The Nephilim Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I've seen a lot of marines, mostly loyalist scum, recently ducking behind cover on their base, diving behind walls, etc. At first, I gotta admit I thought it looked great and then was pissed off. Damn it! You *bleep*-ing *bleep*-s exploiting the *bleep*-ing rules! And the rant when on as a hollow monologue until I realized you were actually hurting yourself. For a model to shoot another model, you must use the model's view. The BGB clearly states this as looking from the model's eyes. This would only be advantageous at certain heights, not to mention unsportsmanly. So while you loyalist scum are ducking behind cover "avoiding" getting shot, my based CSM's will proudly stand over your cowering marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I've lost count of the amount of times I've thought that when people have been talking about "hiding" models, the rules are like the definition of "double-edged sword". You want to hide? Be my guest, I'll just ordnance your ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyyman Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Yes. This thing has been mentioned many times in B&C, and so as Malachi said, it's double-edged sword. If they get cover, they won't see others neither. And yes, just blast them with Vindicator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 mmmm vindicator... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogstaff Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I question if the OP has seen anything like that at all, especially since it's been chaos models with their eyes on 6" antennae as the hypothetical 'abuse of LoS rules' model. Big yawn, as far as rants go. People keep complaining about the potential for abuse, but I can't really recall hearing good examples of it actually happening. Certainly, the OP has never seen 'lots of marines' modeled that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nephilim Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 I question if the OP has seen anything like that at all, especially since it's been chaos models with their eyes on 6" antennae as the hypothetical 'abuse of LoS rules' model. Big yawn, as far as rants go. People keep complaining about the potential for abuse, but I can't really recall hearing good examples of it actually happening. Certainly, the OP has never seen 'lots of marines' modeled that way. It's all over the BC. It's not hard to find. ...especially since it's been chaos models with their eyes on 6" antennae as the hypothetical 'abuse of LoS rules' model. I've yet to see anyone model a CSM like that. Not to mention the amount of ridicule that player would receive and probably be banned from his group the moment he tried something like that. People keep complaining about the potential for abuse, but I can't really recall hearing good examples of it actually happening. I agree, but I don't like the fact that with the new rules, people can argue. That's the point of the rant. Certainly, the OP has never seen 'lots of marines' modeled that way. See response number one: I question if the OP has seen anything like that at all, especially since it's been chaos models with their eyes on 6" antennae as the hypothetical 'abuse of LoS rules' model. Big yawn, as far as rants go. People keep complaining about the potential for abuse, but I can't really recall hearing good examples of it actually happening. Certainly, the OP has never seen 'lots of marines' modeled that way. It's all over the BC. It's not hard to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I've seen a lot of marines, mostly loyalist scum, recently ducking behind cover on their base, diving behind walls, etc. At first, I gotta admit I thought it looked great and then was pissed off. Damn it! You *bleep*-ing *bleep*-s exploiting the *bleep*-ing rules! Yeah i agree. They shouldnt exploit rules...or dodge swear filters :) Its really not an issue, LOS goes both ways, and as a loyalist 'scum' player myself, i take pride in my guys standing proud in thier blue armour ready to deliver the Emperors justice on the Heretics and traitors..No hiding behind scenery for me...no sir... GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reglor Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I've seen a lot of marines, mostly loyalist scum, recently ducking behind cover on their base, diving behind walls, etc. At first, I gotta admit I thought it looked great and then was pissed off. Damn it! You *bleep*-ing *bleep*-s exploiting the *bleep*-ing rules! And the rant when on as a hollow monologue until I realized you were actually hurting yourself. For a model to shoot another model, you must use the model's view. The BGB clearly states this as looking from the model's eyes. This would only be advantageous at certain heights, not to mention unsportsmanly. So while you loyalist scum are ducking behind cover "avoiding" getting shot, my based CSM's will proudly stand over your cowering marines. The BRB deals with this. On pg 21 it says "Senic rocks and other decorative elements the players might have placed on the base of their models are always ignored from the point of view of deremining cover (you cannot take your cover with you!)" So if they are modeled as ducking behind cover that is on their base, ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disistablishmentarianism Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I've seen a lot of marines, mostly loyalist scum, recently ducking behind cover on their base, diving behind walls, etc. At first, I gotta admit I thought it looked great and then was pissed off. Damn it! You *bleep*-ing *bleep*-s exploiting the *bleep*-ing rules! And the rant when on as a hollow monologue until I realized you were actually hurting yourself. For a model to shoot another model, you must use the model's view. The BGB clearly states this as looking from the model's eyes. This would only be advantageous at certain heights, not to mention unsportsmanly. So while you loyalist scum are ducking behind cover "avoiding" getting shot, my based CSM's will proudly stand over your cowering marines. The BRB deals with this. On pg 21 it says "Senic rocks and other decorative elements the players might have placed on the base of their models are always ignored from the point of view of deremining cover (you cannot take your cover with you!)" So if they are modeled as ducking behind cover that is on their base, ignore it. This is how I would've expected most people to interpret it, it's purely for aesthetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelmage99 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 And one must keep in mind the modeling aspect of this. An example; I have pre-ordered several of the new Ork Stormboys. I absolutely hate jumppack troops mounted as if jumping/leaping. I will most certainly cut off the "jump-stands" and mount then directly on the bases. This will indeed gain me a tactical advantage as my models will be harder to draw LOW to than before and it will in all likelihood be easier for me to claim coversaves. This is done purely from a modeling stand point. I know that some whiner will at some point claim that I have done so to gain an in-game advantage. This kind of narrow interpretation of my motives is something I can expect to be exposed to, but in the end I alone can say for certain why it was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameal2007 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I always used a direct line between base and base, and any cover in the way came second because you can never get a true reading on what a model may be seeing... *shrugs*. Each to their own, I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelmage99 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Couldn't you say......stoop down over the tabel for a 'model's eye view'? (this happens to be a direct quote from the rulebook on how to draw line of sight) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogstaff Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I question if the OP has seen anything like that at all, especially since it's been chaos models with their eyes on 6" antennae as the hypothetical 'abuse of LoS rules' model. Big yawn, as far as rants go. People keep complaining about the potential for abuse, but I can't really recall hearing good examples of it actually happening. Certainly, the OP has never seen 'lots of marines' modeled that way. It's all over the BC. It's not hard to find. Links please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetEzekial Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Do a search on your own. They shouldn't have to proide links for any such 'easy' finds. (though it can be helpful, should they include them as references when making such claims) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniclurker Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 This rant, which is not even close to being a discussion about rules, is pointless. You haven't seen plenty of people modelling this way. I declare shenanigans. It's especially ignorant to try to fling this at any particular army. Saying that loyalist players do this more than chaos is just plain unfounded. Hell, the first time I'd even heard of this kind of crap was 'low-crawling' khorne berzerkers. This is garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogstaff Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Do a search on your own. They shouldn't have to proide links for any such 'easy' finds. (though it can be helpful, should they include them as references when making such claims) It's not up to me to prove someone else's claim. The onus is on them. I glanced in the Hall of Honor and WIP subboards, and saw no evidence of these abusively modeled marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetEzekial Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 No, you don't have to prove another person's claims, for everyone else. But, if there's apparently so many, an easy search, on one's own, should be enough to satisfy their own curiosity about the matter, rather than being lazy. One could then respond, stating they've done that tiny amount of leg work, and have failed to see any evidence of such abuses (as you do, now, at the end of your responce above). (though again, It does help and argument to post, atleast some, links to reference, Nep ;)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I question if the OP has seen anything like that at all, especially since it's been chaos models with their eyes on 6" antennae as the hypothetical 'abuse of LoS rules' model. Big yawn, as far as rants go. People keep complaining about the potential for abuse, but I can't really recall hearing good examples of it actually happening. Certainly, the OP has never seen 'lots of marines' modeled that way. It's all over the BC. It's not hard to find. Shouldn't be too hard to link to then, should it? I had a tour of the PC&A, and no, nary a hiding marine. Unless, of course, they were doing such a great job of hiding... ;) RoV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praeger Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Im not even going to explain why this one is now closed. If you have issues with its closure, PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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