maturin Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 We've all seen a lot of talk about ironclads drop podding into enemy lines and firing off their hunter-killers at the rear of enemy tanks. I'm converting up my own, but looking over the drop pod rules I've realized that they don't protect you from scattering off the table. My question to those of you out there who use Ironclads, or face them, is - do ironclads really manage to get shots off at the rear armor of vehicles all that often? I'm assuming most people would drop their pods at least 12" away from the table edge to prevent a disastrous scatter. Given that deployment zones aren't all that much bigger, and that most people sit their heavy vehicles toward the rear of their deployment zone, it would seem to me that you're getting shots at side armor at best. Which then begs the question - are H-K missiles worth their cost? Rhino-based vehicles have paper-thin side armor, of course, but with the rumored upgrade to Leman Russes (side armor 13) I may just stick to melta-ing tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiodome Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Q: How often? A: Never. Your opponent knows you have an ironclad incoming. He sets up with rear armour against table edges, covered by other vehicles, or protected by a 'skirmish screen' of infantry (i.e a unit or two is deployed with every model at maximum coherancy to deny anywhere for a pod to land in a certain area). Doesn't make the HKM useless though, as it gives you some range should you scatter beyond your 12" melta usefulness, and keeping a HKM until the late game can cause unpleasant surprise against an opponent the has firmly place the ironclad in the 'short range' category, and has ignored it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tual Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 well if you have second turn... it makes a big difference... more so vs eldar who move so well... side armour at current is great - mostly AV12 or less... giving you a 4+ to glance... it sucks when you roll a 2 to hit with a meltagun and go ...oooh poo, thats it from my 170 point unit this turn... But HK missiles really shine vs MC, most have a 3+ save high toughness and a crappy invul, if any... 3 or 4 wounds.. If you can take 2 of those wounds off with 3 shots, you are likely to kill that MC in the ensuing assault phase when they charge you or you charge them.. sometimes (if you are in cover, most MC's dont have grenades) without loss as you have enough punch to kill them at I4.. bonus is search lights as you can add in some long range support in dawn of war missions without rolling for night fight... and in normal games send in a few missile shots or whatever to finish off that MC targetted by your ironclads which normally would have been beyond your first turn capabilities.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelope King Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I swear by my drop-pod Ironclad, and I've always bemoaned having to decide between the meltagun for popping tanks and the dual heavy-flamer goodness for utterly frying oodles of infantry. And my usual opponent is horde ork, but he sometimes decides to ride a big battlewagon around (methinks he has landraider envy). I never even realized that a few hunter-killer missiles were an option. You learn something new every day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Thanks for the advice, fellas. Sounds like I'm definitely keeping the H-K missiles on my conversion. I've never thought about the advantages that a searchlight offers on a drop podded unit before - it's a fantastic idea! That's going on the model too. Now to add a lascannon or two to my force... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Swift Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 does anybody have a picture of what an ironclad looks like I don't believe I have ever seen one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 If you use the fantastic search function for "ironclad", you'll see several examples of CGI pictures, and people's (often fantastic) conversions. There is not official model or pictures as of yet, so imagine away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marwynn Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Question: How many of you guys use the Hurricane Bolter on your Ironclads? I was tempted to take two Heavy Flamers and the Hurricane Bolter with the Seismic Hammer on an Ironclad. Chew through Hordes or smash up a vehicle in CC. I lose one attack but I keep the Seismic Hammer so the hits will tell. Coupled with a Drop Pod and a pair of HKMs it's pretty pricey at 205 points. It's one reason I went with a normal Heavy Flamer/Multi-Melta Dread instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Question: How many of you guys use the Hurricane Bolter on your Ironclads? I was tempted to take two Heavy Flamers and the Hurricane Bolter with the Seismic Hammer on an Ironclad. Chew through Hordes or smash up a vehicle in CC. I lose one attack but I keep the Seismic Hammer so the hits will tell. Coupled with a Drop Pod and a pair of HKMs it's pretty pricey at 205 points. It's one reason I went with a normal Heavy Flamer/Multi-Melta Dread instead. eh I don't think thats viable since both the DCCW and one of the arm weapons are built in, might be wrong but I think thats how it works. Nice try though (and good effort if it's correct) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marwynn Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Ahh I missed the second line. Good thing I didn't play with that yet. It's DCCW *and* Storm Bolter that is replaced by the Hurricane Bolter. 9 TL Heavy Bolter shots or another Heavy Flamer? Thanks. But the question still stands, the Hurricane Bolter for the DCCW and SB. Good tradeoff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tual Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 9 TL Heavy Bolter shots or another Heavy Flamer? what has 9 TL HB shots? Thanks. But the question still stands, the Hurricane Bolter for the DCCW and SB. Good tradeoff? I dont think so... as far as shooting at range goes, you get one extra str 4 shot... in combat, those extra DCCW attacks are priceless! more so when you need a 6+ to hit as a vehicle tries to drive past your dread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Ahh I missed the second line. Good thing I didn't play with that yet. It's DCCW *and* Storm Bolter that is replaced by the Hurricane Bolter. 9 TL Heavy Bolter shots or another Heavy Flamer? Thanks. But the question still stands, the Hurricane Bolter for the DCCW and SB. Good tradeoff? huricane bolter is 3 twinlinked bolters, not 3 twinlinked heavy bolters, you get 3 tl boltershots, 6 within 12" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Ironclads or Venerable Dreadnoughts if you're dropping them? What do you guys think? (I plan on running 5 Drop Pods) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marwynn Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 That's what happens to my reading comprehension. Forget the Hurricane Bolters then. My vote goes to the Ironclad as far as that goes. Twin flamers and Seismic Hammer seems to be the best options, with a pair of HKs. Much obliged for the clearing up of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 If my opponents field armor at all, i'd be loathe to give up the meltagun for the extra flamer. Even with 2 H-K's, your anti-armor capability goes way, waaay down (though with a corresponding increase in anti-horde). Depends on your most frequent opponent, I suppose. Over here, we see a lot of land raiders, so I'm keeping my meltagun on mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinamarth Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Nothing pisses off a friend more than when you drop your Ironclad and pop his best tank on your first turn. Like mentioned previously in this thread, "most" side armor is low and easy to deal with so I have never concerned myself with the rear armor yet and I always take the two extra hunter killer missiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tual Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Ironclads or Venerable Dreadnoughts if you're dropping them? What do you guys think? (I plan on running 5 Drop Pods) Ironclads definately - you get more toys for the same price and better everything - AV13 is too hard for PF or TH to take on reliably.. I like my meltagun also - one thing Ironclads do well is kill vehicles, but with 3 str 8 shots at ap 3 or better, they can hunt MC fairly well also - The new combat resolution rules will mean that your ironclad is almost always winning combats with a good LD modifier and can kill more models per turn (through over runs or fearless saves) making them good anti hoard without the flamer upgrades.. I rate them highly.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 But a Multi-Melta at BS5 spells death to any vehicle at 12" ;) And re-roll for glancing and penetrating means it has just as much survivalbility if not more than AV13. It's a really hard choice for me. I run my Venerables with EA, HF and MM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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