yergerjo Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Hey all, I need a hand in coming up with a reasonable counter to this demon list which is quite popular in the local tourney scene. I do run a Vulkan list so I bring a lot of Melta to the table,I don't run any librarians (against my fluff, n I don't care for their style personally) I have no inquisition allies to bring. I'm working against, Fateweaver, a Bloodthirster, and 8-22 bloodcrushers depending on the player. The only thing I've found thus far is to shoot, shoot, shoot fateweaver with my meltas until he dies and then move on down; problem is by the time I get that monstrosity to fail enough the crushers are in my face and I'm toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 What else do they bring? I'm assuming they bring something else 'cos if not that's an illegal army, no troops. Odds are they're taking plaguebearers, but I can't be sure so I'll ignore it for now. Right, fateweaver, this guy is tough to kill, a re-rollable 3+ invulnerable along with 3 wounds can be nearly impossible to take down, it might be worth trying a unit of sterngaurd, wounding on 2+ will help a lot. As for the bloodthirster, try trapitting it to make it less of a threat, though I'm not sure of the best unit a marine player can use to tarpit with. As for the bloodcrushers, take a couple of dreads, they actually have basically no way to kill them, except or the one guy who'll likley have rending, but that's still a long shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeychunks Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 They're pricy, but consider taking a unit from Codex: Daemonhunters. An Inquisitor packing a Psycannon and Mystic, or a Purgation Squad will ignore his invulnerable save, making him a T5 turkey. And at S6, he's going to die. Hell, the Inquisitor isn't even expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I'd actually ignore the Fateweaver. Target the Bloodcrushers with AP3 weapons or better and force them to rely on their 5++ save. Even rerolled is basically a 4++. The best answer to the Bloodthirster is fast moving units that he would have a hard time catching. Multi-Melta Attack Bikes or Speeders come to mind, stay outside 12" and he can't catch you, and its unlikely he brought that ranged attack. If you have Sniper Scouts, use them against the Bloodthirster or if you can't, against the Fateweaver. If you have to pit something against the "Thirster, TH/SS Terminators in a LRC do well, especially if you can get the charge in. The nice thing is that AV14 is also rather difficult for Daemons to kill so an LRC would put out alot of shots while still being fairly hard to take out. In essence if you can take out the Khorne units, the rest of the army will probably lack the ability to kill you effectively (assuming his troops are Plaguebearers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yergerjo Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 yeah troops are plaguebearers. But aren't most of their stuff Monstrous creatures? If they are then don't they have 2d6 pen against vehicles (including dreads)? As I said I don't have any inquisition at the moment nor do I really intend on branching that way as I have few enough points in my list already and they won't really help me much with most of the other things I might face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 yeah troops are plaguebearers. But aren't most of their stuff Monstrous creatures? If they are then don't they have 2d6 pen against vehicles (including dreads)? The Fateweaver and 'thirster will get +2D6, the average of which is 7 the Fateweaver isn't likely to be smashing apart AV14 much and its 50/50 on a Dread. The Bloodthirster on the other hand will man-handle a Dread and probably punch through your Land Raider as well. Thats why you hit it at range with fast movers and or up close with TH/SS Terminators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Minigun, the thirster has an 18" threat range, not 12". And if they're telling you that bloodcrushers get 2D6 for armour pen then they're just plain cheating. As for killing a list like this, I'd recommend a good few plasma/melta weapons, they'll ignore the armour on the crushers so they have to rely on their 5+ INV, same deal on the thirster but he has a 4+, they'll have a high enough strength to hurt fateweaver badly, and on top of that they'll ignore the plaguebearers FnP and thereby turn them in to a T5 model with a 5+ save, pretty nasty of you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yergerjo Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 So I can pretty well chalk up my suckage to bad rolls, incorrect target priority, excellent rolls on the part of my opponent, and not killing Fateweaver fast enough. Charge Bloodcrushers with Dreads-check Shoot Melta-Plasma at Fateweaver/Bloodthirster-check Charge Bloodthirster with TH/SS Termies-check Plasma plaguebearers-check (think I had that going before anyways) Prob also didn't help when I had my Vulkan become a spawn... For that toughness check how/what do you roll? Under toughness or to 7's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Chaos_Brute Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 1d6, roll under or equal to (1/3 chance to fail, ironically just like getting wounded with a PF). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju'kosian Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Charge Bloodcrushers with Dreads-check Well if they are deployed in units of 3-4, there's a possibility that there's a "champion" in the unit with "Fury of khorne" so he'll have rending.. TH/SS termies are indeed a very good choice with the new improved inv save, you'll take some casualties but if you got a unit of 8-10 you'll be fine to crush a bloodthirster.. Hit the plaguebearers with vindicators/plasma-cannons, they won't get the FNP because the AP2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Minigun, the thirster has an 18" threat range, not 12". Oops I knew that but brainfarted for some reason. Same logic though, Multi-Meltas can reach out to 24" so just stay outside his charge range and snipe him. Works even better with Speeders are he's only hitting you on 6's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinholt Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 My thoughts: 1 - That is a LOT of points tied up in HQ and Elites. Wiping out his troops to force him to play for a draw at best will be a viable strategy in many missions. Don't neglect it. 2 - If you have to take out fateweaver, you will want to use Sternguard. Volume of fire wounding on 2+ is the way to go, and he's not going to be pleased to take leadership tests on failed saves if you can hit him often enough. 3 - As mentioned, dreadnoughts are good versus bloodcrushers. I would also highly recommend tank shock. Yes. Tank shock. They are big models, and you can often make it very awkward for them to move and assault by pushing them around and blocking their path with your tanks. You can also squeeze them into nice, small areas for flamer templates. 4 - TH/SS terminators will wreck a lot of those things in assault. I hate how they are the answer to a lot of marine problems in close combat in this edition, but they are. I'd consider them strongly. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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