Dreadnaught Advice

[jester_prince]

Okay basicaly, ive taken this forums advice and got hold of two dreadnaughts as a replacment for my landraider (redeemer) at low point battles and a addition in higher point battles. ones my old smurf one that i used ONCE, and the other is a plastic kit one. The metal one is armed with a lascannon and a missile launcher but i cant change that without ordering new bits, but i was wondering what the other should be armed with. and what equipment should be taken.

 

Also what would be the best tactics for them?

 

Also a little advice on land speeders if they have shot at you over cover can you shoot at them? or are they counted as haveing droped behind cover immediatly after shooting. I had a little trouble with my landraider and a multimelta speeder.

[Doomaflatchi]

Good questions, jester_prince - I'll see what I can do to answer them. :)

 

First off, the combination of a Twin-Linked Lascannon and a Missile Launcher (also referred to as the "Hellfire" configuration) is a GREAT outfit for your Dreadnoughts. Keep in mind that if you're using the Dreads to replace a Land Raider, then they become your army's only anti-tank option, and the new 5th Ed vehicle rules mean that you can plan to see more and more heavy armor as time goes on. As a result, I would always advise keeping your Dreads fully set in that anti-armor role (especially since Grey Knights have almost no other options for anti-tank firepower).

 

For the second one, you can never go wrong with another Hellfire configuration - it keeps all of your guns at a 48" range, which is awesome, and the Lascannons can punch through just about anything your opponent can field. If you do feel like you need some variation, however, the Plasma Cannon is a personal favorite of mine. AP2 Blast is not to be taken lightly, as it can shred squads of Terminators with relative ease. The only downside is that it only has a 36" range, which exposes you to more anti-armor return fire (like Bright/Dark Lances). Definitely take the Missile Launcher, though - I would never really advise taking the Close Combat Weapon on the left arm, as Terminators just frankly do the job better, and keeping the Dreadnought at maximum range is the surest way to keep it safe and alive.

 

As for how to use them, remember that their survivability is maximized the further they are away from your opponent. Most anti-armor weaponry is pretty short range (12" Meltagun, 24" Multimelta), and even the heavy stuff usually tapers off around 36" (like Bright/Dark Lances, Starcannons, or Venom Cannons). The more things you can shoot at without being shot back, the better. As a result, they should shadow the battle, approaching only as close as they need to in order to fire their weapons. With two Dreads, one on each side works great, as they can then reasonably cover the entire board between them. Just don't let them get assaulted - once they get bogged down in an assault, they're likely to stay there until they die or the game ends. With only 2 S6 attacks, they can't defend themselves very well. Keep them away and take advantage of cover, and they'll do you proud.

 

With regards to the Speeder, the True Line of Sight rules require LOS to be drawn from the gun itself on a regular Games Workshop base for that model. Thus, if it's on a speeder base, it can't just decide to change altitude whenever it wants. Chances are, unless your gun is mounted very low on your model, if it can shoot you, you can shoot back.

[jester_prince]

Thanks youve been a fantastic help, so speeders can no longer fly up over cover to shoot at you or have they never been able to and i just misread the old rules.

 

What of vehicle upgrades are they best to keep them cheap as you can?

[Doomaflatchi]

Speeders can fly up high enough to shoot over cover, if the cover is low enough that the speeder base naturally places the Speeder higher than the cover. However, if they are above the cover enough to shoot, they cannot then decide to "drop down" beneath it.

 

As far as vehicle upgrades, my opinion (and I encourage other people to offer their own, as mine is kind of one-sided) is that most of them are simply not worth it. Smoke Launchers, however (which are the one exception), should always be at least considered. While they leave you unable to shoot, they go a long way towards keeping your Dreadnought alive long enough to get out of a jam. The classic example is a deep-striking Terminator squad with combi-meltas dropping in right next to your Dread, in which case you pop the smokes and run, shooting at them with everyone else while they're caught out in the open. Extra armor is really more helpful for Close Combat Dreads, as it still allows them to move towards the foe, but has limited usefulness if you're sitting 48" away from the enemy. There are absolutely circumstances in which it could be helpful, but only if those points are not better spent elsewhere in your army. Finally, Blessed can be a great help against Psyker-heavy armies (since it gives the Dreadnought the protection of the Aegis), but before spending points on this, check and make sure that your opponent has any psychic powers that affect vehicles - most of them don't!

[Wrath]

I like to take Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers, and Hunter-Killer Missiles, with the occasional Blessed upgrade (for protection from psychic powers mostly). The first two are pretty standard, while the third I like since it gives my Hellfire builds an extra weapon for absorbing damage (and besides, if it ever has a good shot at something important, then why not throw an extra missile at it?). From what I can tell most GK players don't agree, but oh well. Needless to say, Hellfire armaments are the only ones I use.

[number6]

For DH armies, hellfire dreads are a practical necessity if you're not fielding land raiders in the list. And even if you are, extra heavy weaponry is never amiss in an army that cannot field heavy weaponry in its infantry. The GKs themselves are more than capable of handily slaughtering infantry -- the main role for dreadnoughts armed with DCCW arms -- so it is beneficial to free up your dreadnoughts for tasks for which the GKs themselves are ill-suited.

 

Where Doomaflatchi doesn't find extra armour essential, I have always sworn by it and cannot conceive of taking any DH vehicles into battle without it. For a mere 5 pts, you can guarantee that you can maneuver your dread unless it is immobilized or destroyed. Even at extreme range, dreads can and will take return fire (if you can fire a lascannon/missile at an enemy tank, it can also fire a lascannon/missile back at you if you don't destroy it!), so maintaining the ability to control line of sight to/from the dread is crucial to keeping it alive. Keep the dread near cover -- sight-blocking, if at all possible, otherwise trying to ensure cover saves for it -- and as Doomaflatchi noted, you will be able to keep them alive right through the end of most games.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I made a similar post a while ago.. which is good reading to supplement these answers:

 

DH Dread Armament

 

The conclusion I took away from it, was a TL Lascannon/DCCW dread would be what I would get eventually.. one day..

[Windswept]

Since we are so lacking in AT it is best to always have a Lascannon on our dreads. Although i am very fond of the MM. At the very least one of those 2. The other arm should have an Incinerator or Heavy Flamer on a DCCW. I prefer this choice because i can walk the dread up with my raiders and initiate a charege with my Terms or PAGK and then counter charge with my Dread. Nowadays most people are avoiding dreads all together and just taking 3 raiders in their lists 2 Godhammers, and 1 crusader, But thats for pure GKs. Anyways hope this kind of helps.

 

Oh and one more thing i prefer to not have athe LAs/ML dreads at all. I would rather the ML arm be more effective with CC and flaming stuff. Its preference as i dont like letting my dreads just sit back and fire. Thats why they have legs and now can run.

[Aidoneus]

Lascannon/Missile Launcher works excellently. You can never go wrong with it. Take Extra Armour, and possibly Smoke if you have the points.

 

I don't like plasma in 5th edition, because scattering just makes it too likely to miss. After all, the best targets (termies, command squads, etc) are very elite, and therefore come in small bunches, which makes them easy to scatter off of.

 

One other great use of dreadnoughts, besides long-range support, is to bascially augment your main-line squads. Leave the DCCW on, and give them either an Assault Cannon or Multi-Melta. This gives them the same effective range as PAGKs, and pretty good CC ability too. I like the assault cannon version for this role, but MM would be better if your army in general lacks anti-tank.

 

For smaller points games (1250 and below), I'd almost always leave the DCCW on. The dreadnought is more dominant in close combat in smaller matches, and at the same time it won't need the extra shooting power as much. Lascannons are good choices here, as are assault cannons.

 

Lastly, I like to put in a good word for the oft-overlooked autocannon. With two twin-linked shots at S7 with long range, it's excellent for taking down smaller vehicles, like speeders, vypers, buggies, etc. It's also good against side armour. I like take one Auto/missile dread to complement one or two las/missile dreads. Spread them out, and at least one will have shots against side armour, making the autocannon good against tougher vehicles, and the lascannons positively deadly.

[Grand Master Iapetus]

With 5e, the only time I use the dreads is at real high or real low point values. They tend to be very vulnerable to shooting. The GK LR is just so much better in terms of shrugging off wounds or taking them and still using POTMS to throw down smack.

 

Doomaflatchi has some solid advice regarding the hellfire config. I will usually run 2 hellfire with one TLLC and one Plasma Cannon. I really like the PC for infantry and light armor - maybe I just have a good scatter dice...

 

However, with the new damage table I don't take EA...it was great in 4e.

 

In apoc games I have dropped the MLs and taken the DCCW if I know I can flank march or bring them in on turn 2-3 when I know there will be some enemy armor on my side of the table.

[Spartans]

Here are the options I take and again as said by others only take at low points games 750 and below as soon as I hit 1000 I take a land raider now.

 

Dread plus twin linked lascannon and missile launcher 140 pts

 

or

 

Dread plus twin linked lascannon and close combat weapon and incinirator 145 pts

 

or

 

Dread plus autocannon and close combat weapon and incinirator 130 pts