What assasin would you recomend?

[HelbrechtBT]

I have recently added a Inqusitor leading a group of 2 sister squads to my templar army for a fluff based crusade i am putting together with my gameing group and was wondering, Which assasin qould you guys recomend for this combo? I have on the sisters side only what i have already mentioned. On the templars i have 2 basic 20 man squads sword breatheren and a Marshal so far. What do you guys think?

[Toogeloo]

You cannot go wrong with the Callidus Assassin. With "A Word In Your Ear" and non-scatter deep-strike (and the ability to assault the turn it comes in), it is still one of the deadliest assassins in the game, not counting the fact that it has Five WS5, S4, attacks on the charge and each connected strike does not allow a single save by the opponent.

 

I give a close second to Culexus Assassin as you can potentially run your opponent off the board during shooting phases by forcing leadership tests with his Soulless effect, or the Vindicare who can almost reliably kill one annoying single wound model (Power Fist, Banner Bearer, Apothecary, etc.) and more than likely disable a vehicle as well (3+3d6 armor pen +1 on the vehicle damage chart with an AP1 weapon).

[Aidoneus]

I'll agree with the Callidus. Word in Your Ear has to be the single most useful special ability in the game! Don't forget her AP1 flamer either. Always fun when you can position yourself absolutely perfectly to use it. Just be careful where you aim her. She's remarkably fragile (as are all assassins), so she either needs to be aimed at a squad that is very weak in CC (dev squad, for instance) or be assisted by your other units (flamer and charge the unit that your swords brothers are charging).

 

I don't like the Vindicare at all. He hits on a 2+, but only wounds on a 4+, which means he wounds less than one model every 2 turns. Add to the the fact that he still allows cover saves (albeit reduced by 1), and he's down to killing maybe 2 models per game, on a good day. Oh, and don't forget that those are wounds, not kills, so don't expect to take down characters, or even nobz or tyranid warriors or oblits. Will you occasionally get off a lucky shot and kill something important? Yes. Can you ever rely on doing so? Absolutely not.

 

The Culexus doesn't appeal to me all that much. Sure, the Ld 7 bubble is nice, but that's about all he has going for him. Against psykers he's nice, but most of the time I'd actually rather take them out with a Callidus or Eversor. If you try to run people off the board with this guy, your enemy just has to shoot him a couple times. T4, 2W, and a 4+ save will not save you from anything!

 

The Eversor is decent if used in conjunction with other units, or to ambush something isolated. Basically, you're hoping he can devastate one thing that's worth more points than he is before he dies. This might be a Carnifex, isolated dev squad, whatever. He'd better kill it off first round though, because like all assassins he's fragile, and can't withstand the hits back.

[Brother Icipher]

I'm rather partial to the Eversor. He's the cheapest one, and he can wreck a fair bit of havoc in the opponents deployment zone, forcing them to divert resources to kill him, at which point he asplodes! I think the exploding ability is particularly useful, as you can go into a suicide assault, and even if he gets blatted, he will still make a mess. He's fun.

 

The Vindicare, as has been pointed out, can't kill enough models over the course of a game to justify his cost. Hitting on 2+ and wounding on 4+ means that he is unlikely to be able to kill even one multi wound model over the course of a game.

 

The Culexus is pretty awesome for the Ld effects it has, but remember that they apply to you also! (Although, with BT, that may not be such a bad thing...?). He's particularly wacky against anyone with multiple psychers, especially if you take an Inquisitor with a bunch of Seers in his retinue, as the Animus Speculum becomes a brutal weapon.

 

We all know why the Callidus is cool, so I won't worry about covering it. In the end, it sort of depends what role you want the assassin to fulfill and how many points you want to spend. If you want a combat monster, go with the Eversor. If you want something tricky, go with the Callidus. If you have trouble with psychers, get the Culexus.

[Onisuzume]

Eversor.

Even in death he's a threat.

And he's the cheapest assassin. (not counting death cultists)

[eyescrossed]

You cannot go wrong with the Callidus Assassin. With "A Word In Your Ear" and non-scatter deep-strike (and the ability to assault the turn it comes in), it is still one of the deadliest assassins in the game, not counting the fact that it has Five WS5, S4, attacks on the charge and each connected strike does not allow a single save by the opponent.

 

I give a close second to Culexus Assassin as you can potentially run your opponent off the board during shooting phases by forcing leadership tests with his Soulless effect, or the Vindicare who can almost reliably kill one annoying single wound model (Power Fist, Banner Bearer, Apothecary, etc.) and more than likely disable a vehicle as well (3+3d6 armor pen +1 on the vehicle damage chart with an AP1 weapon).

I believe that's incorrect.

The turbo penetrator is only 3D6 penetration, not 3+3D6, which results in an average penetration roll of 10.5 - oh, and the vindicare's rifle is AP2, not 1.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

The turbo penetrator is only 3D6 penetration, not 3+3D6, which results in an average penetration roll of 10.5 - oh, and the vindicare's rifle is AP2, not 1.

 

Correct on both counts. The Vindicare's Exitus Rifle is still Str X.

[Captain Malachi]

Unless your inquisitor has a psychic hood, I'd go for the culexus, to help shut down enemy psykers.

[Gentlemanloser]

I find all the assassins to be wastes of points.

 

The Culexes, who *really* uses this guy? Sure we might all say he's great against Psykers, but how many Psykers do you tend to face, and how well exactly does the Culexus you included just to face Psykers actually do?

 

The Eversor, while powerful in CC has no delivery method (unless you're really lucky to have terrain that allows you to infiltrate just over 12" away by being out of LoS to your entire opponents army - or close as...), and will get shot to bits before you can use that fabulous 12" charge.

 

AWIYE can be very good. It can be pointless, if you face Eldrad, or anyone with a scout move. But the Cally suffers from one of the largest flaws of the assassins.

 

None of them have Frags.

 

I used a Cally versus a 10 man Squad of Wrathguard (becuase they needed to be tied up to not melt things with thier guns next turn, and they're toot in CC). Unfortunatly for me they were in Cover. I assaulted anyway, and went last. The 6 Wraithguard in range managed to gun butt her to death with thier single attack each, before she got a chance to attack.

 

And the vindicare. You'll want to melt him down when you use his wound on 2 bullet and roll a one on either to hit or to wound. Or fail to cause a single casualty over a 7 turn game with him, while your opponent just ignores him.

 

Not able to ride in transports, not having frags and not being able to contest objectives makes them far to costly to use.

[the_cheat137]

According to the latest WH FAQ, the Vindicare's turbo-penetrator is really good against vehicles (hint: it gets way more than just 3d6!). Here's a link to the FAQ page, the entry is pretty long and definitely worth the look.

 

GW FAQs

[Grand Master Tyrak]

the_cheat137 Posted Today, 03:27 PM

According to the latest WH FAQ, the Vindicare's turbo-penetrator is really good against vehicles (hint: it gets way more than just 3d6!). Here's a link to the FAQ page, the entry is pretty long and definitely worth the look.

 

Gah! Of course, they haven't bothered to put that in the DH FAQ. :D

[Captain Malachi]

Don't worry Tyrak, apparently the FAQs aren't official anyway :D But at least it sets a precedent, if it comes up in a tourney, most judges would rule that the DH assassins follow the same rules as the WH ones. I'm just glad they finally said you can't take a WH inquisitor and use it to take a DH assassin.

[Refyougee]

I used a Cally versus a 10 man Squad of Wrathguard (becuase they needed to be tied up to not melt things with thier guns next turn, and they're toot in CC). Unfortunatly for me they were in Cover. I assaulted anyway, and went last. The 6 Wraithguard in range managed to gun butt her to death with thier single attack each, before she got a chance to attack.

 

You charged (At I1) into a ~400 point T6 S5 10-man group of units with a single S4 T4 2W figure and because you lost that combat, the Callidus is not good? The Assassins are not needed in every army but this is kind of a weak argument. They don't have grenades, which sucks, but you knew this before you charged. Wraithguard are sick but as you said in CC they are terrible. You would have been better off throwing a cheap throwaway squad at them that had more wounds for the points.

 

I agree that the Vindicare and Culexus are not very good, but the Eversor is pretty sweet against monstrous creatures. Also Outflank helps get him into position. He also gets to re-roll wounds against T4 creatures seeing as how he has a poisoned weapon.

 

I still think the Callidus is the best though. AWIYE has so many uses; it doesn't work against EVERY army type (Such as drop pods...but the Inquisitor you purchased to get the Assassin can easily get two Mystics) but I'll be damned if I'll ever have trouble thinking of a good thing to do with it as long as my opponent has a piece on the table.

[Gentlemanloser]

Wraithguard are sick but as you said in CC they are terrible.

 

Isn't that *exactly* the sort of opponent an Imperial CC Assassin should be great versus?

 

The Cally would have been, if she had Frags.

 

But no, it wasn't just that one exmaple, that was the latest. I've used all three (no, no Culexus ever) over the last 2 odd years, to try to bring something different to my GK list, and over the course of it, they've sucked. Always.

 

AWIYE is becoming more devalued with every new Codex. Eldrad, Scout Moves, Daemon DS deployment, Drop Pods. You'll be hard pressed to find an army now that doesn't use some sort of DS/Outflank delpoyment, hell even just holding things back in reserves.

 

Or to top it off.

 

Dawn of War Deployment.

 

Wow, one in three games I get the awesome choice to relocate either one of two Troop Choices, or maybe a HQ, if they're on the board. And that's as long as there's no scouts etc involved.

 

But it's a mass of other flaws that ruin them.

 

The high points cost, the inability to ride in transports, no Frags (that even the CC SM Dread can now have), The no contesting objectives. In 4th it was the inability to hide behind other units due to no IC status, which couplde with no transports made them extremely easy to pick off by enemy fire. Now, it's no kill zone, so your uber CC unit will get hammered by return blows.

 

You're right. In *every* case I'd say you're better off buying a cheap throwaway squad with more wounds than any of the Imperial Assassins.

 

Edit:

 

I suppose I should clarify that I have, on occasion, seen an Assassin do something note worthy. Like a Vindicar take out a hidden powerfist (That would otherwise have eaten a squad in CC), or a Cally appear right where she needed to be and obliterate a critical unit.

 

I've also seen 5 man termy squads die to Bolt Pistols when all 5 armour saves rolled 1's.

 

Edit2:

 

You'll also cry when your supported CC assassin loses a Close Combat, as the enemy concentrated all thier attacks on the supporting unit/s, and the Assassin died to a silly amount of extra wounds due to being Fearless. God I hate the new moral rules...

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yeah I find that aspect of the new morale rules really retarded;

 

Assault Marine Sergeant: Alright, we totally smacked down those stupid Orks! Twelve kills to nothing, suck it up losers!

Scout Sergeant: (kicks the dead corpses of his squad) I said give him the left hook, but no...(flails uselessly with his powerfist, but only bashes down one Ork) damn I better run, but I don't know fear, so no sweeping advance for you!

Nob: Stupid beaky (Sergeants carapace armour fails as the Orks shoot him the back)

Assault Marine Sergeant: What? Oh yes, despite not losing a SINGLE FRAGGING MODEL I too must fall back, cos I was fighting the same giant mob of Fearless Orks (Assault Marines run, three get shot to death in the back).

 

However, the thing that takes the cake is 'Defenders React'

 

Broodlord: Tickle tickle tickle (hits extreme edge of the Tactical squad, just nipping one of the bolter guys)

Tactical Sergeant: Hey look, Genestealers! They totally outclass us in combat, and there's no way we'll possibly win! For the Emperor! Charge!

(Captain looks on with a confused expression as the Tactical squad abandons their post, leaving the precious Chapter relic unguarded as they run into the gleeful Genestealers. Armoured limbs begin flying through the air in complex patterns as the Marines are dismembered before they can blink)

Captain: Sergeant, what the Throne are you doing?

Tactical Sergeant: Following ord... (Captain sees severed head of Sergeant fly through air on plume of blood, as the Broodlord casually destroys the remaining Marines)

Captain: (facepalm)

 

;)

 

 

As for Assassins, it's a toss-up between Callidus or Eversor;

 

Eversor: There's nothing else in 40k that does the same damage for the same points. He's especially good for annhilating T4 heroes (re-rolls to wound) and killing big monsters that have no invulnerable save (Carnifex, Wraithlord) plus he explodes at S5 upon death. No frags sucks but there's a simple solution; don't charge things in cover ;) . He's not cast from metal, he's cast of 'win'.

 

Callidus: 'AWIYE' is a bit more situational now (as Gentlemanloser pointed out, Chaos Daemons, drop pod armies and 'lets be a sissy and hold everything in reserve' players never notice the difference). She's good for tackling backfield static units (like Ork Lootas, Devastators, Havoks), and she's good for hunting the now-ineffective Libby's and Chaplains for Ultramarines (because they're both capped at 4 attacks at I4, plus only two wounds to chew through she's fairly safe). It's especially amusing if they try to hide out in a Terminator unit cos she burns them all, then picks out the I4 hero (no more retinues for you!) and cuts his head off. Mind you though, the Terminators will probably crush her with their powerfists/thunderhammers, but you'll still take the teeth of out them (no more 'Gate' shenanigans with a Libby, and no more re-rolls with a Chaplain).

[GTang]

I like the Culexus, but am admittedly not running it with any sort of "competitive" list. It's tricky to use... here are some things to consider. It's great against Tyranids. Running it near an IL will let the Culexus shoot its three shots while mitigating the negative effects - the IL probably won't make a psychic test or successfully use a hood. Running it near Sisters Repentia, to help the Mistress live and get them to charge. Getting it near enemy units, with LoS blocking vehicles. Then, using your vehicles to tank shock enemy vehicles at LD 7.

[Refyougee]

Yeah I agree that DSing armies hurt the Callidus, but I also mentioned that if you spend 12 points on getting two Mystics for the Inq you HAD to get for the Assassin, Demons won't be DSing too close to you.

 

Drops Pods give you a bit more trouble because they have longer range but at least you can stay out of Melta/MM range. Personally I field a Triple-LR list with Inq+Assassin, and if I can keep those Dreads more than 12" away from my tanks personally that makes it all worth it. Or if they DS within range, two TL Lascannon shots are (hopefully) coming their way.

 

Reserve lists are tricky (I have to disagree about those being "sissy" armies though) to navigate and I guess that in this case you are kind of screwed as to AWIYE. However this tactic will only hurt you if the list has been tailored to pull this tactic off anyways (Eldar Autarch builds for example). Otherwise your opponent's army is coming in piecemeal.

 

Dawn of War, well, there are a few options you have here. IMO moving a unit out of cover is a great use of the ability. This last part applies to all games but the fear of knowing that you're going to get to mess with your opponent's deployment is bound to affect him. You might not get to drive a unit of bikes into dangerous terrain, but that's because your opponent is going to make damn sure they're more than 6 inches away. Maybe he'll set up further into cover so that 6 inches isn't enough to get a unit out of it. And if your opponent starts completely off the board, well, I don't see a big downside to that! With Night Fighting in effect it's possible to make sure your opponent doesn't get a hit on you; I also advise using Emperor's Tarot with the Inq; in total a Cally + Inq + 2 Mystics + Tarot is 167 points, which IMO is not too shabby at all.

 

Every time you make your opponent choose...that's just one more opportunity for him to choose wrongly. As a side note, I don't believe that AWIYE is as good as LoS but then again, what is?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

the IL probably won't make a psychic test or successfully use a hood.

 

Psychic hood is pretty pointless against Tyranids; the only time you'll ever have to use it is when he tries to use Catalyst, or when he's trying to blow up a tank with Warp Blast. Against Tyranids, the only unit the Culexus is really worth it against is the Zoanthrope (especially if he clusters them up near his Hive Tyrant) or Warriors (heh, they're each a seperate psyker, so 6 strong brood = 8 shots. Yay!).

 

Culexus is near-impossible to use usually though, mainly because no one cares about his rules these days...

 

Psykers? The good ones will eat him alive in close-combat, and he's not even good in close-combat to begin with (no power weapon, nothing, just 4 x S4 attacks. Nice work chump, now eat witch-blade). You'll need exceptional luck to get his grenades to work.

 

You are now Ld7 nub: Oh really? Wow, that kinds sucks for you, because I'm Fearless. Or Stubborn and using Rites of Battle. Or within Synapse. Or.....but wait, Tau or IG might care!

 

Animus Speculum: 12" range? Golly me, thats the same distance at which a squad of Marines or indeed most infantry units rapid-fire. 4+ invul and 2 wounds isn't that great against 20 shots.

 

It's a bit sad really. He's meant to be walking death to anything with psychic ability, and yet he's so manifestly useless. I think he's amoungst the coolest of the Temples (not least because of the shady origins of the Pariah gene), but rules-wise he's best left on the shelf and admired for all he could be.

[Refyougee]

Hey I know this is *really* situational and doubtlessly inefficient, but isn't there some Inq Henchman who is a Psyker? Load up on those guys and make sure they're within 12" of the Culexus. Hell, GK Justicars and Termies work too...you could get lucky and get the Animus Speculum up to a dozen shots or more, which would be good for a comedy option at least.

[Aidoneus]

No, there is no henchmen who is a psyker. In the fluff the mystic sometimes is a weak psyker, but in gameplay none of them have that special rule.

 

The psykers in a DH army are as follows:

 

Grand Master

Brother Captain

Inquisitor Lord

Inquisitor

Daemonhost

Justicar

 

that's it (unless I forgot one)

[Gentlemanloser]

He's especially good for annhilating T4 heroes (re-rolls to wound)

 

The Eversor gets re rolls to wound?

 

Yeah I agree that DSing armies hurt the Callidus, but I also mentioned that if you spend 12 points on getting two Mystics for the Inq you HAD to get for the Assassin, Demons won't be DSing too close to you.

 

Agreed. :) But that doesn't help AWIYE at all though. :D

[Onisuzume]

No, they don't.

They do have a special CCW which wounds on a 4+ though.

Which ignore armour saves.

 

So that's useful against the high T models.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

They do have a special CCW which wounds on a 4+ though.

 

Which by definition is a poisioned weapon. There's only two criteria it has to meet, according to the 'Poisioned Weapon' entry in the Assault section of the BRB.

 

1. Doesn't rely on a comparison of Strength and Toughness

2. Wounds on a fixed value. Usually a 4+, sometimes 3+ or even 2+ (depending on codex)

 

Just because it ignores armour saves doesn't make a difference, thats just a codex add-on.

 

Which also makes the Consecrated weapon a poisioned weapon (although it only works against Daemons, and in almost all circumstances it's better to stick with the default S6 power weapon you have on the GM/BC, and Malleus Inquisitors aren't designed for close-combat).

[Gentlemanloser]

Which by definition is a poisioned weapon.

 

Woah! That's stretching things a bit!

 

Edit: It's like (bad example, but first to mind..) saying Artificer Armour gives the Relentless rule like Terminator Armour Does, becuase it's has a 2+ armour save, which Terminator Armour has.

[Onisuzume]

Which by definition is a poisioned weapon. There's only two criteria it has to meet, according to the 'Poisioned Weapon' entry in the Assault section of the BRB.

 

1. Doesn't rely on a comparison of Strength and Toughness

2. Wounds on a fixed value. Usually a 4+, sometimes 3+ or even 2+ (depending on codex)

 

Just because it ignores armour saves doesn't make a difference, thats just a codex add-on.

 

Which also makes the Consecrated weapon a poisioned weapon (although it only works against Daemons, and in almost all circumstances it's better to stick with the default S6 power weapon you have on the GM/BC, and Malleus Inquisitors aren't designed for close-combat).

I can argue against that because the rules of the Consecrated Weapon state that they always wound on a 4+ or better if strength would allow them to score on a 3+ or 2+. Which means that point 1 doesn't also apply.

Ontop of that, the Neural Gauntlet also glances a vehicles on a to-hit roll of a 6.