Apothecary Daxam Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I've had something that's been bugging me for a while. Horus, Fulgrim, Angron and Mortarion had to orchestrate the Istvaan event to cleanse loyalists from their ranks. And failed pretty spectaculaly at first. But the other legions who became traitors, not including the Thousand Sons (since they weren't originally traitors), did they have to do any cleansing And were there any Marines in Loyalist chapters who felt more aligned to Horus? Just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Apothecary Daxam Posted Today, 07:26 AM I've had something that's been bugging me for a while. Horus, Fulgrim, Angron and Mortarion had to orchestrate the Istvaan event to cleanse loyalists from their ranks. And failed pretty spectaculaly at first. But the other legions who became traitors, not including the Thousand Sons (since they weren't originally traitors), did they have to do any cleansing Horus mentioned in one of the HH books that Perturabo does some cleaning house when he destroys his homeworld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raulmichile Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 The Word Bearers did it many years before the Heresy began. The Alphas didn't need to do it as I understand it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Daxam Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 Hmmm. Okay. I wonder if the Night Lords didn't have to? Were they all loyal to their Primarchs Cause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Part of the problem with the Nightlords was that all their recruits were criminal scum... That and I suspect they joined Horus out of Necessity rather than loyalty to him/chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giant Fossil Penguin Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I agree with Noserenda. I think that as long as Curze allowed the Night Lords to cause whatever terror and suffering they wanted, or gave them missions that played to what they wanted, then they would obey him and follow him wherever he lead. I think Curze was happy to join Horus because he wanted to prove the Emperor wrong in that he would kill his son, not save him, although Chaos was a means to an end in this respect; I don't think Curze cared about the Chaos gods, or even intended to worship them. If the HH had started and Curze had wanted to stay loyal, I imagine that the Legion would have tried to house-clear him, as Horus and his objectives allowed for greater freedom for the psychopathic Night Lords. My 0.34c anyway. GFP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Daxam Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 That's an interesting view. What about Loyalist Legions then? Did any of the brothers become traitors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju'kosian Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Apart from the Dark angels, I can't really think off other stories or so that happened with loyalist legions.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Dark Angels are the logical Traitor Loyalists. None of the others that I can think of, though both the Wolves and Raven Guard went to pretty desperate lengths in defence of the Emperor... Thousand Sons had no need of House clearing after the Sacking of Prospero, Night Lords were as mentioned scum beforehand, Alpha Legion remain fairly ambiguous and the Iron Warriors were fairly bitter to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEFF4i Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Dark Angels are the logical Traitor Loyalists. None of the others that I can think of, though both the Wolves and Raven Guard went to pretty desperate lengths in defence of the Emperor... Thousand Sons had no need of House clearing after the Sacking of Prospero, Night Lords were as mentioned scum beforehand, Alpha Legion remain fairly ambiguous and the Iron Warriors were fairly bitter to begin with. I agree on the TS, but Night Lords according to current fluff might have been a little crazy, but not necessarily traitors. We Wolves are a touch crazy as well. Alpha Legion, well, we're unsure of their intentions (suprise suprise), and the Iron Warriors to knowledge were so ashamed, they fled from the light lest be fully exposed to it. We'll learn more as the books progress I'm sure, but almost all of the traitors could've gone either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor The Great Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I think it all depended on the Primarchs loyalty,as most troops followed their primarch.I think thats why during the purgeing of the legions there were so many tratiors(just my opinion).Just look at the Iron Hands,if Ferrus Manus had turned traitor then i suspect that most of the X Legion would have followed him(save for a few die-hard loyalists).Any way thats my view,anyone got any other views? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razrhaghul Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 i think part of it is what kind of history each of the legions, in origin, style and homeworlds cultures. all legionnaires at some point were loyal to the Emperor, but to what extremes and conditions they fought in, what worlds they hailed from, and the relation of their Primarchs with the Emperor and siblings kind of determined the events. some Primarchs loved their brothers more so than their father, and the campaigns they waged also had greater impact on whether they'd turn. for the most part i think elements of each legion fought by themselves or with each other, and only on certain occasions did they fight alongside other legions warriors. so while there would have been greater disposition for rebellion in some legions, such as the now traitor forces, it wouldn't necessarily be in all of them...UM, SW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashur Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Didnt Horus suggest at one point that Jagathai Khan will eventually join him? I dont remember in wich HH book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakiwis Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I am not sure about the Khan but I think I encountered that too but I dont recall where. Or I just heard it from someone. Though Horus could also be wrong since he also assumed Sanguinus would join him with them being great friends. I think when the traitor legions started purging their ranks, most of them were marines like Garro, Qruze and Loken, who doesnt really have the same affinity with the other marines. This meaning Garro being Terran born and Garviel and Qruze not being a "Son of Horus". So with the other loyal legions who some might be Terran born will be really loyal to the emperor, while the rest of that legion who are recruited from their primarch's homeworld would be loyal to the primarch who is loyal to the emperor. I think if there were any traitors within the loyalist legions, it would just be a really really small number or non even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child-of-the-Emperor Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Theres no real accounts of Loyalist legions putting down renegades in their own legions, apart from the Dark Angels (although some fluff suggests that Luther was actually fighting in favour of the Emperor believing that the Lion had betrayed the Emperor, see here) - In most cases i doubt it happened, Marines tended to follow their Primarch, with some obvious exceptions but still :D Thousand Sons would'nt have needed to get rid of any loyalists, as they were forced to join the heresy following the battle for Prospero. It was more of a problem for the Traitor legions rather than the loyalist legions for obvious reasons, as they were the ones doing the betraying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Daxam Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Okay then, haven't looked at this thread in a while. Did any Loyalists escape the Traitor Legions, like Garro and his hundred Death Guard? Where did they go, if so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I agree with what has been said here already The Space Marines had 2 loyalties generally, Primarch and Emperor. If a Primarch went against the Emperor it opened up a moral choice, where as if the Primarch sided with the Emperor there was no dilema. So I would say no with a few exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakiwis Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 From the fluff about the Red Corsairs is says some loyalist marines turned against their brothers and went with Huron. THough that is alot later than the HH. I think if the Primarch is for the emperor and the Imperium, it does not make any conflict for them and they will not turn against the Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju'kosian Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Okay then, haven't looked at this thread in a while. Did any Loyalists escape the Traitor Legions, like Garro and his hundred Death Guard? Where did they go, if so? Garro and his loyal marines fled with the Eisenstein and are on the moon awaiting their fate.. about The loyals who were at Istvaan before the Virusbombing their fate is unknown.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randian Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 About the loyals who were at Istvaan before the Virusbombing their fate is unknown.. I think the question refers to the loyalists who were not at Istvaan, like those portrayed in Battle for the Abyss. The same answer applies, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logain the Ranger Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 About the loyals who were at Istvaan before the Virusbombing their fate is unknown.. I think the question refers to the loyalists who were not at Istvaan, like those portrayed in Battle for the Abyss. The same answer applies, however. It is quite possible that they do not know that their legion has betrayed. Maybe not Skraal, but probably most of his crew would have turned had they known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dietrich Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 The Word Bearers were pretty deep in Chaos worship by the time of the Heresy. The Night Lords had already rebelled against the Emperor. Curze was supposed to be brought back to Terra to answer for his crimes, but then Horus rebelled. I think Curze sided with Horus due more to 'enemy of my enemy' than due to falling to the lure of Chaos. All the Legions were started on Terra and were originally filled with only Terrans. Since the Legions were on campaign for several hundred years, there were very few Terrans left in their ranks by the time of the Heresy. I would expect that some Legions, like the World Eaters, that were focused more on assault and took heavy casualties, presumably had fewer surviving Terrans. I would guess that the Word Bearers arranged for 'accidents' to happen to anyone that opposed them. Also, they had much longer to convince the Legion to follow Lorgar. As seen in the Horus trilogy, there was a lot of peer pressure to join the lodges - and that was likely going on for years with the WB. The Night Lords did not originally have criminals in their ranks. Originally, they were Terrans. The early recruits from Nocturne weren't noted to be criminals either. But, with Cruze gone, the gangs once again seized power, and the later recruits were criminals. I think Cruze knew this and did nothing to stop it. How do you not notice that all the new recruits are problems? And they most likely had gang tattoos, etc. Cruze was gifted with premonition, but I think that also drove him mad. I would guess that some men had 'accidents', particularly the remaining Terrans - marines who may have campaigned with the Emperor before Cruze was even found (as did Garro). Cruze also taught the use of Terror as a weapon, and that may have had a psychological effect on some of the men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templar97 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 On a side note regarding the Night Lords Curze wanted nothing to do with Chaos IIRC as stated in the book Lord of the Night (excellent book btw). The Night Lords did not turn to Chaos untill after Curze was killed and Zho Shaal was trapped by the Eldar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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