after the masque, so that in objective games he can't take any, and just try and avoid the bloodcrushers if you can. A couple of preds might help too, give them lascannons to take down his soulgrinders, as he has very limited anti-tank. Edit- Maybe a landraider, the only thing that can hurt it in his whole army is the soulgrinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Chaos_Brute Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Beat the Daemon player at their own game-take drop pods and try for 2nd turn. A couple crusaders will do great as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.