Roultox Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Dont know how to start this one out. ;) There is a problem with balance in the Chaos Codex in comparison to other armies. Let me explain. New Space Marine codex: Lacks proper assault as troops, lacks durable firepower in elites, lacks mobile firepower in heavy support and troops, to score you must put ranged marines near objective(s). Blood Angels codex: Points drawback for efficient ranged armies, lacks support units if ranged for their melee-death company, apart from melee in troops they lack the same as the new marine codex roughly. Dark Angels codex: About the same as the other two codexes with a little given and taken, cutting numbers greatly for death/raven troops. New Imperial Guard codex: (Not rumor, dont ask me for the rules) Packs plenty of firepower at the lack of melee apart from hording into combat making fire inefficient for a turn or two, plenty of vehicles and goodies but troops are cookie-cutter gun and run. Eldar codex: Various troops to meddle with, most notibly Bikes/Wraithguard as troops, a durable force or specialist force, lacking signifigant power in any field met with superior force making hit and run tactics primary. Ork codex: Very powerful in numbers, however lacking initiative maes a big difference when charging a unit with initiative 4 and 3 attacks each or counter-charge, while shooting is respetible it mainly leads to melee combat as the units are too large and cumbersome to make effective for more then 2 turns including run. Now here is the problem, assessment of chaos next. Chaos codex: Packs a troop unit for any occasion and all excel at taking ground and maintaining an advance, only one unit has 1 attack per model thats required to take a champion with a force weapon to counterbalance, maintains great mobile firepower in all orginisation slots and can pack as many troop units(lesser daemons) as required with balanced vehicles and tactical vehciles, including a battle cannon and demolisher cannon among them, cheaper land raider and basic marines arguably superior options and basic equipment. I didn't see this until 5th edition rolled around, and then it hit me after a few dozen games that chaos; given the new metagame level games workshop is setting for new armies that chaos is still superior for unit choices. Most people will argue oer one or two units here, but I'm asking all of you to look at the codex as a whole, not to compare Rangers (we get kroot snipers in heavy support, dont forget kroot mercenaries even for numbers as troops) or compare units like assault marines that are cheaper then raptors, (because of icons+daemon support+superior HQ melee) its all a combination effect. When you combine most units in chaos, they all have a natural comulative effect where it magnifies the more pressure you put on one spot. While most codexes require more thought in that type of metagame, the chaos codex does it naturally. Ask yourself what combined effect does say, a unit of sniper scouts have with bolter marines, or sisters of battle troops when they are close to being charged? With chaos, most things can get close and stay close to help, even obliterators. Naturally, havocs and stay still and shoot stuff can be put in the fire support only category, but what devistators do you know be capable of fighting off a equal sized unit of assault marines attack for attack? (Assuming cover= the same quality of +1 for charging bonus). Chaos has it all, and not specialised like a Leman Russ for a battle cannon, no our battle cannon doesnt get hit automaticly when it stands still when charged with meltabombs, it hits back... It also likes to peek over our tanks and transports enough to get a shot on your things, and it can also pack the dreadnought's role being the only walker known with the fleet rule! Sure other armies can specialise for a type of role or a few roles, but they cant multi-task as many roles as a mixed chaos force, even when specialised chaos can still pack more roles then another army specialised for the same main role. Any thoughts? Discussion topic. :mellow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Thane Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Never really looked at it like that. I never jumped on the codexhate bandwagon. I enjoy the Codex. It's solid, dependable and allows for fluffy armies. And the lists are compared with previously rather balanced (non overpowered). I'm satisfied with it. As for ranking it to other codices. I don't know others that well but from discussions i'd deduce they're probably among the better ones out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuGGzy Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Well this is the first post I have seen so far saying that the new codex makes CSM overpowered. ;-P I personally was very unhappy seeing all the fluffy stuff go away. I mean, a Khorne unit and a Tzeench unit fighting side by side?!?!? IMPOSSIBLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracoDarco Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 well i started on the current codex and so far i see no problems, i have a pretty event number of wins/losses so it doesnt seem so bad to me, besides if chaos is getting the boost i really dont care :cuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djkest Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I think Chaos Land Raiders are overpriced for what you get. Space marines get free machine spirit, which is hellaciously good, and can add pintle mounted multi-meltas.... Oh yeah and Razorbacks are underpriced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roultox Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 Requirements for Razorbacks: marines arguably lesser then chaos units for the same role. Chaos Land Raider: 3 terminators per elite raider (PotMS vs Possession in a melee hard army, + dirge caster!), havoc launcher for ranged punishment to stay away from 24" ranged anti tank weapons. (orks, eldar, marines, even tau core armies with balanced forces, not pure range forces) Fluff is a big hit, not that most armies arent viable and restrictions were lifted because it would make certain players buy more. But as the game standpoint, the new level the game is at the chaos codex does pack more for the punch then other codexes in this version. Please share more on what you disagree upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Requirements for Razorbacks: marines arguably lesser then chaos units for the same role. Chaos Land Raider: 3 terminators per elite raider (PotMS vs Possession in a melee hard army, + dirge caster!), havoc launcher for ranged punishment to stay away from 24" ranged anti tank weapons. (orks, eldar, marines, even tau core armies with balanced forces, not pure range forces) Fluff is a big hit, not that most armies arent viable and restrictions were lifted because it would make certain players buy more. But as the game standpoint, the new level the game is at the chaos codex does pack more for the punch then other codexes in this version. Please share more on what you disagree upon. I think its a trade off, as most things are. Land Raiders = they have better ones and we have a cheaper one. Lets face it a naked Land Raider at 220 points isn't a horrible buy. The big drag here is that Chaos doesn't get 12 spots in their Land Raider. 1 extra spot means you could take 10 man CSM squads and a HQ unit. Thats my only beef. Razorback is awesome, but for 10 points more Chaos gets an equivalent in the Havoc Launcher Rhino. I can't say which one is better, both are basically mixed transports/gunships. We can carry more troops, theirs is cheaper. For me personally, the big bonus that Chaos gets is in our Troops. We have 5 choices (6 if you count Lesser Daemons) and all of them are viable. Loyalists have 3, 4 if you count Sternguard. Every Chaos army I ever make exploits the wonder that is Uber/Ultra Grit (Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword). We're not underpowered, just different. Our fluff getting murdered though... well thats a different story. Atleast we all don't want to be Ultramarines. :cuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Well yes, the Chaos codex is very strong, just very boring. I thought this was an old issue that everybody new about *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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