chapter master 454 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 right recently had a game with some eldar git and heres what i faced: yriel, another autarch, 3 falcons or something, 2 wave serpeants, 2 squads of dire avengers (numbering about 12-15), 5 howling banshees and ten fire dragons (two squads of five). now faced this with some confusion and annoyance as the objectives were numbering 3 and for most part i had 3 but then again he didn't deploy til turn 2. reason is he held everything in reserve and made me go first guess what, two turns of blasting him gone. his autarchs brought those reserves on fast (give me a sledgehammer, the guy who made the codex eldar better start running) and so he put 3 falcons (shurikens and pulse lasers, no bright lances) worth into my captains squad who the captain was remaining with one wound and thats after some avengers fired. and heres the kick in the balls, dispite have a land speeder squadron, assaults and the bikers plus captain in reserve the land speeders and bikes came on too early and found themselves target practice. i should found the scouts that had out flanked going for the 3rd objective were doomed (IE they got blasted to hell) plus using turbos he turned the game into a draw. now i'm not sure but do troops inside a transport count as scoring? that was his draw there, and it pissed me off to the degree of wanting to knock his light clean out with great glee. he has been known for his filth and this time i think i'll never play him again for his <Deleted by the =][=> -insert some nasty words here- trickery, he said he had imperial guard and with trust he abused it and gave me eldar. seriously i know theres a thing as being a good sport but i am to the best of my ability but when people bend rules and abuse trust like he has i'm getting sick of it. yriels eye took out an entire tact squad and my assaults were the only joy as they killed the banshees. i want to know how to deal with filthy eldar that go for characters like yriel and have the love for using holofields, however i had some happiness, twice i rolled two dice and one was double six and the other double five. anyway if theres anyway of senting these pointy eared, over-confindent, snobby elfs packing then please tell because i'm at wits end finding ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Seriously dude. Punctuation. It is our eye's friend. <_< Yes, troops in the transport count as scoring, no problem there. It sounds like you were unlucky on your reserve rolls, but you still got a draw. RoV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedwin183 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Really, that's not to terrible of a list he fielded. I mean, WE have some really cheesy special characters too. Next time, field Pedro or Lysander or something. Go out and buy some Eldar cry factories as well (Predators with autocannon and HB sponsons). With the advent of the new SM codex, really no one has better special characters right now than SM. Abaddon is still a super beast, and Ghazghkull will always be a factor as well. Seriously though, none of those aspect warrior special characters are unstoppable. Yriel is good but again, not THAT good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kairos Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 You can only have 10 dire avengers max in a squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Unfortunately Edlar still hold one of the cheesiest dex's in production, with IMHO 'Crons comming in a close second. I have tried for more months than I care to count to build a 'friendly' eldar list... and failed miserably. But that said, they are not unbeatable.... with the advent of 5th edition, their unkillableness in teh falcon/wave serpent was reduced, but still hard to take down... the troops themselves, they should be no problem for a decent sized marine army to deal with if you can close with them.... From the way you describe this guy playing, hes got a death wish... if he didn't wipe you out in one turn, its game over for him. And lets face it, they are good, but not that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyVG Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 You can only have 10 dire avengers max in a squad. Yeah, maybe he just had blue guardians in those wave serps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 eh, let me clarify some things here, ALL his men were in falcons or wave serpeants who didn't arrvie til turn 2 and he went second, lost 2 turns of shooting and he knew my lay out and where to hit without worrys, so he take yriel and 5 banshees and sets about turboing and then star engines (which i feel is wrong, please tell if he can or can't) so hes got they right on top of me. true yriel only took out a tact squad (gave him the eye of cheese and got them all) but the assault took out some poor rolling banshees and my dreads assault cannon diced him, something i tripped up on because i forgot of instant death to eldar is 6 or more, whoops and thus assaults and an entire tact was left looking daft that were gonna charge him (i take note of that now). he also got somewhat annoying by using those skimmers pulse lasers, one of which got my vindicators demolisher cannon (13 armour, typical, bet a bright lance would of done nothing...). i also found it annoying to find his transports contesting my objectives by the star turbo boost engine. trust me this guy plays filth, beardy armys no matter the weather, he has an army list that uses 6 war walkers (i faced three and they were wiping out entire marine squads every turn with there star cannons). now falcons are a problem not because of there weapons (i can live with brightlances or pulse lasers) but i can't deal with their speed and contest ability. now i prefer to use plasma cannons for good overallness plus a flamer (its free), or i take missle lauchers and plasma guns (a bit dearer but lack of models is a git!!!). what i can siv from all this tactical news yous have given me, taking a dakka pred is good, and i should get out a good couple of termys then or should i take something else, and then do i use deep strike or land...actually i ether just deploy them or deep strike. one last note i do like it if yous can also keep some generalised tacts about but anything that can be leewayed against an eldar would be appreicated. anyway cheers for the advice. one last thing: at least this time i'm using paragraphs! (for those who have seen any of my more 'earlyer' posting days then yous will know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadarn Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I still say that I don't think his list was all that cheesy. It sounds like this guy has a bad rep, most likely well deserved, but this list is just playing to his armies strengths. Eldar focus on speed and firepower. They also rely on dirty tricks. It's part of their fluff and built into their tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 It doesn't sound like all that rough a list to me, honestly. However, you and I may field totally different Marine armies. What WAS the makeup of your force? He gambled big-time on his deployment. Leaving everything in reserve like that is very hit-or-miss. Either he gets everything he needs, or everything comes in piecemeal and he gets shot to ribbons. What did you do for the first two turns while he wasn't on the board? Where were the objectives located? Did you surge forward to capture all the objectives and then wait for him to light you up? Or did you select good fields of fire, hunker down in advantageous cover, etc.? Not sure what you mean when you were talking about "trust" and him stating that he had in IG army. So, when you agreed to play him, he said he had IG with him? If you saw him setting up his board with Eldar junk, wouldn't that have tipped you off from the get-go? Or did you blindfold yourself until the first turn of the game? Without knowing what your army looked like, it's tough to give you specific tactics. How much anti-tank weaponry were you packing? Were your tactical squads mounted in Rhinos, or footsloggers? Hate to sound harsh, but it's not the best idea to cry cheese and cheater without presenting a full report of both sides of the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kairos Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Yeah, I mean it's not like he meant it. EDIT: Just realised what I posted doesn't quite make sense, but I'll leave it there to show people why posting at 2 in the morning isn't a good idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiodome Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 To be honest you're just complaining about nothing. It's not cheesy it's just new to you and plays in a different way to armies you're used to. Carrying on calling a guy 'filth' for using what seem to be perfectly fair lists just makes you looks petulant. There's nothing in 6 war walkers that deserves the labels 'filth' or 'cheesy', just learn how to cope and quit whinging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Ok another little enlightenment, i decided that i would let him play with his eldar and reserve rolls were made at 2+ from turn two (two autarchs, something i doubt as i don't think it stacks). also i had two of the 3 objectives plus the 3rd one for about a turn before my scouts had to charge a squad of dire avengers (or become target practice). This list is most likely yes the kindess he has ever fielded in his life. To note about the trick he did with IG i didn't really have must faith in him for being hoenst since he said WS 5 for imperial guard of some unit, but i decided to amuse his stupidity and thus got a draw from it all. Now i would like to point out that he has never been loved for any armys but he is somewhat useful. his rep on battle field: very very bad, off table hes a rather nice guy which to me smells of some type of gamer who loves to try and mess with opponents heads. Now i do know that eldar have nastier lists (and i can garentee you i have faced them) but this list was enough to play so strong to the armys advantage it was unfair. Completely out moved and i had to stick to my own deployment zone just pull out a win. I had sniper scouts holding an objective, a vindicator that was demolisherless because of a pulse laser shot on front armour and my whirlwinds only notable achievement was taking out a full squad of fire dragons who were doing nothing anyway. Basicly put it this way, yriel got close and nailed one squad, he turboed onto my objectives and contested them while his avengers held the other one that was previously scout held and at one point i've just realised cheated, he tank shocked my scouts and stopped on the objective but never declared the distance. Sigh, i'll never get a break from eldarian cheese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedwin183 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Seriously, it sounds like he tailored a list to beat you. So it's really simple: return the favor. Get a bunch of dev squads on the board with lascannons and pop all the skimmers or use dakka preds, vindis and whirlwinds to take advantage of his armies low T. I have beaten Eldar only once, but I did it with a neutral list. So, beating him can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 1) Yes, Autarch's reserve roll bonus stacks. 2) Yes, Star Engines allow him to move outrageously fast 3) Yes, having 5/6 of your opponent's army come in 2nd turn is potentially painful. That's what reserves let you do. I don't get the bonus to my reserve roll, but it will be rare to find me without a bike squad or land raider in reserve in any given game so that I can slam a very powerful unit EXACTLY where I want it on the table. Against a list with lots of stuff in reserves, keep to your side of the table. It sounds like you blitzed to the objectives and let yourself be caught within his optimum weapon range. If he comes on the table with star engines, he's not shooting and he's not dropping troops off, giving you a fair chance to damage his vehicles and dictate his ability to inflict damage with his infantry once he deploys. You got fought to a draw by a combination of a strong (but not broken) list, poor reserve rolls on your side, and a mistake in your maneuver that put you in a position to be slaughtered. Please note, your opponent still didn't win the game. You didn't lose. That alone should say that his army isn't all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Exedore Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Is this right, he used full Falcon/Wave Serpent Movement+his star Engines? You are not allowed to disembark after full speed if I remember 5th right...? Maybe someone who knows Eladar better can explain if they can disembark after full speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 You cannot disembark from any vehicle that has moved more than 12" in the movement phase. Red Paint Job for Orks is very careful to say that the extra 1" that you get does not count towards the total distance moved. Star engines take the place of shooting. So you can disembark only BEFORE you engage the star engines if you haven't moved over 12" already. And adding an additional point: Maneuver Eldar is defeated by "Castle Doctrine". Deploy all your units in tightly, denying him the ability to defeat you in detail by isolating your units by spreading them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTAG Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 You cannot disembark from any vehicle that has moved more than 12" in the movement phase.Red Paint Job for Orks is very careful to say that the extra 1" that you get does not count towards the total distance moved. Star engines take the place of shooting. So you can disembark only BEFORE you engage the star engines if you haven't moved over 12" already. And adding an additional point: Maneuver Eldar is defeated by "Castle Doctrine". Deploy all your units in tightly, denying him the ability to defeat you in detail by isolating your units by spreading them out. Just keep in mind that doesn't mean bunch your units to make blast/template weapons extra effective. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockdeity Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I don't think it's even about castling necessarily. It's more about having your units cover each other, of which a specific case is castling. You can move around and even spread out if you have a way for the units to cover each other. E.g. - a vindicator with line of fire on a dev squad which is about to be assaulted by banshees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Bring lots of lascannons for his skimmers, and heavy bolters for his infantry. Then watch him cry as you unload all that boltery goodness on him. Trust me, that's not even nearly the cheesiest army you could've faced...you haven't had the joy of facing the Flying Circus (transports loaded with harlequins) or the Shining Spear Hit and Run Army (exactly what it sounds like, enjoy all those S6 power weapon charges and then they break combat to do it again). Then you'll really be disappointed with eldar. ..a good tip is simply to buy their codex, and figure their units out better. Be very familiar with what they can and cannot do -- half of what makes eldar so tough is that they make up their own rules (like ignoring difficult terrain or cover, etc.). So if you can be very aware of what their rules are, you'll understand a little bit better what you're facing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiodome Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 lol, don't waste points on lascannons :S half the skimmers in his army will count the lascannon as str8 when firing at them, stop being silly and trust in the good old krak missile and save some points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Good point. However, surely you can agree on heavy bolters? Eldar are squishy enough that HBs tear them a new one, and there's nothing wrong with forcing more and more saves (hey, it's how IG win..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Thunderfire cannons can really cramp the style of those skimmers. ;) They also do pretty good against his troops, too. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Yeah until he slides his ignores difficult terrain units right in on top of you and glances you to death lol :sweat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kairos Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Only Harlequins ignore diffucult terrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tual Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Chapter master - please proof read your posts... it hurts to read through them... slow down a bit... breathe... As for dual autarchs.. It is obvious as to why he has them... he made you go first for a reason... that part was luck (dice roll off is all luck) but it sounds like you went all in and took the bait... Why did you reserve your own stuff? you will be bringing on stuff before he even rolls... you had two turns to manouvre? why waste that with putting things in reserve? to try and out reserve the master reserve army? good luck with that one... Second - outflank or standard reserves? he has to declare that - (most looks like standard eldar standard stuff but its hard actually keep focus) You know what eldar CAN do - they move really well - So expect it... make it so that in moving well he exposes himself... wow... Cheers buddy, thanks for the rear/side armour shot there... yeah, he gets a cover save, but he has brought ALL of your otherwise useless guns into play or your stronger ones even stronger with a lower AV to get through!!! Thirdly.. have a strategy... yay, I hold all the objectives on turn 2-3 ... wait.. I am isolated vs an army that excels in killing isolated things.. almost to the point that they need to isolate the enemy in-order to kill anything! I have seen guys with nids line block the entire table edge against a smart arse player all in reserve because of fear of scuttlers and brood lords, only for him to infiltrate a massive unit in a line and some winged tyrants/warriors to block the rest, accept for one part which allowed one unit to move on at a time... NOM... NOM... more... NOM... I have even seen tau block a short table edge against a Khan army all in outflank... now they have to cross LONG ways vs tau and in waves!!! Strategy! it will make it alot easier! a pred or three wont do squat unless you use it properly... I promise you that! just breathe and think alittle bit.. Eldar are quite break-able... you just have to be smart about it and not rush.. The longer the game goes for the quicker eldar die, so relax and think about it and just like with the eldar, you will destroy them over time easier than trying to go for the king hit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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