Mechanicum Questions

[Custodian Athiair]

Hey there you would probably of seen my Imperial Palace query which situated from Mechanicum this isn't about that

i have a list of questions that i need answering becuase otherwise the book makes little sense to me

 

ok here we go:

1) What does the Epilouge thingy at the end mean?

2) The Imperial Fists were they in gold armour?

3) It mentions also that Rogal Dorn was the leading Commander of the loyal legions is that true or did i read it wrong?

4) Is the book before Fulgrim or is it just me because Istaan V hasn't happened yet becuase Rogal Dorn talks about sending people there?

5) Everyone says that the 3 loyal legions getting hammered at Istaan V was the Emperors fault but becuase (according to Mechanicum) he was under ground and left command of his legions to Dorn (answer question above) then surely it was Dorns faukt?

6) How did the Dark Mechanicum lose? They outnumbered, outgunned and out forged them so how the hell did they lose?

7) What happened to the last 2 Knights of Tarnis (the ones you were at the Labrinith Nocrotis (or whatever))?

8) It mentions that the Inferno Cannon (i think might of bean Volcano Cannon) of the Imperator was later to be found and used on another planet but surely it was infested with scrapcode and therfore Chaos?

9) Was the Dragon the Void Dragon (just to clear up)?

10) What is the point in the Guardian of the Dragon? it did say but i couldn't make sense of it.

11) Is it just me or was the scene the the Guardian showed Dalia Saint George?

12) What is the book and when was the secret of Mars revealed and what di it do?

 

sorry for the long list

 

but thanks in advance for answering these

 

Athiair :D

[Brother Captain Aeimnestus]

1) What does the Epilouge thingy at the end mean?

2) The Imperial Fists were they in gold armour?

3) It mentions also that Rogal Dorn was the leading Commander of the loyal legions is that true or did i read it wrong?

4) Is the book before Fulgrim or is it just me because Istaan V hasn't happened yet becuase Rogal Dorn talks about sending people there?

5) Everyone says that the 3 loyal legions getting hammered at Istaan V was the Emperors fault but becuase (according to Mechanicum) he was under ground and left command of his legions to Dorn (answer question above) then surely it was Dorns faukt?

6) How did the Dark Mechanicum lose? They outnumbered, outgunned and out forged them so how the hell did they lose?

7) What happened to the last 2 Knights of Tarnis (the ones you were at the Labrinith Nocrotis (or whatever))?

8) It mentions that the Inferno Cannon (i think might of bean Volcano Cannon) of the Imperator was later to be found and used on another planet but surely it was infested with scrapcode and therfore Chaos?

9) Was the Dragon the Void Dragon (just to clear up)?

10) What is the point in the Guardian of the Dragon? it did say but i couldn't make sense of it.

11) Is it just me or was the scene the the Guardian showed Dalia Saint George?

12) What is the book and when was the secret of Mars revealed and what di it do?

 

Well i know the answers to some of hte questions

 

1) No idea - jsut ending the story i suppose

2) Yes, they origionally had gold armour but then after the heresy they changed to yellow (probly at the same time that they were split into Crimson Fists and Black Templars after fighting the Iron Warriors).

3) Yes Rogal Dorn is commanding them and the Emperor is busy underground doign stuff with his web-way gate

4) This book happens around the time of the Istcaan III and V stuff ( galexy in flames, flight of the eisenstein and fulgrim) as it mentions sending 7 legions which 4 will tunr traitor and later on it says there are reports coming back but they are sketchy nad they dont know what happens. And later on they know Hours has one as they start to reinforce Terra

5) Well i think it was the traitors falut for shooting them really :D, could be Mr. E's falut somehow.......

6) The dark mechanicum one didnt they (sorry it was a while since i read the book)

7) I think that the knights jsut do not much lese during hte hersay - but who knows what will happen in later books?

8) Yeah the big titan cannon thing whatever it was might have been curropted by chaos but, its probly to titan gun that appears in Dawn of War: Dark Crusade at the imperial gaurd HQ map

9) Yes it was

10) pffffft no idea

11) Yup the Emperor was saint George !!! WOOOOOOOOOOO

12) No idea again....

[Custodian Athiair]

i have another question that i forgot and that it:

13) It said that the Custodial Guard wore Bronze Armour i always thought they wore Gold please claer that up

 

thanks

 

Athiair :P

[Grand Master Tyrak]

1) What does the Epilouge thingy at the end mean?

2) The Imperial Fists were they in gold armour?

3) It mentions also that Rogal Dorn was the leading Commander of the loyal legions is that true or did i read it wrong?

4) Is the book before Fulgrim or is it just me because Istaan V hasn't happened yet becuase Rogal Dorn talks about sending people there?

5) Everyone says that the 3 loyal legions getting hammered at Istaan V was the Emperors fault but becuase (according to Mechanicum) he was under ground and left command of his legions to Dorn (answer question above) then surely it was Dorns faukt?

6) How did the Dark Mechanicum lose? They outnumbered, outgunned and out forged them so how the hell did they lose?

7) What happened to the last 2 Knights of Tarnis (the ones you were at the Labrinith Nocrotis (or whatever))?

8) It mentions that the Inferno Cannon (i think might of bean Volcano Cannon) of the Imperator was later to be found and used on another planet but surely it was infested with scrapcode and therfore Chaos?

9) Was the Dragon the Void Dragon (just to clear up)?

10) What is the point in the Guardian of the Dragon? it did say but i couldn't make sense of it.

11) Is it just me or was the scene the the Guardian showed Dalia Saint George?

12) What is the book and when was the secret of Mars revealed and what di it do?

 

1) Speculation abounds . . .

2) I believe so.

3) Yes. The Emperor is doing something we don't know about (yet).

4) After Isstvaan III (Garro has been found) but before Isstvaan V (Dorn still thinks he has 13 loyal Legions).

5) The blame game isn't something the Emperor really indulges in. Besides, the Heresy and all it's events are far too complex to lay blame at any one door.

6) The Dark Mechanicum won (for the time being).

7) We don't know yet.

8) The Hellstorm Cannon appears again in Dawn of War: Dark Crusade. The names of the Titan and the history is exactly the same apart from the commanding Princeps name. It is located in the Imperial Guard Stronghold.

9) Yes.

10) To keep the Void Dragon locked up and guarded (at some point in the 38th-39th millenium the Necrons will try to awake the Dragon by attacking Mars).

11) Yes. The Emperor masqueraded as St George.

12) Speculations, speculations . . . :lol:

13) Gold, Bronze, at all looks the same from a distance. I doubt it was made of either, it would be too weak.

[chromedog]

1) What does the Epilouge thingy at the end mean? It's just a way of tying up some ends for the benefit of us "future readers".

2) The Imperial Fists were they in gold armour? Yes. After they were split into the Crimson Fists and Black Templars, they adopted the symbolic heraldic gold (yellow).

3) It mentions also that Rogal Dorn was the leading Commander of the loyal legions is that true or did i read it wrong? No, you read it right.

4) Is the book before Fulgrim or is it just me because Istaan V hasn't happened yet becuase Rogal Dorn talks about sending people there? Don't know. TBH, it's the only one i've actually finished so far.

5) Everyone says that the 3 loyal legions getting hammered at Istaan V was the Emperors fault but because (according to Mechanicum) he was under ground and left command of his legions to Dorn (answer question above) then surely it was Dorns fault? Perhaps the big E was blamed because he chose someone who wasn't as "capable" as he thought (it's his fault because he put the wrong guy in charge). Then again, he thought that Horus and the other 'bad' primarchs were incorruptable. Hubris, much?

6) How did the Dark Mechanicum lose? They outnumbered, outgunned and out forged them so how the hell did they lose? Plot. Someone has to, and we know how it ends.

7) What happened to the last 2 Knights of Tarnis (the ones you were at the Labrinith Nocrotis (or whatever))? They survive and live peacefully, taking no further part in the story (perhaps because the guardian is also watching over them).

8) It mentions that the Inferno Cannon (i think might of bean Volcano Cannon) of the Imperator was later to be found and used on another planet but surely it was infested with scrapcode and therfore Chaos? Or maybe it was just the STC for it that was rediscovered on another planet, not just a physical weapon.

9) Was the Dragon the Void Dragon (just to clear up)? The Void Dragon is an eldar god/mythic figure The necron C'tan god is just called "the Dragon"

10) What is the point in the Guardian of the Dragon? it did say but i couldn't make sense of it. Their point is to watch overr and ensure that no-one tries to release it.

11) Is it just me or was the scene the the Guardian showed Dalia Saint George? Yep. The big E is EVERY mythic hero archetype combined. To paraphrase Kosh from Babylon 5 "He has always been here." guiding mankind, prompting in certain directions. Manipulating.

12) What is the book and when was the secret of Mars revealed and what di it do? Don't know. That's just it, isn't it. It's a "secret". If we knew, it wouldn't be one.

 

13) It said that the Custodial Guard wore Bronze Armour i always thought they wore Gold please clear that up. Gold/bronze. It all depends on lighting and stuff. Sol's light is dimmer from mars, and the constant smog wouldn't help.

[Custodian Athiair]

can i make a point you all seem to be saying that (question 12) the book wasn't taken

but it said when Dalia got back to the cavern that the book was missing

 

just a note

 

Athair :)

[Custodian Athiair]

sorry to post twice but i would like to make a point

and that is that everyone says that oh the Emperor lead us down this road towards heresy and ulitamtly his 'death' and humanity struggling for existance

but from this book it gives me the impression that he knew what he was doing and had no idea what Horus was going to do

but he did have forsight becuase he put the 'Dragon' on Mars becuase he knew that the 'Dragon' would if you will feed knoledge of machinery into Mars and so then Mars could build things for his armies

so he knew exactly what he was doing he had i all planned and it would have worked, but he couldn't see what the Chaos Gods were up to

 

so what do you think of that?

 

Athiair :P

[randian]

The Emperor has foresight, but that ability is a warp-based one. Unsurprisingly, powerful warp entities can influence visions or give visions that are outright falsehoods to mortals using such abilities. No sophisticated and knowledgeable psyker should rely on them. That's why I think the Cabal in Legion were unwitting pawns of the Great Annihilator. They were suckered into showing Alpharius what the Chaos Gods wanted them to see, pushing Alpha Legion to the side of Chaos.

[Brother Captain Andrecus]

To paraphrase the guy above me:

 

The Emperor has foresight, he just doesn't have ENOUGH of it.

 

Which is exactly true.

 

The two Knights survive and live out their lives peacefully, I suppose. Yay.

 

Also, I'm not SURE how the Dark Mechanicum are eventually defeated... Possibly another book will explore that.

[binary]

1) What does the Epilouge thingy at the end mean?

2) The Imperial Fists were they in gold armour?

3) It mentions also that Rogal Dorn was the leading Commander of the loyal legions is that true or did i read it wrong?

4) Is the book before Fulgrim or is it just me because Istaan V hasn't happened yet becuase Rogal Dorn talks about sending people there?

5) Everyone says that the 3 loyal legions getting hammered at Istaan V was the Emperors fault but becuase (according to Mechanicum) he was under ground and left command of his legions to Dorn (answer question above) then surely it was Dorns fault?

6) How did the Dark Mechanicum lose? They outnumbered, outgunned and out forged them so how the hell did they lose?

7) What happened to the last 2 Knights of Tarnis (the ones you were at the Labrinith Nocrotis (or whatever))?

8) It mentions that the Inferno Cannon (i think might of bean Volcano Cannon) of the Imperator was later to be found and used on another planet but surely it was infested with scrapcode and therfore Chaos?

9) Was the Dragon the Void Dragon (just to clear up)?

10) What is the point in the Guardian of the Dragon? it did say but i couldn't make sense of it.

11) Is it just me or was the scene the the Guardian showed Dalia Saint George?

12) What is the book and when was the secret of Mars revealed and what did it do?

13) It said that the Custodial Guard wore Bronze Armour i always thought they wore Gold please clear that up.

 

Right lets see if i can help here

1)Just a way of tying the story into future events that we already now about

2)Yup. Changed it to the heraldic version of gold (yellow) after the split into crimson fists/imperial fists/black templars etc.

3)You read it right. As the emperors praetorian Dorn would have been in charge after the betrayal was revealed

4)Set during Fulgrim/after Flight of the Eisenstein, after Istvaan III, before Istvaan V

5)Blame Culture. Dorn was at fault for his overconfidence that the 7 legions sent were loyal, Ferrus Manus was at fault for being so reckless, and the big E was at fault for not seeing this coming (though that may have been the fault of the chaos gods)

6)The Dark Mechanicum won.....until the seige of terra and the scouring, then they would have been chased back to the EOT with the rest of the traitors.

7)The last knights of Taranis along with the two survivors (caxton and zouche) stayed hidden in the secret lab owned by adept zeth in the medusa fosse until after the heresy (see the epilogue)

8)As already stated the Hellstorm Cannon appears again in Dawn of War: Dark Crusade. The names of the Titan and the history is exactly the same apart from the commanding Princeps name. It is located in the Imperial Guard Stronghold.

9)Yes. Void dragon is the eldar name for one of the Ctan the fought during the war in heaven. This would also explain why, in Codex:Eldar, the map of the Galaxy has the same runes marking Mars and Pavonis (where Nightbringer was found)

10)The point of the Guardian is to keep the dragon subdued and "tame" so that it's influences can still affect Mars, the necrons don't know where it is, and it doesn't wake up and eat the sun!

11)Again yes and no. Remember that it was an interpretation of what happened as the Dragon remembered it, so it's all a bit allegorical. Also ties nicely into the whole "the emperor has always been here, guiding humanity" mythological hero thing the big E's got going

12)The book is Adept Seymon's written interpretation of the Dragons memories. The secret was revealed in the Book Titanicus by Dan Abnett (it's found in the ancient data files of the Legio Tempestus). *SPOILER*

It almost causes civil war between the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Imperium during a chaos invasion. It's used as a power play for a magos to try and seize power and cause a schism in the AdMech, but because of how it plays out it's discredited as fiction.

 

13)Both and Neither. Adeptus Custodes wear gold coloured armour, a much richer version of the gold of the Imperial Fists. Lighting will affect how dark this looks, so spotlights = bright and shiny, low light = dark and bronze.

 

Wow....longest post ever... :lol:

[Custodian Athiair]

thanks every question is now answered

cheers everyone

 

Athiair ;)

[jakiwis]

Whoa, Now I understand some parts I didint when I read mechanicum. I am wondering who stole that book, it cant be the 2 Knights. Zouche was carrying claxton. hmmmmmm

[JDraco]

Speculating on 12) Isn't it the case that, in the pre heresy era that the Mechanicum already know in part, even if its just factions, that the Emperor is unlikely to be their Machine God - as the book talks about the Emperor essentially giving them an unsaid "with me or against me" warning. It seems to suggest that the current 41st millennium situation of the Emperor being the Machine God to the majority of the Mechanicus outside of a few individuals who know the truth, or a version of it, is a byproduct of the aftermath of the heresy.

 

Those that, in the heresy era, believe the Machine God is another being, are all going to die when the loyalists attack them, or flee and be discredited as Chaos. The Mechanicum loyal to the Emperor are going to be largely "new" people as the minority that were loyal to the Emperor regardless of their views on what he has told them, are dead. The Emperor, Malcador etc are going to ensure that the Mechanicum after the heresy is a loyal one which will not abandon the Imperium.

 

For this to be the great secret seems too blindingly obvious, I think the more likely answer lies with the links of Mars to the Ctan/Necrons.

 

In the fluff, Codex Necrons, there is reference to a Necron ship somehow appearing in the Segmentum Solar, landing on Mars, and escaping. Other fluff already gives a lot of detail as to how impossibly hard it would be for a mass fleet of enemy warships to even get close to Terra, yet a lone ship does it, lands, presumably gets/looks for something, and goes.

 

I think that the link in Titanicus is relevent, but that the secret is not that the Emperor is not the Machine God, it's what/who the Machine God is. Necrons have been pretty much been left alone by GW for a long time, it makes sense to start lying the groundwork for adding to them. The Necrons only make a reappearance in the 40K universe within the time scale Mechanicum suggests, 10K years. Coincidence? There are a few fluff references to them slightly earlier BUT these can be down to triggering tombs early etc A Gaunts Ghosts novel referenced "Men Of Iron" and an STC machine - sounds a little too similar to the Necrons in design, without obviously a lot of the other features the Necrons have. Whilsts I cannot remember them specifically, in the past couple of years a lot of GW novels are featuring the Mechanicum/Necrons in stories where they are searching for technology.

 

In Titanicus the Inquisitor that arrives suggests that the Priet who manipulated the data for his own ends was close to the truth, surely if the secret is that the Emperor is NOT the Machine God then that is not "close", its bang on.

 

Obviously this is all just what I'm thinking, not trying to say anyone else is right/wrong, just interested in maybe what people think about it.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

In the fluff, Codex Necrons, there is reference to a Necron ship somehow appearing in the Segmentum Solar, landing on Mars, and escaping. Other fluff already gives a lot of detail as to how impossibly hard it would be for a mass fleet of enemy warships to even get close to Terra, yet a lone ship does it, lands, presumably gets/looks for something, and goes.

 

All five Wraith-Class ships were destroyed, though no wreckage was ever found. Its also referenced in the BFG fluff for said ship class. Only one managed to land at the Noctis Labyrinthe.

 

A Gaunts Ghosts novel referenced "Men Of Iron" and an STC machine - sounds a little too similar to the Necrons in design, without obviously a lot of the other features the Necrons have.

 

The Iron Men are an old bit of fluff detailing wars between Humanity and Robots, and are cited as the reason why A.I. is banned in the Imperium.

[Captain Idaho]

They were shroud class light cruisers actually...

 

I really enjoy high level politicing (which is why I love Dune) so I enjoy hearing the Primarchs and other high ranking officials are doing things, but we seem to be getting less of this recently in the HH books...

 

I did enjoy the little bit of dialogue between Dorn and Malcador where Dorn expressed his concerns for his brothers whom he had lost contact with, stating that Guilliman and Russ could look after themselves and were not a concern but his other brothers were worrying him. :confused:

[randian]

For this to be the great secret seems too blindingly obvious, I think the more likely answer lies with the links of Mars to the Ctan/Necrons.

Blindingly obvious to us. Even if it's true, it's explosive heresy in the Imperium.

[jakiwis]

The links to Mars and the Ctans was already stirring and after mechanicum it was finally revealed. The link between Ctan and the Iron Hand Primarch would also be a nice, with those metal hands and all.

 

I am wondering, how important is that book anyway? I mean Seymon is dead, it's Dhalia now so it's not really going to be worth much since Dhalia can just write herself a new book.

[Hyrion]

i hope that i dont say anything twice......

1) What does the Epilouge thingy at the end mean?

its just a way to tell you go and buy titanicus (which in fact is a bad book)

because there it happens which is referred to

[Kuh Tathor]

10) What is the point in the Guardian of the Dragon? it did say but i couldn't make sense of it.

 

The Dragon was trapped on Mars using a technology wrought by the Emperor, the Guardian was put in place to maintain that equipment so that the prison was kept working. That was the whole thing about being given a bit of the Emperor's power.

 

Interesting thing is that Dalia already had a power to see how machines worked, the book explains that this is used as a way to draw the next Guardian to the Dragon.

[Dark Mechanicum]

Heh, I had some of the same questions but since Horus uses Mars as his staging ground for the attack on Terra. I'm just expecting more for the Dark Mechanicum. And they only lost about 1 battle and that wiped out the Legio Mortis that was on Mars which is why their are so few mentioned anywhere else. Though in the third book of the Eisenhorn Trilogy, it is a Legio Mortis Warhound that is woken up since they were very Khornate in their attitude.

[Sköll Khan]

Another question, I didnt get the machine in the cavern, what was its point?

 

I'm talking about the "gas discharge machine of perturbation variety, which creates pulsed electro-phonic glow" thus measuring auras? (p349)

 

It kills those who enter it, it has something to do with keeping the dragon imprisoned, but why does it produce aura scans of various parts of the body?

[randian]

Though in the third book of the Eisenhorn Trilogy, it is a Legio Mortis Warhound that is woken up since they were very Khornate in their attitude.

I thought Legio Mortis was pledged to Nurgle.

[Ju'kosian]

Though in the third book of the Eisenhorn Trilogy, it is a Legio Mortis Warhound that is woken up since they were very Khornate in their attitude.

I thought Legio Mortis was pledged to Nurgle.

 

I don't know about that, but isnt it the Legio Mortis that is mentioned in "Storm of Iron" ?

[Rob_Loken]

Wasn't it the Dies Irae? Which was a memeber of Legio Mortis that was on Istvaan III when they purge the loyalists from the traitor legions.

[Brother-chaplain Astador]

The Legio was pledged to Chaos, be it Nurgle, Khorne..

 

+

 

I always assumed that the fists had always worn the same colour it, it was merely described as 'gold' or 'golden yellow'...