Brother Tholath Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 I've just been looking at the 13th Company Codex and noticed that the Grey Slayers are exactly the same as Grey hunter but for one thing, their attacks. The Grey Slayers get 2A while the Grey Hunters get 1A, yet their the same points (when you give the GH bolters, and grenades). I willing to say i'm slightly comfused that GW did this. Can anyone say why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearboy Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 No vehicles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnarRedsun Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 from my understanding its because they have no vehicles, you have to pay the points cost (no option for cheaper grey hunters) you are really limited in your hq (well not really limited, no ven dread, and no wgbl) always have to take a wolf priest, and its not a very diverse army. now the real question is did gw even think about them when they wrote the outflank rules for 5th or was that jsut one of those moments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 From the fluff point, come on man they have been fighting for a millenia so thats the least you would expect from the sons of Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Yeah its not so odd really. The difference is that grey slayers will always be that expensive, grey hunters only can be. Flexability costs points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Also note they don't have the same weapon options, (like the ability to have plasma pistols, power fists, power weapons, etc.) like the grey hunters do, so you NEED to spend those 60-80 points on a kitted out pack leader to make the unit flexible in combat... but oh that mark of wulfen is nasty. Also as others said it's no vehicles, a major disadvantage in 5th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Its kinda like necron warriors... for a point more than a normal marine they get to stand back up about half the time theyre killed. Or look at the monolith compared to the landraider. Pts dont always= pts. You have to take the entry in context with the rest of the army. Sure, its a deal to pay a point for a 50% return rate, but if all you take is warriors best of luck taking out tank heavy armies, etc, etc. On the other hand dark eldar would probly pay 300+pts for a raider that gets armor 14. 13nth co is the same way. You get a small deal on a less flexable unit to balance out some of the strengths of the list with the inherent weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sköll Khan Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 No vehicles? the lack of vehicles is partly covered by the "the gate" psychic power... ...though you're limited to 1 rune priest so only have access to the power once per turn... you could use this to deep strike your slower moving forces, avoiding them getting shot to pieces on the way over, or throw your Storm Claws at any heavy units, tying them up in combat, while your Grey Slayers slog across the table. or forget about Grey slayers, throw a Mark of the Wulfen on your lord, and get the faster moving Wulfen as a troop choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 the lack of vehicles is partly covered by the "the gate" psychic power......though you're limited to 1 rune priest so only have access to the power once per turn... you could use this to deep strike your slower moving forces, avoiding them getting shot to pieces on the way over, or throw your Storm Claws at any heavy units, tying them up in combat, while your Grey Slayers slog across the table. See this is why I field 45 fenrisian wolves... people seem to forget the amazing abilities of these cheap walls of cover, and watch out if they do get into combat, because they're better than the average marine (obviously minus the armour save) for a lot less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sköll Khan Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 See this is why I field 45 fenrisian wolves... people seem to forget the amazing abilities of these cheap walls of cover, and watch out if they do get into combat, because they're better than the average marine (obviously minus the armour save) for a lot less. ======================================================== My Oringinal post: but 45 wolves will cost the same as 20 Grey Slayers. wolves will give you twice the amount of attacks as 20 wulfen but 20 wulfen can field 3 power fists per squad and have some real armour. ========================================================= Take my ale horn, spank me thrice and hand me to Guilliman: I was indeed reading the Storm Claws options when talking about Wulfen Who put a picture of a Wulfen next to the Storm Claws options in Codex: ET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 See this is why I field 45 fenrisian wolves... people seem to forget the amazing abilities of these cheap walls of cover, and watch out if they do get into combat, because they're better than the average marine (obviously minus the armour save) for a lot less. but 45 wolves will cost the same as 20 Grey Slayers. wolves will give you twice the amount of attacks as 20 wulfen but 20 wulfen can field 3 power fists per squad and have some real armour. You're mixing things up here, first of all you can get 21 Grey Slayers for the same cost as 45 wolves, but this includes no special weapons of any sort or anything, then you go on to say wulfen, then say wulfen can field 3 power fists which they can't, so let's clear things up because I KNOW what you were thinking you just mixed things up. ;) First of all, for 450 points you get 45 fenrisian wolves, they are amazing, first turn assault is a common thing with them, and outflanking can be deadly, sure 3+ armour is nice, but when you're constantly in combats (don't forget multiple assaults) they won't get shot at and will kill a LOT. When you kit out GREY SLAYERS, you're lucky to get 16 models for the cost of 45, and lets face it, with the amount of AV out there, a lot of players are fielding a lot more higher AP weaponry (meltas are common things now) so that 3+ armour doesn't mean anything, especially when the wolves will almost have constant 4+ cover. Also the ONLY unit that can have power fists in their regular models is the storm claws, if you want a good base for slayers then get a pack leader with MotW and give him a pelt and powerfist... this guy's a beast, I killed 5 nob bikers on the counter 2nd turn, great stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellblades Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Well, I think that 13th Co is gonna be seeing some big changes with the new codex, especially due to how amazing we are currently are with everything outflanking, but for right now, I'm perfectly content just destroying my friends IG with them. For Russ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Well, I think that 13th Co is gonna be seeing some big changes with the new codex, especially due to how amazing we are currently are with everything outflanking, but for right now, I'm perfectly content just destroying my friends IG with them. For Russ! Sadly it's really a tough time for IG to beat 13th company unless they're going full mech (my buddy fields a bunch of chimeras, russes, hellhounds) so you can't get to the juicy troops, otherwise you just multiple assault on the outflank his whole line and it's game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellblades Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Sadly it's really a tough time for IG to beat 13th company unless they're going full mech (my buddy fields a bunch of chimeras, russes, hellhounds) so you can't get to the juicy troops, otherwise you just multiple assault on the outflank his whole line and it's game. Exactly. I played a friendly game against Infantry heavy IG 2 days ago, just some urban terrain and whatnot, becuase we were just playing for fun, he had about 300 more points than me, but with out flanking, i had all troops in CC by turn 2, and he had very few chances to shoot me because I just moved from combat to combat. In the end, i annihilated his army without losing a single squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sköll Khan Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 You're mixing things up here, first of all you can get 21 Grey Slayers for the same cost as 45 wolves, but this includes no special weapons of any sort or anything, then you go on to say wulfen, then say wulfen can field 3 power fists which they can't, so let's clear things up because I KNOW what you were thinking you just mixed things up. :rolleyes: First of all, for 450 points you get 45 fenrisian wolves, they are amazing, first turn assault is a common thing with them, and outflanking can be deadly, sure 3+ armour is nice, but when you're constantly in combats (don't forget multiple assaults) they won't get shot at and will kill a LOT. When you kit out GREY SLAYERS, you're lucky to get 16 models for the cost of 45, and lets face it, with the amount of AV out there, a lot of players are fielding a lot more higher AP weaponry (meltas are common things now) so that 3+ armour doesn't mean anything, especially when the wolves will almost have constant 4+ cover. Also the ONLY unit that can have power fists in their regular models is the storm claws, if you want a good base for slayers then get a pack leader with MotW and give him a pelt and powerfist... this guy's a beast, I killed 5 nob bikers on the counter 2nd turn, great stuff. Indeed I was confused and unclear... I stand chastised, with rear as blue as Guilliman's. 21 Grey Slayers with add-ons will set you back the same as 45 wolves, but as you said the Wolves are more than bolter fodder, and at that number could be very deadly... they are probably a better option. and after add-ons a storm claws pack isn't going to come as cheap as wolves. and yes the only way to get PF in a Wulfen pack is to attach it to the Wolf Priest. Time to think about a wolf pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sköll Khan Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Well, I think that 13th Co is gonna be seeing some big changes with the new codex, especially due to how amazing we are currently are with everything outflanking, but for right now, I'm perfectly content just destroying my friends IG with them. For Russ! I doubt we'll see the 13th in the new codex 13th can't take allies, even Space Wolves, so they're a whole separate army. and as Chaos players don't even have proper rules for cult armies in 5th, I doubt GW will be kind enough to give the Wolves 2 Codexs in one, we'll be lucky to get 1 codex in 1... [[that was an "Grumpy Wolf challenge" which has the same effect as "disdainful comment" see Codex Space Marines for full rules]] :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I wouldn't mind if I can field 13th company without allies... I just want to be able to field them again! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Why can't they fielded now under the same caveats as normal SW, ie in line with the FAQs and Codex SM changes? The points still work that way so any reasonable opponent should be okay with it :D Mind you this is from someone who is busy building a 1500 pt 13th Coy force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Its because the other armies in C:EOT were variant codices off of armies that have updates since then. They were wrecked to shreds. 13nth co was just a victim of them pruning of these other old codices who now had corebooks who werent 100% compatable anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Its because the other armies in C:EOT were variant codices off of armies that have updates since then. They were wrecked to shreds. 13nth co was just a victim of them pruning of these other old codices who now had corebooks who werent 100% compatable anymore. Umm but doesn't a codex remain in play until superseded by a newer version. Whilst this has happened with the other armies in C:EOT, 13th Company has not been retouched. Is there a link to a GW site that states somewhere that the 13th Coy list is not compatible with 5th edition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 They just plain threw out C:EOT, saying that it was for the summer campaign that year anyways. Ill look for that link, though I have a sad feeling wolf89 already has it on file, complete with dartboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Sadly there is no "direct" file or anything that simply says "nope you can't field them anymore", they just stopped entirely supporting them, so when you go to a tournament there is 1 thing you will see, armies that are allowed, there you will find 99.9999999999% of the time 13th company will not be there, the only places I've heard of others using them is a LGS that allowed them simply because they didn't know any better. In the past GW did a clear cut what armies are allowed sort of ordeal but they've neglected to do so this year, if you go to an RTT and above 13th company ISN'T allowed, this info you will find upon sign-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Hey no worries - I'm not big into the tournament scene and without a concrete no then the guys at the club wont have an issue with a 13th Company army. Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 13th Co is also nice when you play Dawn of War setup. Watch youre opponents face when you can deploy everything of youre army (if you wanted to). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Hey no worries - I'm not big into the tournament scene and without a concrete no then the guys at the club wont have an issue with a 13th Company army. Thanks, If THEY don't have an issue with it, they always reserve the right to say "No", so be sure to get their input first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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