Sniper scouts and minimum numbers

[ExarPucc]

I want to lead this off that this is merely thoerycrafting and conjecture, and not based of solid tried and true methods of actual gaming. With that said...

 

I've been pouring over and over the numbers for scouts with sniper rifles. What I'm finding more and more is that in a game, using sniper scouts as a troop filler for one slot is not effective nor efficient use of points. However, I'm seeing that when used in a 2+ number the benefits start to go up more than one would expect.

 

For the sake of saying that you have 20 sniper scouts on the table.

 

If they all have LOS at a target, you're talking 10 hits, 5 wounds, 1.67 of which are rending. Against non-invul mobs, that's at least 1 dead MEQ and a pinned squad a turn. If you manage to spread that out, say via combat squadding you have 4 potential targets.

 

If you factor in Telion, it's an addition shot a turn, and you're claiming the wound allocation if his hits go through. See that pesky commisar keeping that conscript squad on the table. Or how about that hidden power claw in that mob of boyz.

 

With 30 snipers, you'll be managing 15 hits, 7.5 wounds with 2.5 rends at 3/6 targets.

 

With only 10 snipers, you're seeing 5 hits, 2.5 wounds, and .83 rends.

 

 

Now there are two counter points that need to be addressed. First, how survivable are said scouts. Second, how expensive are they and what could those points get you else where.

 

Are those potential rending hits worth their cost? Without cloak, you're looking at 140 points. 170 with cloaks giving them 3+ save in cover. Being able to shrug off 90% of ranged weapons 66% of the time is quite nice. If squads start getting to close, focus fire them and pin them. Poof, you're safe for a little while.

 

For cost concerns, 170 points could net you a 10 man Tact squad with flamer and ML/MM. Nice, effective, but average at best. People say the greatest asset of the SM list is that diversity your standard tact marine and offer. While yes, if needed to be thrown into an assault they can. If they need to shoot things, they can. But I see from other army lists and personal success that it isn't the mediocrity of tactical marines that wins me games. It's units that serve specific purposes such as Ironclad dreadnoughts drop podding in and taking out that armor in the first turn. Or sternguard wounding on 2+ and forcing save rolls on that hive tyrant.

 

More and more it seems like it's not being average that wins, it's exploting what little advantages our average troops can obtain!

[greatcrusade08]

clicky

 

This is the tactica in worte up concerning 10th company, it addresses most of your concerns:

 

Snipers are good vs some things, not so good against others, you used MEQ's as your example, but unless you roll well on the rend, you wont kill many, also the enemy rolls a pinning test for every wound caused, MEQ's have high Ld and wont take too many wounds as already discussed.

So to sum up MEQ's are hard to pin, If your going to use them to pin, use them against low LD and poorly armoured troops otherwise they are pretty good against MC's and high toughness creatures as they always wound on 4+

 

Another point you may have missed is Telion gets 2 shots per turn at 36", and put him in a unit of snipers with a heavy bolter with hellfire rounds and you have all sorts of fun combos to try out!.

10 scouts with Telion and cloaks and heavy bolter is 230 points, and whilst this is expensive compared to a 170 tac squad, these scouts are providing a role that cannot be filled by normal marines, THAT should be the real reason for spending heavily with scouts, otherwise just stick to basic 5 man units for 75 points a pop, for a cheap long (ish) range sniper unit that can hold an objective.

 

GC08

[Warp Angel]

Scouts are, based upon what I've been looking at, an effective way to field a Troops choice in smaller games, that still has a chance of affecting Monstrous Creatures.

 

At 750 points, there's a fair chance you're facing something with T6 in most Xeno armies. Bolter fire isn't very effective, but Sniper Rifles are.

 

I'm not sold on survivability, especially in an environment where so many armies can be in CC with you by turn 2. Cover saves do no good in hand to hand. Just ask an Eldar Pathfinder.

 

There's a time and a place for scouts, but I don't believe that it's as a tactical squad replacement in games > 1000.

[greatcrusade08]

There's a time and a place for scouts, but I don't believe that it's as a tactical squad replacement in games > 1000.

 

If your playing a SM army then your right, a 10 man tac squad is 170 points with ML and flamer, for 10 scouts with ML its 150.

Basic marines have better WS, BS and save than scouts, so make for a better tactical unit for about the same points (ish).

As an 'add-on' unit in a SM army you would have to have a role in mind for them, i.e snipers for anti-MC's or infiltrating ccw/shotgun scouts for objective push etc, they are not suitable as direct replacements for marines in a SM army, when you have tac squads available

 

Unless of course your a little crazy like me and want to run a whole scout army :rolleyes:

 

GC08