SoulReaver296 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 i apologize if this is in the wrong forum Recently on warseer, a rumor thread on the new IG codex (link) has found that hellguns will become 18" S3 AP3 R.F., and hellpistols 6" S3 AP3 Pistol. Presuming this is correct, will this become the "next assault cannon"? Could this still work with our stormtroopers (following any changes of points in the next codex IG)? What do you think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
panbient Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 i would definitely welcome it, but i've got my doubts on having it as anything more than a house rule, a very cool house rule hehe Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1891300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flintlocklaser Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Agreed. While this would make sense, analogous situations (the Assault Cannon already mentioned by the OP, the new 5th Ed Marine weapons/wargear changes) so far have not propagated downwards to older codices. So if I was going to bet on it, my money would be on the Inquisitorial Stormtroopers limping along with their current hellguns until C:DH and C:WH get redone - assuming, of course, that in whatever fashion that eventually happens there's still an entry for Inquisitorial Stormies at all.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1891306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripath Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 STORM SHIELDS! is all I'm going to say, thank you GW for throwing out your tradition of saying a bolter is a bolter is a bolter and is a bolter. You just have to keep the same name even though your changing all the stats. sorry I just think that they should change the name if they change the stats for a weapon of one army but not another. Instead of creating the hassal of me wondering which codex my opponent is using half way through my third turn and me realizing that my strategy isn't going to work. If GW just released a faq that said that all "shotguns are now str 4" for all armies it would make a lot more sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1891309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakehunter52 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I was wondering when this would pop up. Yeah, I saw this too. We are going to be stuck for a while with our "antiquated" equipment in typical =I= as we are with AC, storm shields and the like. And personally, as a difference of wargear issue, I'm ok with that. The new dex gets new gear but we get the stuff that they didn't update, like our LRC and NFWs and Thunder Hammers. It all balances out. Plus, it is unfair to call GW bad names for not staying to "a bolter is a bolter" dogma because with change there is going to be an appropriate price adjustment but that is much harder to do without just redoing the dex and that still ends up having people complain but just about the point cost of items. Now, if it is about whether or not GW should be changing the rules when they know this is going to happen...that's for another time. :P Frankly, I think that this news will have a big effect on the =I= community, it is essentially another nail in our nearly-completed coffin. On the Sister side, our play style is going to take you real close, double tap range easily, and a full squad of will take out 6 sisters a turn. GK are also having it rough because by taking a valkrie, they will be able to get close and fast. It will effectively negate our shrouding and mean that we will almost never get to shoot them first, meaning big point losses quick. It is really hard to tell who it is going to be worse for since these guys really hamper both army's main strategies. It will probably force us to make effective use of transports and make anti-armour all that more critical. However, it does give us something to look forward to when our dex comes around, because we will know how to use them because of how much we have beat them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1891363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I can't stand this utter rubbish any longer. GW need to update all wargear to bring it into line. It made *no* sense originally, and it's just getting worse and worse. So the Inq will have Storm Troppers that are stuck with *** backwards Hellguns, while the Plantery Defense gets a gun for every 'Trooper that can melt through power armour like a hot knife thorugh butter. Sort this crap out GW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1891440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I don't think GKs will have no solution, psycannons will still ignore all saves apart from cover and cause Instant Death to boot. At least as long as the Grenadier Doctrine doesn't stay. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1891549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperator Mos Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 The only way that hellguns would have that stat, is if Stormtroops are a 0-1 choice, or the hellgun automatically explodes, or you can only shoot once a game, or they cost 40 points a model, etc. Storm troopers aren't going to be better than Sternguard. And everybody should stop crying about codex creep. Go play Eldar or Orks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1891578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Storm Troopers won't have WS4, S4, T4, or a 3+ Save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1891610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevianID Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 And I bet the storm troopers wont get cheap plasma any more either. Plus, to counter those nice ap3 hellguns, you can just stay inside your rhino, or better yet, assault them! 18 hellgun shots (from 9 troopers, not sure what the sarge gets) on a BS4 model will yield 12 hits and 4 wounds to marines. The remaining 6 marines in assault will make a mockery of the storm troopers, even without considering their pistol shots going in. Though when its all said and done, I wanted the hellguns to be 18 inch s3 ap5 assault 2 pinning weapons, the AP3 rapidfire rules wise is good and all but my limited understanding of the fluff was that hellguns were supposed to be assault weapons first and armor penetrators second--along the lines of the tau carbine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1891717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakehunter52 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 And I bet the storm troopers wont get cheap plasma any more either. Plus, to counter those nice ap3 hellguns, you can just stay inside your rhino, or better yet, assault them! 18 hellgun shots (from 9 troopers, not sure what the sarge gets) on a BS4 model will yield 12 hits and 4 wounds to marines. The remaining 6 marines in assault will make a mockery of the storm troopers, even without considering their pistol shots going in. True, your example does result in the Stormtrooper squad suffering in the end but that is not the big picture. I doubt GW is going to drastically increase the price of these troopers since they just got a drop in leadership but more importantly guardsmen just dropped in points by 33%. Not only are they killing half of your marines (which makes them close to earning their points back, more so if they are GK) they provide a great distraction and tie you up in a round of combat or two. This is valuable in so many respects that it makes them real thorn in you side. Oh and plasma is rumored to be going up to 15pts but I wouldn't take it anyway, meltas makes them them way more versatile against all types of armies. Though when its all said and done, I wanted the hellguns to be 18 inch s3 ap5 assault 2 pinning weapons, the AP3 rapidfire rules wise is good and all but my limited understanding of the fluff was that hellguns were supposed to be assault weapons first and armor penetrators second--along the lines of the tau carbine. Don't be suprised if they change the fluff on that. One of the reasonings could be that because of the 13th Crusade, Cadia realized the need of having a surgical strike force that could effectively deal with the Chaos Space Marine threat. So, after a little tinkering and Ad Mech help, Ap 3 Hellguns. I'm sure that this move is in response to removing the doctrine system, that by specializing the troops, you can create a lot of diversity like in the old book. Also, it is almost balancing because it makes it a rock-paper-sissors game. Stormtroopers are no better against orks than before. Same goes for guardians and guants, in fact they are probably worse if they get any point increase. You just have to start learning to play to your strengths. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1891867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senseilord Ashahara Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 AP 3 lasguns? Don't be silly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1891908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Of course not. They're AP3 Hellguns, not AP3 Lasguns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1891945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senseilord Ashahara Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 A hellgun being an over charged Lasgun with a higher peneratrating and stopping power issued primarily to specialist units but also found arming the troops of technologically advanced planets. But a lasgun nonetheless. And lasguns and pistols do not carve through power armour. It's just more new codex rumour milling. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1891950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askari Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Ap 3 hellfguns are no better than howling banshees and they'r very vulnerable in close combat. I'd like to see the change to hellguns, basic weapons need to define the unit instead of the special ones. Maybe now more people will take full squads instead of 5 men with double plasma. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1892009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senseilord Ashahara Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I suppose that i'm alone in liking the hellgun's AP 5 as an appropriate illustration of it's effectivness? "If I wanted to have similar arms to the space marines I'd be a space marine player. But I'm a guardsman and I like fighting against the odds" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1892043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 But it also means they suck. These are Stormtroopers, they shouldn't suck. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1892061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargazer Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Yeah but come on guys tha would make it better at penetrating armour than a .75 cal exploding mini missile!!!!!! Sorry just can't see this happening any time soon as it would be just ridiculous I don't think even GW are that blind to their own fluff!!!!!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1892102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I don't think even GW are that blind to their own fluff!!!!!!!! *Raises eyebrows* I reckon AP 4 would be the best in-game representation for Hellguns. Still quite powerful, good for specialist troopers, but not up to the level where it goes through power armour like a hot knife through butter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1892134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Yeah but come on guys tha would make it better at penetrating armour than a .75 cal exploding mini missile!!!!!! And? Lasers are some of the best cutting tools in the world (oddly enough, the other one I can think of is heated water under ludicrously high pressure). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1892166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 and to think that back in the 2ed [where the weapons were really different from each other] the difference between a lasgun and a hellgun was -1 to save the normal lasgun didnt have . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1892192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakehunter52 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Ok, for those of you who don't believe I present to you the infamous french leak: http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=52955&d=1235038252 Fusil radiant laser for you non-french speakers. Now you can move out of denial and onto the next stage, anger I think it is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1892237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Believe me, they'll be plenty of anger, but bargaining comes next and that might be a little harder. Edit- What's the "pistolet ecorcheur"? A sniper pistol? Seriously? With AP2? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1892241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakehunter52 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Believe me, they'll be plenty of anger, but bargaining comes next and that might be a little harder. Edit- What's the "pistolet ecorcheur"? A sniper pistol? Seriously? With AP2? It's believed to be the weapon of Sly Marbo, a SC. Stay on topic. Frankly, I like how they expanded the weapon options for guard so much. Maybe this is good tidings for the psycannon and such, that it will be expanded from a str 6 weapon into different forms (like a str 4 heavy 5 to fight the never ending waves or str 8 blast to kill the greater daemons). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1892345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 yup dont worry inquisition i feel your pain as i am a die hard BA i fully understand the homocidal rage you are currnetly experienceing and i am here to tell you to "give in to your anger". personally either way the rulling on this goes GW is getting a seriously pissed off letter from me come guard release. one they dont upgrade and i finally snap at their stupidity. two they do give inquisition the upgrade and i still snap because my BA dont get one. either way im willing to bet theres gonna be blood. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161108-of-the-new-hellguns-and-pistols/#findComment-1892607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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