spend my money

[Lone Scout]

I have $300 aussie to start a SOB army what do you all surgest I spend it on?

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Damn, I thought this would be a chance for a poor penniless student to get his hands on some cash. Oh well, maybe I'll have better luck next time. :lol:

 

Ok, since SoB are strong at short-range firepower, I would recommend at least two Battle Sister squads in Rhinos as a start point, backed up with similarly mobile support units. As to specifics on what supports them best, I'm a little out of my depth. I'll let someone else recommend that.

[Mosk]

First things first: ebay, check it out u get cheaper stuff.

 

You probably want to get:

 

Twenty sisters

Two rhinos (or four and convert two of them to be exorcists) I would suggest that u buy them on ebay, try macpac (this is the user name of someone who sales a ton of plastic and some metal sets but really cheap)

 

 

One or two cannoness

 

Five to ten seraphem.

 

With all this you will have a fairly balanced force.

 

Also you may wanna pick up the living saint to, awesome combat, awesome looking.

[panbient]

I have $300 aussie to start a SOB army what do you all surgest I spend it on?

 

with that budget and the aussie GW online store i come out with this...

 

1 exorcist

1 immolator

2 battle sister squads

1 canoness

 

here i thought the canadian prices were harsh -_- either way it's enough to get you a decent start. the immolator model is great as it comes with the bits to double as a rhino with a simple turret swap. or you can take a 3rd sister squad instead, but that puts you over by $2 hehe.

 

even with 3 sister squads you'll likely have a hard time filling more than 1000 points, either way you'll have enough to put down a solid small points sister list.

[Marid]

Edit: shoot. I didn't catch the Aussie $$ part. This is more challenging. -_-

 

Ok, with your budget you might want to skip the Exorcist for now.

 

How about:

 

1x Canoness

2x SOB boxes

1x SOB booster

2x SOB w/ melta gun

1x Rhino

1x Immolator

 

$297 AUS

 

List:

 

HQ: Canoness

Troop 1: 10x SOB w/ vet and 2x storm bolters SOBs

Troop 2: 10x SOB w/ vet with eviscerator and 2x flamer SOBs in Rhino

FA: 5x Dominions w/ vet with eviscerator and 2x melta SOBs mounted in an Immolator

 

That would use every model. Depending on how you set up the Canoness and Immolator, this list will be about 650-700 pts. A few more models will get you to 750.

[x19]

I recommend buying the codex as part of your starting army ;-)

[Lone Scout]

Thank you for the replys. I stole a sister squad, inqusitor and retinue, 5 arco flagies and a cannoness for $60 and $10 from the mrs purse so I now have $250.

 

Thinking 2 more sister squads + codex gives me $100 more to spend?? Sound Ok so far??

[panbient]

arcos need a priest.

[Deadshane]

For a GOOD COMPETETIVE sisters army....dont pick seraphim.

[Wulfen Lord Leo]

For a GOOD COMPETETIVE sisters army....dont pick seraphim.

I think you mean either Celestians or Repentia, Seraphiam can be the best unit in the 'dex, being mobile tank hunting power or horde busting power helps, along with doubling as a delivery system for a flying nun of doom (Cannoness with jump pack and either Exorcist or Blessed weapon standard.)

 

As for the whole priest situation, one can be easily made from a man sized model.

[Deadshane]

I'm not getting drawn into this arguement again, since every sisters player insists Seraphim are awesome for some strange reason, and I really dont feel like arguing with the masses.

 

BUT

 

If you're interested what someone has to say about seraphim, someone who went undefeated with them during an Adepticon championship.....

 

....they stink....and have never survived a battle against me. (I make a point of killing them in the most humiliating way possible when I see them, its easy, they cannot even hide behind rhino's)

 

Expensive, joke in close combat, have to get too close to be effective, models are entirely too visible, no transport option to keep them safe, they die as soon as anything substantial charges them....yuck.

 

'nuff said.

 

Oh, and Celestians are fantastically awesome. You're the one that has them reversed dude.

 

5 girl squad, faithful without superior, always hit on 3+, brutal drive by attacks with melta/H.Flamer assisted by Immo heavy flamer, easy to make invulnerable to control HtH when in small groups. Flexible, hard to kill, tactically awesome.

[Pratch]

Seraphim are one of the few sisters units with a WS higher than 3 and an initiative greater than 3. Added to the fact that they can carry meltabombs, they are one of the best sisters units there is. I have a ten-strong seraphim unit with meltabombs and although they're expensive both in points and money, they almost always earn their points back. For large games, I attach Saint Celestine and because she also has hit & run, the seraphim can still withdraw from combat. If possible I try to take two full squads, expensive but effective.

 

Repentia die too quickly for my liking. They're WS4 but they always strike at I1 and that means that a lot of things can kill them easily since they only have a 4+ save. Given that you're playing a witch hunters army, arcos are a lot more effective. I play a pure sisters army, meaning I don't use arcos and inquisitors. I don't particularly like inquisitors but then again, I play pure sisters.

 

Celestians are actually quite good, but because they're no longer scoring units, they're no longer as good as they used to be. A celestian retinue for a Canoness in an Immolator/Rhino is very effective and if you're using a footslogging/mechanised canoness then give her a retinue and she will last a lot longer.

 

The SoB squad box is good for beginning, but the weapons options it gives you aren't great. Flamers are fine and I always give my veteran superiors plasma pistols (I know they're expensive but that's just me) but storm bolters are just not worth taking because they don't have much impact compared to a flamer or melta. If you're trying to use every model then take the storm bolters but once you can afford to, get meltas and heavy flamers. The heavy flamer is incredibly effective, especially when combined with divine guidance and meltas/multi-meltas are really the only anti-tank ranged weapons other than exorcists that are available. The immolator kit is excellent value because a simple turret swap makes it into a SoB rhino. For exorcists, I recommend the forgeworld kit. It's not as ornate as the GW kit, but it is cheaper although I don't know how much shipping to Australia would cost.

[boreas]

Use of seraphims? Not in the OT... @Deadshane: your opinion is yours, more power to you if you kill them easily.

 

I might suggest picking up a Whirlwind. With proper modelling, it can do a good exorcist and you can take the turret off if you want a rhino. All that for 20% cheaper and much much easier assembly, painting and transport!

 

Phil

[the jeske]

Expensive, joke in close combat, have to get too close to be effective, models are entirely too visible, no transport option to keep them safe, they die as soon as anything substantial charges them....yuck.

you know considering that sob are a 12" army you could say the same about [takes in breath] sob squads , dominions, celestians what more or less forms 3/4 of the sob armies . serafins arent a hth unit , they never were . they are used as horde meta to put 3 flamer templates on a unit [and die or fall back] or put 3 templates on a meq unit with DG [with better chance of getting ap1 because they are twink linked] and pull away fire from scoring sob unit . sob units die when they get charged? well m8 all sob units charged die when charged even a HQ wont stay more then 2/3 turns [and that burning a lot of faith to do that] . ahh also what adepticon was that and what army were you playing and on what table on what round did you face a sob player ?

 

as the list and stuff buying goes . first get 50/60 sob [or 30/40 in case of smaller armies] and rhinos .But the truth is that unless sob are played with the full load out [exorcists full army etc] sob are a rather weak army and thats something considering they arent top tier to begin with.

[Pratch]

Seraphim are not a CC unit. With meltabombs they pop tanks with ease and because they can hit & run, if they get bogged down in combat, they can escape providing they pass an initiative test.

 

SoB are not a CC army. They are a short-ranged army that can lay down a hail of very effective anti-infantry fire between 12-24". Give them divine guidance and they become a lot more effective. So far I've only won a single game with my sisters because they do indeed die horribly when charged. If however, you keep your squads mobile, they do last quite a while out of combat. Once charged, it's down to praying to the dice gods that your opponent rolls a lot of 1s and 2s.

 

The only way to survive CC is to use faith and cast spirit of the martyr.

 

Retributors with heavy bolters are deadly if given divine guidance. With 4 heavy bolters, that's 12 shots at 36" and any 6s to wound are S5 AP1.

 

As I've already said, I've only won a singe game so far. That's because I'm used to playing marines who are a lot more durable. Once I've got the tactics sorted out, I'll probably start winning a few more. They are a specialised army that take a lot of time to get used to because they are so weak in combat yet so effective at short range.

[Melissia]

because they can hit & run, if they get bogged down in combat, they can escape providing they pass an initiative test.

According to their FAQ, Seraphim and Celestine, the Living Saint have a special Hit and Run rule... it doesn't include the Initiative check.

 

 

On the turn they charge, a full squad would get:

 

7 twin-linked bolt pistol shots on the shooting phase

2 twin-linked flamer shots / twin-linked inferno pistol shots (Basicly a meltagun pistol)

Then whatever the seraphim superior has.

 

Then, during the assault, they would get 30-ish S3 attacks (depending on the superior's equipment) at WS4 I4.

 

No, they're not a dedicated close combat specialist, but they're the closest thing the Sisters have to one. They can also be quite deadly to terminator squads too-- 2 twin-linked S8/AP2 shots, then a plasma pistol shot ontop of that, means usually at least two of them will die, ontop of any other shots that might get through.

[Deadshane]

Keep dreaming about seraphim.

 

Check around...the BEST sisters players with the best tournement records dont use them....and thats a fact. Go look up some undefeated sisters players that frequent tournements.....I have....they dont like seraphim. Sure some still insist on using them (die hards) but the most effective and winningest armies leave them at home.....REALLY. Not trying to show the size of my johnson here...I'm simply telling you guys that they are too difficult to use considering the other choices that are in the codex. Seraphim do NOT fit into the most effective Sisters of Battle, Battle plan. Again, ask top players, the top players that DONT use seraphim do better than those that do.

 

Then again, you can keep on arguing that the sky is colored red instead of blue.

 

Keep telling everyone how good they are, it makes it easier to win games at tournements AGAINST sisters.

 

*shakes head*

[Melissia]

I'm not dreaming. My point was merely that they are the best CC the Sisters have available, which is rather undeniably true (repentia are far worse for pointss, regardless of their potential hitting power). I never argued that they should be put in tourney builds. Tournies are rather screwy places to begin with.

[Deadshane]

Best CC the Sisters have availiable...lemme illustrate how WRONG you are.

 

Using a rhino with just a little bit of forsight into the coming turns its easy to get THIS unit into combat...which is probably the best unit that the sisters have availiable for CC.

 

Cannoness w/Litanies, Evicerator, 2+Armour, Book, Inferno Pistol

Priest w/Power armour, Evicerator

6xCelestian w/Imagifer, 2xMelta, Superior w/Evicerator

 

Unit kills Armour with shooting OR CC

Unit can go invulnerable

Unit can get up to str8 Attacks (10 of them) WITH RR'S to hit (some of which hitting on 3+)

Unit has limited availiable abuse for wound distribution a-la NobBiker

Unit uses the 'hard to come by' "retinue" rules FURTHER protecting the cannoness, perhaps also saving you a kill point in missions if you're smart.

 

Nothing Seraphim can do compare to what THIS unit can do...its easily able to outperform any TWO units of seraphim that appear on the table.

 

Or perhaps you'd like to take on a NobBiker unit with your Seraphim? This unit cleans house on NobBikers (and everything else) Seraphim better use jumppacks to get off of the table against the Nobs.

 

Seraphim....yea, right.

 

Seraphim can kill armour....BIG DEAL...the entire Sisters army can do that with ease...and from the safety of an armoured transport! Hit and run...no need to hit and run when you KILL your opponent with the unit above, the unit you purchase with the points you save from two large seraphim units. "Seraphim are good against hordes with their flamers!" Umm...the entire sisters army has flamers...that they safely shoot from within armoured transports.

 

Get the net, Seraphim stink.

[Marid]

Thank you for the replys. I stole a sister squad, inqusitor and retinue, 5 arco flagies and a cannoness for $60 and $10 from the mrs purse so I now have $250.

 

Thinking 2 more sister squads + codex gives me $100 more to spend?? Sound Ok so far??

 

That sounds fine so far.

 

Since you got the Arcos, you should get a priest. But I wonder if one of the retinue characters can be used for one?

 

Unless you really want to footslog get an Immolator and Rhino. Or two Immolators if you're handy. Like Pratch already said, you can set an Immolator up so it can be a Rhino/Immolator with magnetized parts.

 

Like I said earlier, hold off on the Exorcist(s) until you have the cash and experience.

[Melissia]

Best CC the Sisters have availiable...lemme illustrate how WRONG you are.

I'm sttill waiting for you to do so.

 

The unit you propose costs at least 429 points. A ten member Seraphim squad with TL Inferno Pistols, Eviscerator and book costs 290.

 

For the price, the Seraphim are still the best CC unit the Sisters have available. With a veteran, they get a free Imagifier. They have jump packs and thus may deep strike and have better movement without need for paying extra for the rhino-- and only count as one kill point. They are actually equipped for close combat, with the entire squad able to fire their weapons before the charge, and then gain two attacks in close combat ontop of that. They'll have frag grenades for assaulting enemies in cover and krak grenades for assaulting light vehicles and ensuring a penetration or two (9 attacks with 6+d6 penetration, 1 s6 attack with 2d6 penetration). Even giving the entire squad meltabombs would make them 100 points less expensive than the squad you proposed, and with that they'd be beable to ensure the death of practicly vehicle on the field of battle in a single turn of assaultin (hello, 10 meltabomb attacks!). Morover, they can still kill tanks at range, too-- in fact, they're probably more likely to kill tanks at range than the other squad given that thir weapons are twin-linked. If necessary, one can also qutie easilly benefit from Hand of the Emperor with this too-- 27 S5 attacks at Ws4 along with three S8 power weapon attacks is nothing to yawn at for the ranged-oriented Sisters. If they get stuck in an assault they can't stand, then they can hit and run to get out of it, or after taking a few casualties, use Spirit of the Martyr.

 

No, I don't believe the unit you mentioned holds a candle for poitns efficiency and general effectiveness. Indeed, two units of Seraphim would outperform this squad even moreso if properly equipped, and will have more firepower to boot (four twin-linked inferno pistols, two eviscerators), AND STILL BE CHEAPER. Ah, aren't Seraphim such a fun unit?

[boreas]

Deadshane, you're kidding, right? Your 430+ pts units cannot charge after disembarking (or will footslog!?), is not as controllable (due to priest) and reduces your Canoness' mobility.

 

For 240-ish points, you get 7 seraphims w/vss (eviscerator,book), 2 twin hand-flamers and 7 meltabombs. More mobile, more chances at pulling an AoF, good as anti-horde AND anti-elite (divine guidance on 2 templates) and anti-tank. They can charge after shooting. Plus they leavy you enought points for a scoring SoB squad in a rhino with 2 meltas (roughly). They do require skills, experience and thinking to use them to full effectiveness. But then again, most elite units do.

 

I'm don't know about your tourneys (like Melissia, I don't like tourneys), but I'd really really like you to show us some of those lists (or point where I can find them...). For all his... abruptness... I'll defer to The Jeske as the tourney guy.

 

The only point I'll agree on is that, compared with assault marines, with "normal" modelling, seraphim are at a disadvantage cover-wise. Well, cut the small pins...

 

Phil

[Tauren]

I love players who whine about models being to visible... That's when I take the time to convert them... You could even have them flying stomach down... Clip the feet stands and attach them angled onto a small rock on the base. Shoot if you wanted to you could model them flying like a bird... belly towards the ground. Just because you are to lazy or unskilled to convert them doesn't mean they suck... Furthermore inquisition is all about the modeling, you want a simple army that requires little work, play smurfs.

 

Seraphim are a nice fluffy unit and your powerhorse for moving around the field and slaughtering vehicles and elite troopers alike. They aren't half bad at cutting down weak units like weapon teams either if need be, just gotta be careful where you send them. They are considered to be some of thee best jump troops in the game by some. Giving them dual inferno pistols will kill off tanks nice and good and do an amazing job of melting elite units like terminators into slag. Laugh when your sisters throw AP 1 divine shots and melta shots into terminators and waste them into sticky molten goodness...

[Pratch]

I agree with everyone else here. A tooled up 430pt HQ squad is always likely to be very strong because it's so powerful and also expensive. Unless they disembark before the transport moves, they can't charge, just shoot and with an inferno pistol, it renders the canoness's BS5 useless. Unless of course you want to disembark into charge range without being able to do so. As for points efficiency, no way. One thing I've learnt playing sisters is that sometimes you need more models on the table to make the army survive given they're only T3. With a need for scoring units, tying up a large number of points in a single squad is not a good idea. If the scoring units get killed, then unless you're playing annihilation, it's game over.

 

I've done exactly what Tauren has descibed and my opponent was not amused when 10 seraphim vaporied the best part of a terminator squad with divine guidance. S4 AP1 flamer hits are very good. By all means charge them into combat, but don't expect them to survive. They work best hopping around the table flaming infantry and popping tanks. Also, I've tried dropping them behind the enemy so that if they fall back, they get caught in a crossfire. I shoot the enemy from the front, then from behind with the seraphim and if they fail their morale check, they die because their fallback corridor is blocked.

 

Drive-by flaming was why they stopped retributors from taking heavy flamers in the current codex. It was a problem in 3rd Ed where people used to stick them in an immolator or rhino and then drive-by flame with the rets and the immolator. It's also why immolators can be so effective. You can still do the same thing with regular sisters, except they can only take a single heavy flamer and one regular flamer and can't use an immolator.

 

I've never played in a proper tourney so I can't say whether my tactics would work in such a situation. I doubt they would. I play 40k for fun and I find that the stress and competitiveness (is that a word?) of tournaments kills it for me. Therefore, I don't play in many. In the games I have played though, the seraphim have always proved to be worth their points even if I did end up losing due to screwy tactics with the rest of the army.

 

Like boreas, I'd really like to see the tourney lists you've beaten.

[Tauren]

Yea really the only question is whether to take inferno pistols or hand flamers with seraphim... still has me wondering which is better in a mixed force...