rockdeity Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Cassius is 125 points. For that you get a normal chappy (100 pts.) with poison bolter ammo/ combi-flamer and FnP + T6 A chaplain with term armor with storm bolter is 130 points. Except against AP3 shots, FnP with 3+ save is statistically equivalent to a 2+ save and he already has a 4+ inv save. So, cassius would gain nothing by being in terminator armor. I can't see why you would ever field a terminator chaplain now if you have a cassius model, or something that could count as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkiraCho Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 for one thing regular chaplain are garbage right now. unless with an assault squad then they are ok.. or an assault termi squad... cassius can do neither. is he bad heck no. hes VERY cost effective. but he doesnt have the number of attacks to really matter. like hes wonderful, but not wonderful enough to fit into most marine armies now, the new metta tends to be lots of tactical squads shoot you up, then a land raider with an assault squad or a refulatr assault squad sweeping in. the alternative is lots of dakka predators and just shootem up, cassius just isnt wonderful in those situations. hes not bad tho at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 The lack of transport options for him is a problem. Regular chaplains make the most extensive use of Jump Pack and Bike of all the SM 2-wound HQs. However, he is better, and in a circumstance where you aren't using Jump Packs or Bikes, I'd take him. That pretty much means Land Raider or Drop Pod. EDIT: Oh, and the two reasons you missed for why Terminator Armour is still useful instead of Cassius: It makes you relentless, and it allows you to be teleported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockdeity Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 for one thing regular chaplain are garbage right now. unless with an assault squad then they are ok.. or an assault termi squad... cassius can do neither. Why can't he run with either? He seems to be a perfect fit for both to me. If you think all chaplains are worthless, well, you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to my master-crafted vet squad on the charge. I'm just saying that if you were going to take a term chaplain for any reason (like giving rr's to your TH terms for example), then I think picking cassius is a no-brainer. Good point about being teleported in. Hadn't thought of that. You probably wouldn't be teleporting in an assault term squad anyway, but that's a valid drawback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Chaos_Brute Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 He's too slow, put him in a LR with Assault Terms, you have to buy another LR for competetiveness, then you have LR rush, and he's still too slow as soon as he gets out. The only chappy worth taking is the JP one w/ an assault squad. GW really beat chappies+libbies with the nerf stick to stop people from using them as primary HQs, but I for one miss the disgusting Smurfpriests of yesteryear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedwin183 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I've often thought about giving Cassius a run. Really, though, the only place I use a chaplain is if I have a full strength assault squad on the board...in which case I give the chap a JP. Because of this, I don't really see the need, ever, to bring Cassius. It's kind of the same thing with a couple of the other special characters as well. I've never found Sicarius to be entirely worth his points OR useful. I am a Lysander-over-Calgar person as well, so Calgar is right out. Lastly, I just don't see the need for Khan unless you're playing White Scars or a "White Scar Style" army. I pretty much stick with He'stan, Lysander, Telion...and I have yet to use Pedro or Shrike, but from all the lists I've seen, they are keepers as well. I'd steer clear of Cassius though, unless you want a totally useless but fun list...then include him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Cassius + Vanguard Squad in a Land Raider works. But yeah, for the rest he's not easy to fit into an army because of the lack of fast-attack style options for him - which is a real kicker when the Chaplain special rules only really benefit assault units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockdeity Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 are you guys even reading my posts? ^^ My point isn't whether chaplains are good or not. I believe they are but that is a whole other topic. My point is, if you are going to get term armor for your chaplain... assuming you are taking a chaplain... then you should take cassius because it gives you 99% of the benefit plus some extra stuff (like T6) for 5 points less than the term armor. Out of a LR is the most obvious choice. I don't see how else you would transpor power armor assault units other than jump pack or bike. And normally, protecting them from shooting in a LR is better than the other two options. If you want a full strength assault squad when they hit the target, jump packs is hardly ideal, so no real loss for cassius there. I agree with you on Sicarius but that is also not the topic of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kairos Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 If I collect loyalists, I'm only gonna field a JP chappy with an assault squad. Also, Cassius' combi-weapon looks more like a combi-melta, not a combi-flamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Oh a chaplain with a Terminator squad is well worth it. Every miss really hurts with Terminators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kairos Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I agree - actually, I'd probably do that - Termie Chaplain with assault termies w/2LCs. Rerolls to hit and wound power wapons. Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 The point the OP was making stands tho. A Rosarius is already better than the Terminator invuln. It comes down to T6 vs. a 2+ save and relentless with a boltgun. And Cassius has a second hand weapon. The only other thing is that Cassius can't have digital weapons, which are generally on my Chaplain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiodome Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 always nice to have someone that can soak up an instant death wound without dying too, with T6 the only things causing instant death will be those rare things with special rules like sicarus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockdeity Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 The point the OP was making stands tho. A Rosarius is already better than the Terminator invuln. It comes down to T6 vs. a 2+ save and relentless with a boltgun. And Cassius has a second hand weapon. The only other thing is that Cassius can't have digital weapons, which are generally on my Chaplain. yeah, we almost got it now. Only the 2+ save isn't an issue either because as I mentioned, unless you are taking AP3 hits, 2+ save is statistically equivalent to a 3+ save with FnP. Therefore, cassius is superior to the term armor chappy in terms of defense unless the weapon is AP3, and even then, the T6 probably helps out enough to make it worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banville Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 In response to this thread I reappraised Cassius' entry in the Codex and I have to say I am astounded that the guy is only 125pts. I run a Salamanders Army (and have done since 2nd Ed, long before the He'Stan bandwagon got rolling) and have come to the conclusion that Cassius is now my second-favourite character. Look at the guy's positives:- 1 - You keep Combat Tactics 2 - He's got a boltpistol and Crozius, giving him 4 attacks on the charge 3 - Immune to most forms of Instant Death 6 - Feel No Pain 7 - Litanies of Hate 8 - Synergy with both flavours of Assault Termies 9 - He's got a flamer 10 - He's cheap as chips The Negatives boil down to:- 1 - No Army-Wide ability 2 - He needs a transport, but then again so do Termies 3 - He's not Vulkan He'Stan I'm really amazed he's not featuring in more army builds, especially in those builds by posters who espouse the value of cheap HQ's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumour Control Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Ive been using him for a few weeks now, Even with a 5 man combat squad with sergeant with powerfist and a melta gun in there he seems to get the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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