The God Emperor Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 How can I convinced my GW/LGS to let me use the plucking wargear rules from the Codex: Space Marines. Take a look at this, take word for word from the 'IMPORTANT:' line. Space Wolves may NOT pick wargear from the armoury in Codex: Space Marines and must take all of their equipment from the list below. A number of entries are basically the same as their counterpart in the standard Space Marines Armoury and, in this case, we've noted this by writing the entry in italics below. There is a brieft description of how these items work on the summary page later in this Codex but you should refer to the Wargear section in the Codex: Space Marines for a full description. :mellow: What kind of pecktart of a person to not see this? Codex: Dark Angels and Black Templars were stand alones, CODEX: SPACE WOLVES IS <DELETED BY THE INQUISITION>ING SUPPLEMENT. Where can you find the kind of save a storm shield will give you if you can't find it in the Codex: Space Wolves? The codex even told you to go look in the Codex Space Marines and not the the codex blood angels or dark angels or bloody black templars. :lol: I don't get access to fancy new ammunition, I didn't get access to fancy new units (aside from the LRR). You're gonna force me to look in the 4th edtion codex space marines when it's outdated? Too bad for the Black Templars/Dark Angels, they got stand alones. I've got a book that is easily ten years old and is comparable to a catalog in size. How will I bloody change their mind? Or will I have to abandon them and opt for an even smaller GW that MIGHT or MIGHT NOT accept our view's stance. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 The Space Wolves Codex says to get the full rules for wargear form Codex: Space Marines. I don't see how that's unclear. What are they forcing you to use the 4th Edition Codex? That's not even right, the Codex out at the time of the Space Wolves dex was the 3rd Edition Codex. For that to make sense you should be using that Codex, and that's just bull. The SW Dex says look in the Space Marines Codex, not the 3rd Edition codex, not the 4th Edition codex. There's no reason what so ever that you are somehow banned from using the 5th Edition Codex. Next time they try to pull that, just point out the illogic calmly and if they persist call them poor sportsman and pansies. Other than that I can't think of anything you can do, you can't force them to see logic or sense, though a good dreadsocking might be satisfying. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Yeah, show them the rules... and then play by them. If you cant convince whoevers in charge of the local tournament talk with the players there.... and convince them. If enough of them see whats what youll eventually chnage the mind of the organizers by sheer numbers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The God Emperor Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 The problem is, the manager of the GW. ;) I showed a player I was playing against and he goes "Yeah you can't pick wargears from the Codex: Space Marines". What a fkn ;). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 The problem is, the manager of the GW. ;) I showed a player I was playing against and he goes "Yeah you can't pick wargears from the Codex: Space Marines". What a fkn ;). I don't get how anyone could say that. The codex very specifically says: "you should refer to the Wargear section in Codex: Space Marines for a full description." The SW Codex says it in black and white, if they disagree show them the rules, if they're still not getting it, tell them to check here or heck even call another GW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The God Emperor Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Thanks Vash, I'll go down to my local GW armed with that, you too GM. ;). This thursday games night. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I don't get access to fancy new ammunition, I didn't get access to fancy new units (aside from the LRR) and dreadnoughts and drop pods and vindicators etc etc . + yeah you may not get guard units [that arent very good to beging with . vengard is overpriced and to play sternguard you need a special build and/or pedro] , but you have cheap fists , cheap plasma ,more attacks on HQs [because SW HQ had "build in" terminator honors] and the counter attack rule that thank to berzerker rule on BC generates a lot of hate . all that leds to people thinking that SW are unbalanced and that they get the best of both worlds [ss/tanks/transports and cheap stuff with lots of attacks] , but your still lucky . there are places in the wolrd where because of that the SW dex was banned from tournament play . now that sucks . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Actually, he's quite right. You don't pick Wargear from C:SM, you pick it from C:SW. You take the rules from C:SM, because that's where it says they are. Is he a BT/DA/BA player by any chance? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Hengist Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I've got the same problem at my local GW Store, the manager has the common sense of a warp slug. I went down with the pack played a few games and won a few. Then he starts coming out with the crap mentioned above, I've basically slapped him in the face with the FAQ etc but he is having none of it. But this is coming from the same guy who has no idea of new releases and closes the store at lunchtime I'm very tempted to put a complaint in. On the other hand I'm fortunate enough to live near two GW stores and I have no problems at that store. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Space Wolves use the rules for all wargear in italics, clearly stated. The other problem is they think you have to use the 4th Ed SM Codex....where, ANYWHERE, does it state that you use a specific edition of a codex....for anything? Unless specifically stated you use the most current version, unless agreed upon to use something different by the players (or the TO says to, which means EVERYONE must use, say, the 4th Ed SM Codex). The only other thing I can think of is to go elsewhere, because obviously quite.....how shall I put this tactfully???....demented. It sucks but as Ron White put it...you can't fix stupid. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The God Emperor Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Actually, he's quite right. You don't pick Wargear from C:SM, you pick it from C:SW. You take the rules from C:SM, because that's where it says they are. Is he a BT/DA/BA player by any chance? Of course I didn't take the storm shield from the C:SM, I picked it from ours for 5 dollars/points for my Wolfguard. I don't know the manager plays Blood Angel or some other shafted first foundings. The jesk: That may be unfortunate but it's GW fault for letting our codex be so old since most of it's rules are 2ed behind, blame GW. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 By the old 2nd Edition Wolves Codex and tell him if he wants you to play with an old Codex, you might as well do it properly and play with a stand alone Wolves Codex. He'll be begging you to use the 5th Ed SM rules in a couple of games. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 vassakov has got it. if he keeps giving you a hard time, just use the equipment as stated in or summary sheet. usually i get to about turn 3 and who ever i am playing starts the game over with me using 5th ed rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
obs0l3te Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Do what the rest of us do... If you go down and play, and set a game up, tell your opp what you are using / doing. BEFORE the game... If they don't like it don't play, and tell the peanut gallery to keep their mouths shut. page 14 Codex spacewolves 2nd paragraph.... "IMPORTANT: Space Wolves may not pick wargear from the armoury in Codex: Space Marines and msut take all of their equipment from the list below......but you should refer to the wargear section in CODEX: Space Marines for a full description" FAQ: Second col "Space Wolf Vehicles: Use the point costs and rules from codex: Space Marines for Dread.......and not the Space Marines army list." (only issue with this the face that it doesn't say rhino or RB but any one with a brain can see it says "ALL OF THE DIFFERENT VARIANTS AND OPTIONS AVAILAbLE TO THESE UNITS......") I'm guessing they want you to use the summary in the back of the book, page 31, well if thats the case most of the weapons in question have a * next to them and tell you to use the "special" rules in the warhammer 40000 rule book.... hmm looks like codex space wolves doesn't tell you what these are and some of them are not in the rule book so you have to use codex space marines. If he wants to make you use old codex space marine rules, hell I don't see in my space wolf codex where it says I have to have TWO power fists to have an extra attack. I'll take my Power Fist and Bolt Pistol combo and take my extra attack for two CC weapons. Thanks. Its people like that guy that ruin the game for every one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Unfortunately its in the Ruel Book not the Codex that says you need 2 powerfists to get the extra attack. Are they making you use the gear from the 4th ed C:SM? When ever a codex si refered to the edition is not given because they ONLY refere to the latest edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Unfortunately its in the Ruel Book not the Codex that says you need 2 powerfists to get the extra attack. Yea except the codex supposedly trumps the BGB. It's not technically legal anyway but you could deffinitely run someone around for several hours of debate before they proved it. Hehe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Yeah, Codex trumps rulebook....however us Wolves are more honorable than that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 codex does trump rule book when there is a contradicting rule, i'd like for you to point out where in the SW codex it says you get an extra attack for a powerfist + ccw Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 In the "reference sheet" where it says "Close Combat Weapon Summary" the sentence underneath that title it says "Important: Any model armed with two weapons from this list receives +1 attack." (Space Wolf Codex)....it then goes on to list the different weapons....hence according to that you would get the +1A....just so we are clear I am NOT advocating this as it is wrong, however in accordance with the topic of people thinking we don't use the Space Marine Codex but the Space Wolf Codex for our weapons and description....... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1838985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corver Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 The reason It doesnt mention the Rhino or RB in the FAQ is that in the dex it says 'refer to codex SM' under Rhino and RB. Well spotted on the +1 A for a PF/CCW. Also the SW smoke launchers turn penetrating hits to glancing hits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1841649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 The reason It doesnt mention the Rhino or RB in the FAQ is that in the dex it says 'refer to codex SM' under Rhino and RB. Well spotted on the +1 A for a PF/CCW. Also the SW smoke launchers turn penetrating hits to glancing hits. I might wanna check the Rhino/ Razorback thing if so i have a valid point when some wisenose starts screaming. As for the add attack i just go with the big book so no add attack. But truegritt can help greatly here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1841711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 LOL Well yeah Spacefrisian, I am not saying that we GET the extra attack, merely pointing out that since the Codex trumps rulebook and how some people want us to use our Codex for our rules and wargear stuff.....under that pretense you would get the extra attack =P Again, I am NOT saying we get an extra attack, just pointing out something for those people that have to put up with the mildly mentally handicapped players they must deal with. =D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1842102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
obs0l3te Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Well by Russ's beer soaked underpants!!! page 10 Under Special Rules (blood claw entry?) Transport Vehicles: Certain Space Wolves squads can take a rhino or razorback as a transport vehicle. Details of these vehicles can be found in Codex: Space Marines. Note ...... (.....service for the entire army!). hurm... Seems to be that the faq doesn't HAVE to cover Rhinos and Razorbacks with this entry. Common Sense, RAW, and Spirit of the game points to this paragraph, and if EVERY other single thing uses C:SM then... logically ... yeah.. sweet. And i'm kinda shocked that no one picked up page 31 1st line under CLOSE COMBAT WEAPON SUMMARY... "Important: Any Model Armed with two weapons from this list receives +1 attack" Weapons listed... EVERY THING. I'll trade my Heavy 4 rending Assault Cannons for that.. haha. Hell i'll pay the extra points for the rhino and razor back if they want me to use the codex point lists. I guess the question to ask would be... Do you want me to use every thing as written in C:SW or use the FAQ and Common sense? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1842238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Common Sense, RAW, and Spirit of the game points to this paragraph... and here it is, the thing that comes around every time this kind of subject resurfaces around anywhere but it happens here a lot. saddly most people don't have this "common sense" thing. people just don't think. i always liked the commercial for a bank i think, where they say "people are smart", i liked to finish it with "no, a person is smart, persons together forming people are dumb". you would have to know the commercial to get it, but i always think of it when people put up a fight to space wolves in general. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1842294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Common sense is no longer common, sadly. Every day I am more and more thankful to play in the store I do, with the people I play with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/157157-why-dont-they-see-it/#findComment-1842431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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