Defilers, Conversions, and Opponent's Permission

[CastratedCow]

This came up in another thread, and I was quite confused by it.

 

if you have problems with the defiler model i have seen some conversions to make them scorpians which i beleive is also khorne fluffy!

 

and each time your opponent and you have problems with checking you have to replace the coneverted scorpion with the model of a legal defiler [so you have to buy 3+ defielers of which you will never use 1].

 

What? As long as it's WYSIWYG and consists of mostly citadel parts, why would you have to replace the model?

 

because if there is a legal GW model for it and your checking LoS , while you and your opponent disagree , if it is seen or not or if it gets cover or not . spiders or scorpions conversions are much smaller then the huge defiler , in most cases your scorpion will at least get cover while a "normal" defiler may not even get that] .

 

But a "normal" defiler can be modeled squished to the ground, all splayed out, without making any conversions.

 

Besides, if you have shorter defiler, you can't draw a clear LOS to your opponent either. The disadvantage seems to go both ways.

 

Has their been a published ruling on conversions like this? I was under the impression that conversions were encouraged as long as they meet those two criteria (wysiwyg and GW parts).

 

So can you really not convert a Defiler to look more aesthetically pleasing? I was browsing cmon and came across this. Obviously it still needs the cannon mounted on it, but really that's the only Defiler model I've seen that's come close to looking like something I'd wanna field. So what's the word on conversions and these guys?

[Megalodon]

The model you linked does have a cannon it's mounted on the belly of the beast!

 

There are a lot of tourney players out there who will miss the point of the conversion, you know the "rule of cool" and assume you are trying to gain an unfair advantage through your conversion. So if you are planning on taking your army with converted Defilers to a tourney expect these issues to crop up. You have been warned.

 

 

If you aren't planning participating in tournies I'd say go for it because most converted Defilers look Ace!

[Seahawk]

Follow the rule of cool and screw P&M'ers. Here's what I saw being used for defilers at Adepticon last year:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/veritas117/Adepticon%202008/100_3233.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/veritas117/Adepticon%202008/100_3270.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/veritas117/Adepticon%202008/100_3234.jpg

 

And if those can be used at such a premier tournament event, I think they can be acceptable elsewhere. Really it all boils down to the tournament organizer. If they say "Hey that's cool and acceptable" you're good to go. Opponents have no say because it's not their call to make. Send an email with a couple pictures of your conversion to the organizers and you should be good.

 

Everything you quoted is purely opinion, not written rule. Have at it!

[Megalodon]

What's a P&M'er?

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/veritas117/Adepticon%202008/100_3234.jpg

That is really groovy looking!

[Seahawk]

A "P&M'er." Someone who complains a lot about the minutiae where nobody else cares.

 

[edited since you now know and I don't know if I'll get a mackerel slap for leaving that written there]

[Megalodon]

Gotcha! B)

[TheDarkApostle]

Now you have intrigued my interest Seahawk. ;)

 

Speaking of the Defilers, in case you can just claim it to be a Brass Scorpion (GW did feature a converted Defiler-to-Scorpion in one of their official publicized books, I think it was the 4'th Ed' Rulebook.) which just oh so happens to count-as a Defiler. Since there is no official model for the Brass Scorpion the problem jeske mentioned is solved. :o

 

TDA

[CastratedCow]

Since the defiler doesn't come with a standard base on which to model it, and the base it would otherwise have, its legs, are movable, are there certain dimensions to which it would have to conform? And are their any situations in which the defiler I linked would not be appropriate (assuming it has the battle cannon [which I still can't find, heh])?

[Megalodon]

The only situations I can forsee is if your opponent complains and/or you are in a tournament. In the case of the latter follow Seahawks advice and contact the organizer. If he says it's OK you are golden.

 

Here is a shot of the cannon for you.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/EasyEight/40K/conversions/DSCF4370.jpg

[Seahawk]

No, the hobby is really up to you. My rules of thumb for conversions are making it look recognizable for what it is, fluffy & fair, and to be WYSIWYG. Beyond that, have at it.

[sword brethren]

I do agree, Fluffy things look cooler, just use the rules of thing that exist, i don't know anyone who wouldn't let me use my conversions, i will be using converted jet bikes i learned to make from a tutorial soon, I've encountered no problems, the fluffier the better, jet bike would fit into my fallen just like a brass scorpion fits into a khornate army or a quad bike conversion fits into white scars.

[Fire Harte]

No, the hobby is really up to you. My rules of thumb for conversions are making it look recognizable for what it is, fluffy & fair, and to be WYSIWYG. Beyond that, have at it.

 

QFT.

 

How I have always thought things out to. ;)

[the jeske]

first of all no one says you wont be able to use converted models , thats one thing [unless its a GW sponsored tournament and your using non GW parts a lot , but those are rather crapy high cost and weak prizes] . but when there are LoS checks and there will be , because there always are , you have to check it against a legal GW model [the rule is a bit flexible on models that werent produced by GW on most tournaments] , otherwise people would bring epic models and play with those [just chop an epic LR in to half or use some greenstuff and they would counts as conversions].

 

A "P&M'er." Someone who complains a lot about the minutiae where nobody else cares.

yeah m8 , go to a tournament with a 3k+ $ prize pool specially not in the US and check how many people dont care about model size/LoS and conversions. Aside for my gaming side , I was a judge and org of a few tournaments and besides illegal lists , the actuall models used were responsible for a lot of negative points or auto loses .

[Leonar the Nutter]

are there really 3k+ tournanents? that is crazy, there would be not fun involved, it would just be about getting the 3k, and after all its a game were the objective is to have fun

[CastratedCow]

Well, jeske, that still doesn't address the issue unique to the Defiler (and I guess Soul Grinder, too). The model has no definite base, and it can be modelled to various heights/widths without doing ANY conversions because of the movable legs. So how can you automatically claim that the original, unconverted model would be a better basis for LOS checks when the model itself has no standard with which to judge?

 

And again, where in the rulebook does it state that this is something with which you'd normally have to concern yourself? Contacting a tournament organizer ahead of time every time you want to field a converter model seems like an incredible pain in the ass. Where is it stated that this is necessary?

[Seahawk]

you have to check it against a legal GW model [the rule is a bit flexible on models that werent produced by GW on most tournaments]

 

a tournament with a $3000+ prize pool

 

Quote me the rule and I'll agree with you, but cover to cover there is no such rule in my book. I know it was part of the leaked 5th edition PDF rulebook, but was dropped from the real one, among other rules.

 

As for the tournament locale, you also have to remember CastratedCow's location and gaming attitude. I sincerely doubt he lives and plays in areas and tournaments where such high stakes are the norm. While it's nice to know about your situation and the differences around the world, I don't think it applies so readily to his defiler desire.