Red Corsairs Power Level

[minigun762]

I was reading up about the Red Corsairs and I'm finding two conflicting stories about their overall level of power/control/strength.

 

1) They have less than 200 of the original Red Corsairs left and an unknown amount of new recruits which gives them the image of being very weak

 

2) The other Legions seem to respect them (something they don't do with each other) to the point of considering them equals to the original Legions

 

So are the Red Corsairs a strong power to be feared as their terrorize the area around the Maelstrom, or just a small band of Marine Pirates who might harass a few ships but not do alot in the grand scheme?

[aleksandur]

so... it's not over 9000?

[TheDarkApostle]

so... it's not over 9000?

Of course not. And speaking of which anymore references to that will be removed.

 

I find it hard to swallow the second quote Minigun, any source on that one?

 

It is however possible that they have gained some sort of "respect" for their stalwart challenge towards the Imperium and the fact that they managed to get away with it, and afterward have managed to build themselves an own Imperium inside the Maelstrom.

 

The first however is true, only about 200 of the original Astral Claws managed to escape Badab. However after entering the Maelstrom they rapidly began drawing in all and every renegades they came across, as well as hiring bands of original Legionnaires (it can be discussed exactly which Legions they would be able to hire from but my guess is pretty much everyone but Word Bearers whom I see hardly would sell their services, unless of course it's something to cover for a special operation issued by Lorgar.)

 

TDA

[Magnus Thane]

I take it you're a Wordbearers player ;)

[minigun762]

I take it you're a Wordbearers player ;)

 

Haha no, he means that the Word Bearers, as a Legion, are actually pretty together. They are one of the few Legions that didn't split off into tons of little warbands. They have different Hosts but each one maintains contact with the home planets and ruling counsel of Dark Apostles.

 

TDA: This is all I could find for that second quote from Wh40k Lexicanum

The intent of the Red Corsairs' raids are to build Huron's army with captives who turn traitor. Lord Huron is feared and despised by the Imperium as well as honoured by the other traitor legions. Huron Blackheart's empire within the Maelstrom has become a great threat and a power that rivals his fellow legions within the Eye of Terror.

 

I take it with the typical grain of salt but that site seems like it does its homework. I suppose the quote could be read as they're simply the size/power of a Legion, while not having the respect of one.

Of course being as most of the Legions are gone, its hard to say what that means anymore.

[TheDarkApostle]

All I can say is that I doubt that Huron, with just 200 marines to start with, in just 50 years have managed to gain enough power to rival the Traitor Legions of old.

 

But that's just my opinion ^_^

 

And @ Magnus Thane;

 

How did you figure? :lol:

 

TDA

[Magnus Thane]

Yeah i know how the Wordbearers are organized. Comes forward rather explicitly in the Black Library novels. I was merely teasing poor TheDarkApostle. ^_^

 

As for the Corsairs... i wouldn't say they rival the Legions, far from. But among all the minor warbands/factions that are not affiliated to a Legion they probably rank high if not highest. Quite a few of the rogue Marines seem to go over to them.

But given the fluff from the codex and the lack of ships they have, i wouldn't say they are Legion-level in power. Far from actually.

 

So your first comment is likely. They are a terror in their region and very dangerous. But not overwhelmingly so. They probably gathered a lot of pirates under their wing and tend to gain a lot of rogues. The fluff does seem to indicate they're not to be underestimated.

[Commissar Molotov]

Whilst it's true that figures of 200 are usually quoted when talking about the surviving Astral Claws, Huron's managed to increase his numbers a fair bit. That he's managed to broker deals with the original Legions is seen in his attack on the Marines Errant Fortress-Monastery with the support of the Night Lords. To me, it works - he was able to persuade Chapters to his side in the Badab War, so it stands to reason that he can persuade the Legions to aid him. It speaks to his conviction and power as an orator.

 

(Alternatively, those of you that remember the second edition Codex: Chaos might recall that other theories were given for Huron's change - including being an alien shapeshifter. If so, you could argue he/it has used his/its powers to influence the Legions).

 

Either way, as Magnus says the Red Corsairs are nowhere near the power of a Legion - but they are far greater an annoyance than their size would suggest - to the point that now they've laid Chogoris (homeworld of the White Scars) under siege.

[minigun762]

Whilst it's true that figures of 200 are usually quoted when talking about the surviving Astral Claws, Huron's managed to increase his numbers a fair bit. That he's managed to broker deals with the original Legions is seen in his attack on the Marines Errant Fortress-Monastery with the support of the Night Lords. To me, it works - he was able to persuade Chapters to his side in the Badab War, so it stands to reason that he can persuade the Legions to aid him. It speaks to his conviction and power as an orator.

 

(Alternatively, those of you that remember the second edition Codex: Chaos might recall that other theories were given for Huron's change - including being an alien shapeshifter. If so, you could argue he/it has used his/its powers to influence the Legions).

 

Either way, as Magnus says the Red Corsairs are nowhere near the power of a Legion - but they are far greater an annoyance than their size would suggest - to the point that now they've laid Chogoris (homeworld of the White Scars) under siege.

 

 

Some excellent points that I had forgotten about. Sieging/harassing 2 Marine Chapter's homeworlds is not a minor task I'd say.

It sounds as if they'd be a medium threat to the Imperium. They're not going to raise up 50,000 Berserkers and go on a decade long rampage around the galaxy but they're also not limited to raiding minor worlds or supply conveys to get by. I would say if nothing else, Huron seems to have the makings of a leader who knows what it takes to survive.

[Magnus Thane]

If we looked at this from a historical evaluation point, the historian in me would call Huron a 'medium power'. While a Legion is a 'major' power. You won't take them out easily and they have the potential to really become great but only given the right opportunities.

It's what i like about them. If ever i had the funding and didn't want to add to my Black Legion or start a Kabal... i'd do Red Corsairs.

 

They look great to collect. Nice colorscheme, good fluff, nice hero and above all they have an intriguing position. They're not the biggest boys around but so much potential. Not to mention you can combine a lot of minis from varying lines. And they'd also make for some fun BFG scenarios you can interlock with them.

 

Might be cool to replay the Fenris thing -> first in Gothic than with mini's to re-enact the boarding.

[Brother Drakist]

Being able to pull off an assualt that results in stealing an entire Chapter's geneseed supply is going to command respect. Unless your a fan of Khorne you will also find the method in which he basically destroyed the chapter whose geneseed he stole nothing less than brilliant. Huron is becoming the hit and run commander of Chaos. Whether he's stealing ships, or geneseed. Seems as though he will be the future focus of non Legion fluff.

[mightygoose]

although, only 200 Astral claws survived, what about surviving lamenters... who mistakenly thought renegade guard were attacking their historical allies during the badab uprising. Im sure some of the lamenters would have permanently sided with the Claws even after the realisation of the mistake...

[TheDarkApostle]

although, only 200 Astral claws survived, what about surviving lamenters... who mistakenly thought renegade guard were attacking their historical allies during the badab uprising. Im sure some of the lamenters would have permanently sided with the Claws even after the realisation of the mistake...

Possible, but not likely.

 

And we surely won't see more of them joining the Claws if that's the case as it was noted that the entire Chapter (or what was left if it anyway :teehee ) set out on a crusade to redeem themselves and quite promptly ran right into a Tyranid Hive fleet and were never heard of again.

 

TDA

[minigun762]

If ever i had the funding and didn't want to add to my Black Legion or start a Kabal... i'd do Red Corsairs.

 

They look great to collect. Nice colorscheme, good fluff, nice hero and above all they have an intriguing position. They're not the biggest boys around but so much potential. Not to mention you can combine a lot of minis from varying lines.

 

I think it would be kinda fun to add a small (500 point ish) Red Corsairs addition to my Iron Warriors. Be easy to justify that they were hired to do some mission or assist in an assault. Could always just add one of their ships to the Iron Warriors fleet as an additional escort.

 

If Chaos had access to normal Drop Pods, I would say that a Red Corsair Drop Pod force would be very appropriate.

[Magnus Thane]

I greatly loved the Red Corsairs army showcased in WD. Some Nightlords, a bit of Space Wolves elements... it's superfluffy when following the story yet at the same time easy to pull off.

[Jiri the Corrupted]

Corsairs have great potential in fluff and modelling both. They are a new, powerfull force and have united what was a ragged bunch of misfits into a thorn in the Imperiums side. And don't forget, 200+ marines is a powerfull force. Especially if supported by normal human forces, something Huron seems to do with his pirate minions.

 

But what bothers me is the interaction he has with the old Legions. How would one coordinate a deal with the fractured Chaos Legions who have their base in the Eye? We know the WB have a base in the Maelstorm and there's bound to be a bunch of NL and AL running around but with the other legions I'm not so sure. And I seriously doubt they would respect Hurons band of upstarts. Seriously, they hate each other and the Legions have been brothers in arms for over 10,000 years!

 

Stealing that geneseed was a cunning move though. At one time mauling your foe and rebuilding your own strength by stealing future generations of SM from a Fortress Monastry? You need some serious balls to pull that off. Abaddon had to send the IW in to get his share of fresh geneseed.

Now that I mention it, the Imperium should be getting a hard time raising new chapters and fresh marines with all that geneseed stolen. Hell, half of the backup supply was nicked by the IW! I wonder if they traded some of that stuff to the other legions... Fabius Bile should have his work cut out for him!

[Castlerook]

I'm surprised no one has really mentioned other renegades joining the Corsairs. If you remember the 3.5 Chaos Codex (the previous one) in the painting section they mentioned that Space Marines who had left their respective chapters might join Huron and the Red Corsairs, showing their loyality by defacing the Imperial iconography on their armour, or just completely changing their armour colouring. Seems to me then that the Red Corsairs could potentially have more new recruits (granted, they'd probably come in ones or twos, very few renegades would be made up of full squads).

 

My €0.02

[Magnus Thane]

I fully agree with you there!

[TheDarkApostle]

I'm surprised no one has really mentioned other renegades joining the Corsairs. If you remember the 3.5 Chaos Codex (the previous one) in the painting section they mentioned that Space Marines who had left their respective chapters might join Huron and the Red Corsairs, showing their loyality by defacing the Imperial iconography on their armour, or just completely changing their armour colouring. Seems to me then that the Red Corsairs could potentially have more new recruits (granted, they'd probably come in ones or twos, very few renegades would be made up of full squads).

 

My €0.02

As you said yourself, only 1 or 2 from each Chapter would deflect, and hardly more then that in a mere span of 50 years. Still 1 or 2 from each Chapter, given that the Imperium is supposed to have 1000 Space Marine Chapters would only give something in between 1000 and 2000 Marines to have joined him. This would put they fighting strength somewhere in the 1,200 and 2,200 region. And even then if an extremely rough estimate of a very unlikely happening. Of course Bile could have created "new men" and new Marines for them but still would hardly be more then half a thousand of them IMHO. So that would put the Red Corsairs somewhere at 1,700 to 2,700 Astartes strong.

 

Not really many compared to what the Traitor Legions are supposed to have. Still I'll admit they can have earned some respect for their daring raid and actually managing to acquire all that Gene-seed. But it would hardly be any real respect as in they could scare the Legions into doing what they want.

 

TDA