minigun762 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 What are the standard upgrades for the 'Thirster. Honestly they don't need much to slaughter things but I see 2 things that really stand out. 1) Blessing, lets face it for a tiny point cost you gain an awesome 2+ save. Why not? 2) Unholy Might, its expensive but it puts you at S8, which means you're insta-popping T4 models like SM Captains. It also helps with tank busting. (or jumping on a Hierophant) And nothing else right? Instrument? Don't see why you'd ever be tying with a 'Thirster and Death Strike is just too expensive for a 1 shot BS4 attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Believe me, instrument has its uses - went up against some harlies, they each caused one wound on each other, which allowed them to be supported by the avatar and a wraithlord the next turn EDIT: How do you feel about daemon lords? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor1313 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Pretty much with you, Minigun. S8 base for the auto-kill T4 characters, and it means you generally wound any MC on a 2+ as well, since they tend to be T6 as a rule. Some carnifexes get up to T7 with the defensive upgrade (...usually a pair of them, for hte heavy support slots), and even then S8 helps. Also means you pretty much auto-pen vehicles on the charge, and the S9 + 2d6 should really, REALLY be good for cracking open the Land Raiders you meet. For the 'liths, I'd just eat his troops wholesale. Pretty much anything you can get into assault with Necrons (outside of Nurgle troops) should beat him, route him, and sweep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
==Me== Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Same here, S8 and Blessing are both extremely useful. Nothing else really stands out. Death Strike is dumb, Fury is pointless and Instrument is points filler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Instrument is points filler. A very useful points filler. Am I the only one here who draws at least 3 combats a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crovan Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 There are enough C:SM, Orks using Zogwart, and Eldar at the FLGS to always warrant the Blessing of the Blood God for me, I reckon. Can you imagine the BT getting squigged by Zogwart? How embarassing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 A BT can't - only independant characters get affected by Zogwort's power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 As said, blessing and might, as far as I'm concerned the base cost of a thirster is 275 not 250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crovan Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 A BT can't - only independant characters get affected by Zogwort's power. Oh, duh. You're right. Guess that's what I get for never fielding him with my Orks :lol:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Oh, duh. You're right. Guess that's what I get for never fielding him with my Orks :). The technicalities of it are annoying, though - Lysander can get turned into a squig but the masque can't. Sorry, not trying to derail the thread, but the awesome thing about pavane is that it can move titans. Oh, and Gargantuan Creatures can be turned into spawn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor1313 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 If you're tying often with the 'thirster, something's up... If he's NOT killing anything, I'm not sure what you're fighting. Either that, or the thing's dying slowly anyway. The instrument is what, 5pts? I'd call it 'filler' if you end up having the spare points, and if not...ah well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 As said, blessing and might, as far as I'm concerned the base cost of a thirster is 275 not 250. Yup, though you could get away without Unholy Might in a 1k game or so (or if you're running 2 'Thirsters). Its very useful but 1.33 CSMs worth of points is a significant amount. Related to this, I was reading the description of the Bloodthirster more closely and it talks about no other Greater Daemon being able to compete with it, does the math-hammering of their respective stats confirm this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Not sure on the mathhammer, but they are pretty good, I think the keeper comes pretty close though. Might is usually essential though, even in low games (where you shouldn't really be using a 'thirster), instagibbing most characters is pretty important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Related to this, I was reading the description of the Bloodthirster more closely and it talks about no other Greater Daemon being able to compete with it, does the math-hammering of their respective stats confirm this? Me and my friend were wondering the same thing last year, so I math-hammered GUOvsBT, KoSvsBT, LoCvsBT, and EVERY time, the Blood Thirster won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Related to this, I was reading the description of the Bloodthirster more closely and it talks about no other Greater Daemon being able to compete with it, does the math-hammering of their respective stats confirm this? Me and my friend were wondering the same thing last year, so I math-hammered GUOvsBT, KoSvsBT, LoCvsBT, and EVERY time, the Blood Thirster won. Impressive, but also as it should be. Lord of Change should only be able to take it down at range and kiting it around. Keeper of Secrets could kill it if it was already wounded I'm sure, going first is a big bonus with so many attacks. I'm not sure how the Great Unclean One could win really, speaking of which he doesn't get his FnP save against the "Thirster right because of it being a MC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Anyone else think that's hugely awesome? Y'know, since daemons don't have psychic powers, they can affect super heavies and gargantuan creatures - a Tyranid HIEROPHANT can get turned into a spawn! 1250 points killed by a 30 point power :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor1313 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Keepers are competitive with Thirsters because of their attacks. Honestly, I find that I like Keepers of Secrets for their cost. A little slower (fleet vs. wings) and a little less durable, but for base 70 points less (as the Thirster is 270 for +1S and Blessing of the Blood God) I can live with that. Great Unclean Ones excel in closing in, what with FNP and all that. Lords of Change...honestly, I feel they're a bit inefficient, as they can't really melee for crap (3 attacks is NOT melee-oriented) and get all of two ranged attacks. Keepers...competitive, all the way. And they can get Pavane and Hit 'n' Run, so they can pull people out of position, assault them, and help out the army as well in that fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 LoC are better than you think - they can destroy a tank, mulch marines and turn something into a spawn in 1 turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor1313 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 LoC are better than you think - they can destroy a tank, mulch marines and turn something into a spawn in 1 turn At what cost, though? 250 base. If I want to take out a tank, I get one S8, AP1 shot at BS5. If I want to shoot marines, I've got Daemonic Gaze. If I want to flame marines, I'm 280 points, and getting into assault range. If I want to be able to turn someone into a Spawn (after they fail a toughness test, which if it's the average T4? Happens 1/3 the time) I'm 310. If I want to multi-task and do all this in a turn, I've bought We Are Legion and Master of Sorcery, for another 50 points. It's a 360pt Lord of Change (or 330 if you're not taking the Breath of Chaos) to do all that in a turn, man. I might as well get Fateweaver for that price and at least buff the area around me. I don't deny that the Lord of Change can do a lot of stuff, but he's bloody EXPENSIVE for what he does. To relate it to the original topic, the Bloodthirster can do all that as well (minus the spawn bit, but....I'm not sure I miss that). Will pretty much kill whatever you point it at in melee, will pretty much auto-penetrate tanks (Hmm. S9 + 2d6 = pain). The only thing Mr. Thirster won't do is shoot, and he'll struggle against tanks moving 12" or better since he hits them only on 6+, but he's flat-out more killy. Plus, at S8, he at least can make sure Nobs drop when he touches them. S8 base is just great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Don't forget minigun, the bloodthirster actually can shoot, not well, but he can. Of course it's expensive and rarely if ever worth it, but it's an option to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor1313 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 True, Captain Malachi...the Thirster can theoretically shoot. The only time I'd consider his faux plasma pistol would be in pure-Khorne, for dealing with vehicles moving 12" or more. Even then, it's not that potent...wants a 6 to pen AV12? Pens a Rhino 1/3 of the time? Not the best odds, for just one shot. Might knock a wound off a monstrous creature, but beyond that...I'd not really consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Me neither, simply pointing it out :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Keepers are competitive with Thirsters because of their attacks. Honestly, I find that I like Keepers of Secrets for their cost. A little slower (fleet vs. wings) and a little less durable, but for base 70 points less (as the Thirster is 270 for +1S and Blessing of the Blood God) I can live with that. I think Keepers are a steal for the most part. Not as good as Bloodthirsters but similar enough and alot cheaper. Ugly as sin though, they make the Great Unclean One look adorable. LoC are better than you think - they can destroy a tank, mulch marines and turn something into a spawn in 1 turn I wonder to myself what a Lord of Change can do better than 2 Chariot Heralds with Bolt, Master and Legion. They're 2 targets that are also fast moving and cheaper. Don't forget minigun, the bloodthirster actually can shoot, not well, but he can. Of course it's expensive and rarely if ever worth it, but it's an option to think about. Thats true, though I'm thinking that would only be used as a point filler in higher games, but it is an option. Most helpful I think for hunting fast moving light vehicles as you can penetrate most of them with S7. With the GUO, I wonder why so many people take Breath with him, how many times do you really think you're going to fire it with a S&P walking model? I'd probably just keep him cheap with Cloud of Flies for the defensive grenades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbaron997 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I always try to put Unholy Might on my thirster and here is why. On the charge I have 6 str 9 attacks, considering if im attacking a vehicles Str 9 is great, though not really needed. They key reason is here: If I am charging a squad with a MEQ character in it, I wanna use the turn I have more attacks with to kill the marines around him, as I dont need 6 to kill the character. My second turn I attack the character, and since I have str 8, I insta kill him. This is espically true vs a unit with a fearless generating character, as you dont want them to run away the first turn. So you charge in, kill abuot 4 marines, they do nothing to 1 or 2 wounds. They lost combat and are fearless and must take saves. 2nd turn you kill the character and they probably run. Blessing is a points filler to me, i can leave it just as soon as I take it. Deathstrike is overcoasted adn underperforming. In myopinion its point was to pop a transport so your MC could charge the troops inside, but do to this it should have been assault 2, or str 8 assault 1. As it is its just not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
==Me== Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 The Kipper has I10, more atttacks, grenades, musk, and pavane. He isn't as straight up killy as a BT, but with pavane and musk it can run around and hit just about anything and will always go first with a ton of S6 attacks. The GUO has breath and since he's a MC he rolls 3D6 for S&P, so it isn't all that crippling. Breath is there for a good first turn drop or in case he gets bogged down. The big booger is there to go after other MCs and characters with noxious touch, in addition to soaking up stupid amounts of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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