jeffersonian000 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Here's the situation: Defiler wants to fire its standard battlecannon over a unit of GKT, targeting a unit of Marines behind them. 1) Roll for Shrouding, if the GK are in view, so are the Marines behind them; if no view, no target/can't fire. 2) Roll for Shrouding, if the GK are in view, so are the Marines behind them; if no view, double the scatter dice. 3) Ignore Shrouding, the Marines get a 4+ cover save from the GKT's. 4) No go; Defiler battlecannon is not a barrage weapon without an upgrade and therefore cannot indirect fire the targeted unit regardless of Shrouding. In a recent tournament, if was arbitrated as option #1; however, the other three options seem legitimate based on the fact that the rules for Shrouding only involve GK's being the target. Any thoughts? SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159700-shrouding/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maligoare Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 I would have to go for 3 and 4, but I can't check the exact wording of the Shrouding at the moment. #4 because it doesn't have the option of firing indirectly, but it can still shoot directly at something it can see. #3 because as you say the Shrouding is something you deal with when shooting at grey knights, not through them! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159700-shrouding/#findComment-1873441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 3) Ignore Shrouding, the Marines get a 4+ cover save from the GKT's. Correct. Shrouding only protects the unit of GK if they are being directly targetted. As battlecannon's require direct LoS any intervening units confer the save. Cheers I Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159700-shrouding/#findComment-1873896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Not really sure where the confusion comes from here, the rules for shrouding say pretty clearly "a unit firing at a unit of grey knights must check if it can see them", so are you firing at the grey knights? No, so you ignore the shrouding rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159700-shrouding/#findComment-1873951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelmage99 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 I think you have missed the point, Malachi. Does the unit behind the Grey Knights get a cover save? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159700-shrouding/#findComment-1873954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Of course it does, why wouldn't it? I didn't miss the point, I pointed out that shrouding has absolutely no effect in this case. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159700-shrouding/#findComment-1873961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 The point that came up was: if you cannot see the Knights how can you see what is behind the Knights. Or to put it another way, does Shrouding block LOS when the distance roll isn't high enough? SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159700-shrouding/#findComment-1874159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praeger Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Simply put - wheres a rule that says the GK DONT give a cover save? The rule is about when shooting AT the unit - at all other times that rule is not in effect and so does not count. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159700-shrouding/#findComment-1874176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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