ninjabat Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 HQ- Daemon Prince (Kjartan the cruel) Wings, Mark of Nurgle, Warptime Total-175 Troops- Squad 1=plague marines x6 Plague champion, Meltagun x2, Rhino transport Total-231 Squad 2=plague marines x6- Plague champion, Meltagun x2, Rhino transport Total-231 Squad 3=plague marines x6 Plague champion, Flamer x2, Rhino transport Total-221 Squad 4=plague marines x6 Plague champion, Flamer x2, Rhino transport Total-221 Heavy Support- vindicator 1 Daemonic possession, Twinlinked bolter Total- 150 Vindicator 2 same as above Total- 150 Vindicator 3- same as first Total- 150 Summoned daemons- Great Unclean one-100 HQ-Daemon Prince-(Uhtredarwae-uhtred the wicked in norse) Wings, Mark of Nurgle, Warptime Total-175 Squad 5=plague marines x6- Plague champion, Meltagun x2, Rhino transport Total-231 Grand total-1989 hehe, ok now i think i have all of the kinks worked out, at least as far as the rules are concerned. now i just need the gaming experience From what i have read in this tactica the death guard are much different from the tau in playing style. although i imagine playing mech dg is much the same movement wise as mech tau, just in the opposite direction. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 The only thing I'd recommend is ditching the Greater Daemon. The 100 PT price tag is a lie; you have to pay the cost of the Champion he eats up, too. You'd be much better off using the points to upgrade the Plague Champions, instead. You'd also be better off with another Daemon Prince, if you'd rather another monstrous creature be in your army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjabat Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 alright, thanks. . .what would you reccommend i get with the extra 100 points, since that isn't enough to get another pm squad and i have rhinos for each squad already thank you for the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 Powerfists for the champions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjabat Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 cool, thanks, so squads 1 through 4 get powerfists, and squad 5 gets a chainsword or powersword depending on my points requirements at the time. HQ- Daemon Prince (Kjartan the cruel) Wings, Mark of Nurgle, Warptime Total-175 Troops- Squad 1=plague marines x6 Plague champion, powerfist Meltagun x2, Rhino transport Total-256 Squad 2=plague marines x6- Plague champion powerfist, Meltagun x2, Rhino transport Total-256 Squad 3=plague marines x6 Plague champion, powerfist Flamer x2, Rhino transport Total-246 Squad 4=plague marines x6 Plague champion, powerfist Flamer x2, Rhino transport Total-246 Heavy Support- vindicator 1 Daemonic possession, Twinlinked bolter Total- 150 Vindicator 2 same as above Total- 150 Vindicator 3- same as first Total- 150 HQ-Daemon Prince-(Uhtredarwae-uhtred the wicked in norse) Wings, Mark of Nurgle, Warptime Total-175 Squad 5=plague marines x6- Plague champion, Meltagun x2, Rhino transport Total-231 Grand total-1989 one other question, does modeling putty you need to cook at 275 for 5 minutes to harden work on plastic minis, or do i need to break down and buy some green stuff this saturday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 Greenstuff. Also, maybe buy a pair of flamers, and use the excess points for another fist for Squad 5? Otherwise, no need for a champion. Leave the squad at home, on an objective, with a pair of plasma guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjabat Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 unfortunately getting rid of my meltas wont enable me to get a powerfist, but i will switch to flamers anyway. thank you for all the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Well then, I guess I'm ready to rock :P Chaos Sorcerer MoN wings Wind of Chaos 170 7x plague marines 2 plasma rifles rhino 226 pts 7x plague marines 2 plasma rifles rhino 226 pts 7x plague marines champ upgrade powerfist 2 meltas rhino 256 pts 7x plague marines champ upgrade powerfist 2 meltas rhino 256 pts Chaos Defiler 150 pts, Heavy Flamer CCW (only tactica I hear is from 4chan's experience, which is shoot into closecombat savagry :/) Obliterator Cult 3 Obliterators 225 pts I get 1584 out of this...wow :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 Defilers launch screaming mudkips at the foe. Honestly, I'd be worried about a single Defiler surviving beyond Turn 2. He'll probably never see close combat, alas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 so what do you recommend I take as my third Heavy choice and equip the Defiler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 Either another Defiler, or three more Obliterators. And drop the Heavy Flamers from the Defilers.. If he becomes immobilized, you still want him to be able to do damage, and an autocannon will allow that. All a Heavy Flamer does is occasionally deny you a charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 So Defiler with Auto and CCW, a Second Defiler Auto CCW It sounds good, I love the Defiler look too I'm actually contemplating throwing a Greater Demon in, just because I'm bored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglephill Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 OK, the thing i have been thinking about most of all is why do you take any unit other than PM's.....to do what PM's can't. What they Can't do VERY well is assault. I mean they can deal with most troops some specialist troops etc etc but i have found it to be a real slow grind (especially if the squad doesnt have a fist....i know, they should never be in combat! i'm still new to playing them ) when left to slog through a squad of marines for example. HQ DP 175pts MoN, Wings, Warptime Chaos Lord 185pts MoN, Bike, twin lightning Claws, plasma pistol(?) Troops 7 PM 226pts 2 plasma rhino 7 PM 226pts 2 plasma rhino 7 PM 226pts 2 plasma rhino Fast Attack 9 bikers 442 Champ, Fist, Plasma pistol IoN, 2 Melta guns 1480 The PM's excel at short ranged fire fights, so thats what i have built them to do, the rhinos give them the ability to A) get in range and :) provide cover. The bikes (with Lord) and the DP are hard hitting assault units that should be able to deal with most things (right?) and if the PM's do find themselves in assault or if the tactical situation dictates they should assault, they will be hard to kill and should live long enough for me to be able to send the bikes or DP to help them finish off their opponent. So how does it look? Do you think that having only the basic PM unit (focussed on fire fights) through out is a good idea? Do you think the bikes, lord and DP make up for their lack of combat punch? Would different units do this better? anyway, thoughts please....even if it is....shut up phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 My first approach to handling the list is to blow away your Prince and shred your Bikes with a Prince of my own. After that, sending Powerfist plague marines with meltas into assault with your plasma squads, along with another Prince for support, would let me grind your fistless squads away in no time. Demolisher Shells would also execute several. You really need some kind of close combat squad to support the bikes and Prince. Plagues with double-flamers would be swell, or maybe some meltas. Aside from the Prince and bikes, you have no real way to handle several vehicles rushing in your face. One Prince may stick his neck out and rip up one, but he'd be gunned down. The bikes will be food for S8 blasts, and Demolisher/Battlecannon shots. They're a fair force to keep in reserve, but they're not as hard-hitting and indestructible as you may think. Also, a horde of as many as 120 bodies will swamp your army hopelessly. They may not kill you, but they'll keep you busy all day long if you have no flamers or blasts to thin them down before they show up on your doorstep. You'll win in a gunline VS gunline fight against Tactical Marines, but.. who cares about them, anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devaroze Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 DemetriiTZ you underestimate how strong the bikers are, with both the icon of nurgle and the toughness bonus from having their bike the demon prince would have a tough time taking out all 9 of them. The PF and 2 meltas would tear him down pretty fast if they were to assault him first. The only thing I see wrong with his list is the lack of anti-tank, trade out a couple plasma guns for meltas, mabey throw in a champion with melta grenades or a lascannon predator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 9 Nurgle Bikers are inferior in every way to a Nob Biker squad. Believe me, they'll fold. Bikers are a cool squad to field, but they're much less effective than Loyalist variants, and it doesn't really have anything to do with player skill. They can hit hard, but for the same amount of points, you could field two or three Plague Marine squads in Rhinos, which would be much harder to counter, would serve the same anti-tank purpose, and would be able to score, while never running the risk of losing their Icon. Aside from the bikes (which I doubt you'll want to give up), you really need some flamers or blasts from somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 Also, drop the plasma pistol from your bike champion. Plasma pistols are NEVER worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 And no, I don't underestimate them. Plenty of people run them, thinking T4(6) bikes are a good idea, around these parts. Two Princes with Warptime, MoN, and Wings (350 points) will shred those bikes in a single assault, and cost less than they do, while soaking more firepower and being immune to instadeath, hitting harder in assault, and even serving anti-tank duties. The reason pure Nurgle armies usually look like a spamming of Plague Marines in Rhinos, with a few heavy hitters for HQs, and some powerful guns in the Heavy Slots, with almost no Elites or Fast Attack choices, is simply because the few useful FA and Elite choices are not "more" useful when given an Icon (and in most cases, actually become LESS useful). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos_Minds Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 And why did you take 9 bikers? Isn't 7 fluffier and more cost effective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglephill Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 hmmm. ok. I went with the bike idea 'cos i AM gonna be making a squad of bikes (and 7 is fluffy-er than 10 but the more in a squad the cheaper the icon becomes!) and the reason is, they are COOL! I will also be making 14 raptors and 14 chosen (with lots more PM's) and lots of termies. I want to go apoc with my DG army and i know they are PM heavy as i have read ALL the fluff there is to read. but with 120-150 PM's 14 bikes/ raptors and chosen (oh and havocs!) does seem to me a good balance. anyway to get back to the list, as i build these cool units i want to play with them so i am trying to find the best way to do it. It does look like there really isnt a good way though :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Bikes, on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being useless, and 10 being super-effective for the points, are a 6. 1. They're durable versus small arms fire, but get nuked by anything S8 or nastier. AP2 vapes 'em also, so plasma and.. err.. LOADS of stuff in an IG or Eldar army will microwave them in a turn or two. A Prince can, at least, survive comparable levels of small arms fire, and still stand up to plasma and lascannons (which would instakill a bike). 2. Demolisher cannons and Battlecannons will wreck a bike squad caught in the open, and bikes take dangerous terrain tests if caught in terrain (for cover).. So, unless you're very good at hiding them, they get shot up badly. On top of that, more time spent hiding them means less effective use of their mobility. 3. They are a somewhat effective melee assault and counter-assault unit, and can function as anti-tank, but if they're shooting, they're probably out in the open, because a smart foe is going to keep his important stuff out of their little hiding spots to force you to come into the open if you want a shot or two at him. 4. They can turboboost and be kept in reserves to contest objectives late in the game, but with a squad running you 500+ points with a Lord, that's more than a third of your army in a 1500 point game, and it REALLY hurts if you lose that squad in one round of shooting. Bikes would be good, if daemon princes were not available, or if they were scoring units, like Loyalist bikes. We got shafted by the Codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglephill Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I do hear what your saying. But I will make them and use them, just for the fun of it really :lol:. It seems to me the only good nurgle unti is a unit of PM's. Termies equiped correctly do ok as to DP's but after that things get a little....poor. I dont see why you cant run a death guard army with every unit have PM's. expensive, yes. but fluffy and fun too :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroplane Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 This thread is awesome! Thanks!! demetriiTZ, I was wondering if you have any small bits of advice and/or general tactica on using the 3 Vindicators that you have hinted at. Also wondering if you have tried 3 defilers in a similar way and can comment on them. BTW, thanks to your tactica, you have inspired me to do a complete Death Guard army, with a pair of DP to lead them. I am having a complete blast modeling and painting everything, and am getting to the heavy slots, and rather unsure where to go with them. (I.E. triple vindi, triple defiler, or something really pedestrian like 2 preds and a handful of oblits...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 More advice will likely be forthcoming on the Vindicators, but for now... Vindicators are not the mass murderers they were in 4E, due to the huge amount of cover saves in today's games. However, they land hits a lot more frequently to make up for the cover saves, which balances stuff out. You will occasionally catch a foe's squad in the open, and annihilate him, but more often than not, what your Vindicators will end up doing is drawing fire, chasing foes into cover, and pinning him down inside the cover once he's arrived. So, primarily, your Vindicators will be (as has often been stated) functioning as 'area denial', and 'cripplers'. They devastate anything you catch in the open, they threaten Toughness 5 with instant death, and they can smash any vehicle in the game, but because of cover saves, a single shell will probably not be decisive with much frequency. Instead, you'll be wanting to stack blasts on top of the same target, making sure that whatever you intend to be dead can be lined up for a shot from all three Vindicators. This usually causes a rather withering amount of wounds, which will either destroy (or reduce to near-death) any squad, entrenched in cover or not, or else force the squad to Go To Ground, in order to increase their survivability. This allows your Daemon Princes to swoop in and finish the foe off while encamped in cover, as a squad which has Gone To Ground no longer receives the benefits of being in cover in terms of the Initiative bonus. In other words, pin foes down for your Princes to finish them off, obliterate vehicles and squads in the open, and/or use the combined Vindicator threat to 'chase' foes where you wish them to be, or else keep them from approaching any areas you would rather occupy. Finally, a Vindicator in cover, flanked by Rhinos, is an almost impenetrable wall of armor, and can absorb a STAGGERING amount of lascannon fire. Therefore, as a Vindicator is most effective when moving 6'' per turn and firing the heavy cannon, and is most durable in cover, you will wish to equip Vindicators with a dozer blade and Daemonic Possession, ensuring fully half of the enemy's ranged tank-hunter penetration rolls are ignored, and ensuring those which DO manage to land will have only a 50% chance of silencing your big gun. This makes your Vindicator draw much more firepower, and allows your Plague Marines and Daemon Princes to operate with greater impunity. Make no mistake, however; the primary task of a Vindicator is to ensure Plague Marines make it to the enemy. In the end, they serve the same primary purpose as a Land Raider. You can simply field more of them with less points, and their armament is more versatile (coming at the cost of being disabled with a single weapon destroyed result). Happy hunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rao Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Nurglephill, do realise that your approach seems to be geared towards which units/models you find FUN to model/paint/field, rather than what's the most EFFECTIVE, which is the prime focus of Demetriiz (pls correct me if I'm wrong, Deme). Deme has written this entire tactica from that perspective, as is only right - for a TACTICA. On the subject of tactics for a Vindi, what you've just posted seems to cover all bases, Deme. I'd love to hear what else you have to add, but this seems pretty comprehensive. Compliments on this thread, it's soooooo ace. Thanks! LR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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