theredcorsair Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Though chaos armies are much the same as the space marines the points are quite randomly very different Firsts first the land raider the two land raiders are exactly the same but they have POTMS a CSM land raider is 220 pts while the other is 250 pts. Even if you give a land raider daemonic possesion which is better than POTMS it only comes up to 240 pts. Im also thinkin about termies point cost but im not entirely sure yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 You'll notice that many things are different between the CSM book and the loyalists. The values of everything is written in context of the entire army list, not just by comparing to other armies units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Chaos_Brute Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Chaos LRs do not have PotMS, carry 10 models instead of 12, have no other options (no Crusader or Redeemer), and Daemonic Possession is not that much better than PotMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kairos Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 It reduces your chance to hit, but ignores shaken and stunned? I'd rather have PotMS, which lets you fire a weapon no matter how far you moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 potms lets you fire at different targets , if I remember right . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 yeah you may always fire one extra weapon at a different target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelestialSon Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'd rather bunker and always fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 well the nice thing with PotMS if you move 12 inch towards the enemy with a transported squad you can still fire a weapon at BS4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelestialSon Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 It's an issue of balance. If chaos marines could move 12 inches, assualt and shoot a BS4 lascannon, that would be overpowered. I like the differences in CSM and SM units, it helps to define both armies better. There's nothing subtle about CSM units, they're all rough and tumble, no tricks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_wu Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Is not lash sort of a trick though. I mean you are tricking your opponents to move. The phsic powers should have some tricks though. Anyway with the land raiders if we had that then everyone would put 10 berserkers in them and rush while taking out tanks with the lascannon. That would be broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Humongous Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 It's an issue of balance. If chaos marines could move 12 inches, assualt and shoot a BS4 lascannon, that would be overpowered. I like the differences in CSM and SM units, it helps to define both armies better. There's nothing subtle about CSM units, they're all rough and tumble, no tricks Normal SM's can load up their LR withequally nasty stuff though, can't they? Sure, berserkers in a 12 move and shoot LR would be mean, but so are various SM units... Not really sure which SM units / rules you think are subtle. Seems to me most just let you ignore annoying morale / close combat effects other armies (CSM included, though to a lesser extent than many) have to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganuus Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I don't really care about any differences in the codex. I think that they balance against each other well, in my experience. I play both armies. The only thing that I don't like is being helpless to psychic attack. Chaos...helpless against attacks from the immaterium? That's the only thing that gets me. Even if it was less powerful as a hood, I'd still think we'd get something....but that's another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raulmichile Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 In fact, the only ones who receive psychic protection are SM. They are the exception, not the norm. I would rather take psychic hoods from marines than giving some sort of protection to other armies. But that's me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 And Eldar--and, of course, Grey Knights or any army with an Inquisitor. Oh, and Daemons do, too. Really, it's just Necrons, Chaos, Tau, Nids, Orks, and maybe Dark Eldar that don't. Necrons and Tau and maybe Orks should be in that list, but it seems more than a little dubious that Nids, Chaos, and Dark Eldar are. Daemons should have better anti-psyker, too, really. What they have is sorta weak. Though, it is nice that their 'psychic powers' are actually guns, as far as the rules are concerned, and thus immune to others' abilities to shut down psykers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbaron997 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Nids can get protection to with "Shadow of the Warp" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Yeah, but that's just an all-round leadership debuff, right? It doesn' specifically hit psyckers, it's not that powerful, and it doesn't have the range necessary to be really effective protection. Unless I'm thinking of something else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbaron997 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 No i think you are thinking of The Horror or another one, Shadow of the Warp makes all tests be made on 3d6 with dropping the lowest, but it also negats all Perils of the Warp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Ah, fair enough. I guess that's something. It's not runes of Warding, but still. So, really, most armies have anti-psyker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berserker Doug Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I thought it was really lame with the difference in transport capacity.... i mean what 10,000 years and there just now finding where Ad Mech but an extra hiding space and the Chaos guys can't seem to find it?? stupid POFTMS- well.... its pretty stupid. and by stupid i mean a little on the broken side. but its not super drastic i suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kairos Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 No i think you are thinking of The Horror or another one, Shadow of the Warp makes all tests be made on 3d6 with dropping the lowest, but it also negats all Perils of the Warp. Psychic Scream gives -1 Ld to enemy units in 18". Shadow in the Warp makes all enemy Psychic Tests on 3D6 and ADDS them all together, but negates Perils - it doesn't discard any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askari Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Space marines rely on their non-Troops choices for all their real damage dealing power and their generic HQ' are really only good for squad buffs (they nerfed captains to oblivion outside of an all bike force, 100 points basic with no power weapon or rites of battle!?) In contrast Chaos troops choices can do the same stuff as a lot of Space Marine elites and still hold objectives. And our HQ's are made to be damaging but not very survivable with no one having better than a 4+ save. But our HQ's make up for it in killing power Daemon weapons, 4+ monstrous creature attacks, warp blade an damaging psychic powers. Plus we have marks that can make our units do even more damage or allow them to take more damage though the latter are overcosted and ineffective. The other slots are really just to take out certain types of targets our regular CSM's and cult troops would take too long to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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