minigun762 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Has anyone else noticed a general trend where Sorcerers are not well liked, even in Chaos. The first two examples that spring to mind are in Storm of Iron and Dark Disciple, both cases the Sorcerers are treated as tools, much in the same way a member of the Dark Adeptus would be treated. There is references to characters outright saying things along the lines of "Sorcerers are tricksters, weak, can't be trusted etc etc". So while a Loyalist Librarian might not be loved, he's atleast respected and his fellow Marines are happy to have him, especially against Chaos but a Sorcerer is not normally treated even this well. Does anyone have any other examples, either supporting or refuting my little hypothesis here? Sidenote: I think one of the best examples of the power of a Sorcerer is from Battle for the Abyss and Mhotep's battle against the daemons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 the sorcerer in Dark Adeptus is hated as well and treates like cur. personally i don't like sorcerers in fluff either and the only ones i like are Magnus the Red and Mhotep. the thousand sons would surely like them a lot ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 the sorcerer in Dark Adeptus is hated as well and treates like cur. personally i don't like sorcerers in fluff either and the only ones i like are Magnus the Red and Mhotep. the thousand sons would surely like them a lot ^_^ Oh nice addition, I haven't read that yet. Sounds to me that unless you were lucky enough to get into the Thousand Sons, being a Sorcerer kinda sucks. But that just doesn't seem to fit, I mean you have all the power of the warp and its denizens at your control, why should you be taking orders from someone else? It would be kinda interesting to see a powerful Sorcerer in a book acting as a leader and not just an advisor or toady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbaron997 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I agree, other than Magnus and Mhotep i have never liked any other sorcerers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flintlocklaser Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 But that just doesn't seem to fit, I mean you have all the power of the warp and its denizens at your control, why should you be taking orders from someone else? It would be kinda interesting to see a powerful Sorcerer in a book acting as a leader and not just an advisor or toady. I agree, but I think it might have at least as much to do with the point of view of the people writing the fluff as any real 'in-universe' antipathy for Sorcerors. I'd love to see one written well fluff-wise too, however. Like you said, it seems odd that the guy with all the warpcraft never winds up as the leader.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AekoldHelbrass Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 But that just doesn't seem to fit, I mean you have all the power of the warp and its denizens at your control, why should you be taking orders from someone else? It would be kinda interesting to see a powerful Sorcerer in a book acting as a leader and not just an advisor or toady. Storm Of Iron describes it pretty good. Sorcerer is able to see more that mere mortal, much more. For example sorcerer can see that Chaos Gods have no great plans about him, but they have plans about some lord of chaos. Sorcerer is very usefull for chaos lords, so lord (who is not able to see variants of future) will be glad to use sorcerer, while sorcerer can manipulate a bit with chaos lord, and may be some day Chaos Gods will notice him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 One thing you have to remember about chaos sorcerors, to gain power they have to make sacrafices... and they are far more willing to sacrifice other chaos marines than themselves.... this is not going to endear them to many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 One thing you have to remember about chaos sorcerors, to gain power they have to make sacrafices... and they are far more willing to sacrifice other chaos marines than themselves.... this is not going to endear them to many. True, but that seems like it gives him more reason to want to be the boss. That way you have far more resources to put together for your sacrifices and dark pacts. If anything, wouldn't the soul of a Psyker be a more obvious target (for consumption or blessing) for the Dark Gawds? EDIT: It just seems to me that Sorcerers are a better embodiment of the whole "big risks, big rewards" nature of Chaos than Lords/Champions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dràyhèn Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 But that just doesn't seem to fit, I mean you have all the power of the warp and its denizens at your control, why should you be taking orders from someone else? It would be kinda interesting to see a powerful Sorcerer in a book acting as a leader and not just an advisor or toady. I agree, but I think it might have at least as much to do with the point of view of the people writing the fluff as any real 'in-universe' antipathy for Sorcerors. I'd love to see one written well fluff-wise too, however. Like you said, it seems odd that the guy with all the warpcraft never winds up as the leader.... Because they're so over-arrogant and they do the dirty job (summoning), that's why. Lords and commanders don't get their hands dirty, they let their subordinates do that. It would be funny looking at some almighty chaos lord taking orders from a way more inferior thing. Just think about it, almost the same as in Ork society, the mightiest gets the command, and that makes sense. And besides, they fit better to their advisor role. They're useful tools and dangerous individuals, but nothing more. Only exception to this are Thousand Sons, but that's just one and only. I think the only situation where they would fit to commander's role, is when they're operating on some smaller skirmish. Think it that way :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 True, but that seems like it gives him more reason to want to be the boss. That way you have far more resources to put together for your sacrifices and dark pacts. The sorcerer is the boss, the lord just doesn't know it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berserker Doug Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 The sorcerer is the boss, the lord just doesn't know it ;) Reminds me of the first DoW book. Poor Lord Bale, Sindri ftw. But on my opinion, I don't like the sorcerors as much as i like the librarians. I don't know why, sorceror just don't seem to bring the pain( unless you lash... but suck for doing that) like new dex Librarians can. Lords on the other hand are beastly... just the way I like them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sword brethren Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 space marines are more, "hello brother" and therefore closer bonds i suppose, where as chaos dont really have that out look, i do like the idea that chaos are currupt and jealous of their fellow marines aswell. Magnus the red is awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Well generally speaking its not a good idea to have a deamon summoner as the boss.... you know that sooner or later they will get eaten.... but as to why chaos doesn't always want psyker sacrafices.... if they took the psykers all the time... they'd have no one left to open the warp for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berserker Doug Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Well generally speaking its not a good idea to have a deamon summoner as the boss.... you know that sooner or later they will get eaten.... which reminds of something funny. do pyskers just have bigger brains or do their brains taste better? which leads me to another question..... are warp entities similiar to zombies? cuz ya know they eat brains and all..... but on a serious side sorceror always seem to be the evil behind it all but, they also play with some serious fire (or warp fire, your call) i know i wouldn't wanna be commanded by someone who demands constant sacrifice for HIS gain, not yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flintlocklaser Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 i know i wouldn't wanna be commanded by someone who demands constant sacrifice for HIS gain, not yours. And this would be different from a non-sorcerous chaos warlord how exactly? He's not in it for the well-being of his underlings either.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berserker Doug Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 i know i wouldn't wanna be commanded by someone who demands constant sacrifice for HIS gain, not yours. And this would be different from a non-sorcerous chaos warlord how exactly? He's not in it for the well-being of his underlings either.... well.. i'd rather run bolter blazing then just falling back on a ritual blade. Cuz then at least you could make a name for yourself. If you live and receive gifts from the ruinious powers youself, you could possibly turn into a war-mongering power hungry madman youself!! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flintlocklaser Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 well.. i'd rather run bolter blazing then just falling back on a ritual blade. Cuz then at least you could make a name for yourself. If you live and receive gifts from the ruinious powers youself, you could possibly turn into a war-mongering power hungry madman youself!! ;) Heh, fair enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 i know i wouldn't wanna be commanded by someone who demands constant sacrifice for HIS gain, not yours. And this would be different from a non-sorcerous chaos warlord how exactly? He's not in it for the well-being of his underlings either.... I'm pretty sure that most Sorcerers would probably have their underlings go hunt for other sacrifices. It reminds me of that scene in the Necron codex I think, where Abaddon summons a daemon using the body of a Space Wolf. A deal could easily be made requiring X number of Imperial souls or worlds. Using a more generic fantasy kind of example, its like the evil wizard who has the big brutish bodyguard to protect him, instead of the flip side with the commander/general/warlord who has his advisor as his assistant. EDIT: Oh one thing that would be interesting, someone has to be involved with Possessing all those vehicles or making those Defilers, so it would be kinda cool to have a daemonologist represented by your Sorcerer. Kind of like a magical equivalent of the Master of the Forge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berserker Doug Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Oh one thing that would be interesting, someone has to be involved with Possessing all those vehicles or making those Defilers, so it would be kinda cool to have a daemonologist represented by your Sorcerer. Kind of like a magical equivalent of the Master of the Forge. now that you say something, it would be pretty sweet to see a sorceror mid-battlefield just go up to a... monolith (for laughs) and summon daemons to possess it. that would be one hell of a sight. vanguard of bloodthirsty genetically enhanced soldiers marching with a daemon monolith right behind em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiri the Corrupted Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 A bit like that old psycic power that allowed you to turn foes into spawns! One time I turned my friends C'tan into my spawn, he later told me that he felt abused and dirty. Loyalist: 'Look at my new LR redeemer, it's new and shiney and costs a lot of points. It's the center of my army and essential for the succes of my plans!' Chaos: 'Cool, now it's mine. Chaos sorcerer says so and his daemon pals agree. Now hand over the goods...' Loyalist: 'Daaww... Now it's burning my Vulkan-look a like...' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hereticus Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 A bit like that old psycic power that allowed you to turn foes into spawns! One time I turned my friends C'tan into my spawn, he later told me that he felt abused and dirty. Thats still around. Nothing beats the look on your opponents face when his Wraithlord/Hive Tyrant/ Marneus Calgar turns into a flesh eating pile of goop before his eyes. It's even better in Apoc, where you can take whole squads of sorcerors using the Tzeentch Cabal formation (not the proper name for it, but I am at work) and just fire off 8-9 Gift of Chaos at a time. You pretty much gauranteed too transform you target with those odds. I would also assume that it would work on Tyranid bio-titans too. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berserker Doug Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Thats still around. Nothing beats the look on your opponents face when his Wraithlord/Hive Tyrant/ Marneus Calgar turns into a flesh eating pile of goop before his eyes. It's even better in Apoc, where you can take whole squads of sorcerors using the Tzeentch Cabal formation (not the proper name for it, but I am at work) and just fire off 8-9 Gift of Chaos at a time. You pretty much gauranteed too transform you target with those odds. I would also assume that it would work on Tyranid bio-titans too. :P OOOOO you sir disgust me, with your gross abuse in power. thankfully i'm a chaos player and still respect abusive power :) and i think i've read the stats for the bio-titan and i believe it has regular stat-line (not vehicle stats) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hereticus Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Heh, I used to do it in 3rd ed when you could get all sorceror chosen squads. 9 Sorcerors all with gift of chaos made me very unpopular ::yes:: Especially when I sprung 1/2 dozen spawn up in the middle of an IG formation. That was just messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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