Prathios Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Since when can Inquisitors be refused by anyone? Technically, they can't. The Inquisitorial Mandate technically gives Inquisitors absolute power, their authority exceeds even that of the High Lords - however in practice it's not that simple. Inquisitorial authority may be absolute, but their authority is only as good as their ability to enforce it. For example, although the Inquisitorial Mandate superceeds the Treaty of Mars thus giving an Inquisitor authority over the AdMech, even down to giving them jurisdiction on Forge Worlds - in practice there are certain requests that the AdMech are not going to comply with and in those cases there is little leverage an Inquisitor can use against an organisation that has a virtual monopoly over all technology in the Imperium. It's a similar situation with the Astartes. The Inquisitorial Mandate gives an Inquisitor authority over the Astartes, but Chapters value their autonomy and do not like being ordered about. Hence why it is generally considered best for an Inquisitor to 'request' the assistance of marines. Attempting to force your authority on a thousand of the most powerful and well equipped warriors in the Imperium is almost impossible - there is little an Inquisitor can use as leverage on a Chapter. Personally, I don't buy the idea of a Penitent Titan - the AdMech aren't going to build one for the Ecclesiarchy. And if the Ecclesiarchy did manage to get their hands on a titan-like warmachine, such a thing would be valuable beyond compare - they're not likely to hand it over to a bunch of heretics to play with. I reckon that if you want a super-heavy war machine for the Sororitas, you should build a Baneblade recommissioned as an armed mobile shrine. Or something even bigger as a mobile cathedral. ^^^ there it is. Well said Kaled. I was unaware that the mandate superceeds the treaty of mars however. Thats news to me. Again though since in practice it changes nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaled100 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I was unaware that the mandate superceeds the treaty of mars however. Thats news to me. Again though since in practice it changes nothing.There's an interesting scene in Dark Adeptus where an Inquisitor and Magos are debating who has authority - in the end they decide that there's more to gain by working together than arguing. I guess that pretty much sums up how the Imperium operates - the are so many organisations, all of whom have a great deal of power, but none of whom could stand without the others so they're forced to work together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 You know the biggest problem with having read so many 40k books is that I am starting to forget some of the books. Dark Adeptus seems to be fitting in that one. All I can remember about that book now is the Mechanicus at odds with the Inquisition (hence part of the basis for my arguement) and all the tunnel fighting inside the planet. That scene you're talking about totally slips my mind. Maybe a re-read is in order. Still havn't read mechanicus yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaled100 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 You know the biggest problem with having read so many 40k books is that I am starting to forget some of the books. Dark Adeptus seems to be fitting in that one.I know what you mean. I remember I put a reference to this bit in the Librarium article I wrote on the Inquisition, so I can give you a page reference - p64 onwards is the sequence in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I know what you mean. I remember I put a reference to this bit in the Librarium article I wrote on the Inquisition, so I can give you a page reference - p64 onwards is the sequence in question. And for that fast response with a page number I dub thee: Sir Badass, Slayer of Ignorance. I'm going on my 53rd book I think (I tend to lose books so its hard to remember how many ive read now.) And I read this one about three years ago, so I gotta check that out after work. I liked that one more than most people I think, but the whole living daemon planet was a really neat plot device. Out of curiosity have you read the new GK book yet? Its very good and I have a funny story on it if you're interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_cheat137 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Well, rarely have I seen a thread so efficiently highjacked :( To offer my opinion to the original poster: go ahead and build it, use it, and love it! A common theme when it comes to game rules here is "if you don't like it, change it, it's not like Jervis is going to come and make you play his way". Well the same goes for the fluff; if you're inspired by something like a penitent titan, and if it doesn't fit into Official Canon, then go ahead and make up your own story for it! It would be a real shame I think to let what's 'official' get in the way of a cool idea, because ultimately that's what this game is all about. Personally I think it fits (mostly) within the fluff; with some tweaking I can imagine an order somewhere far from the authority of Ad Mech constructing or unearthing one of these things. A whole lot of them would require a bit more fluff tweaking ;). As for game balance, right now it seems maybe a tad weak; the ranged armament is kinda weak sauce for titans; it will still scare the pants off most footsloggers, but mechanized and vehicles wont care. What do 2 Titan Close Combat weapons do? 2 Str D attacks in CC? Overall, with the void shields I'd say you're sitting around 600 points, so maybe not as weak sauce as I originally thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaled100 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Well, rarely have I seen a thread so efficiently highjacked ;)Yeah, sorry about that. I have to say though - even though I don't think a penitent titan fits the fluff all that well, I'm prepared to forgive almost anything if it results in a great model. Out of curiosity have you read the new GK book yet? Its very good and I have a funny story on it if you're interested.I haven't read it yet (I'm trying to cut down my intake of BL novels as they're mainly pretty trashy), but I've heard good things about it so might give it a try. Will your story spoil it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Out of curiosity have you read the new GK book yet? Its very good and I have a funny story on it if you're interested. There's a new GK book? What is it, and who is it by? The last one I heard released was Ben Counter's "Hammer of Daemons" about a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaled100 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 There's a new GK book? What is it, and who is it by? The last one I heard released was Ben Counter's "Hammer of Daemons" about a year ago.I assume that he meant 'latest' rather than there being a brand new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 ah yes sorry about that, latest was a better word... I was referring to Hammer of Daemons. But sadly my story would indeed give away an important plot point 2 pages from the books close so I will remain silent for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 But sadly my story would indeed give away an important plot point 2 pages from the books close so I will remain silent for now. You could always PM me, I've read the book. I'd be happy to share my little bit about the Rubicon in Grey Knights too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewl Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Glad to see that someone noticed that the tread got sidetracked. :-D It felt like you where all trying to discurage the building of something which sounds like a great idea for a huge tabletop conversion. I for one would like to add that (As titans are just for apocalyps anyway) a penitant titan would look extremely cool, it would be a nice way to fit using a titan in a sisters/inquisition army making match in looks and theme. Using counts as and basing your points costs/abilities on an existing titan model would help getting the beast accepted, after all a titan size model with 2 enormous flamers is a lot better then the SPAM Strength D everywhere that Titans are used for now. I hope you really go through with this as I'd love to see an actual model. Good luck building ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Well I certainly didn't want to discourage its just you would have to go to great lengths to justify the fluff. And I said more than once I'd like to see someone try. A penitent Titan would be like one of those old Marvel What if comics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Prathios Posted Today, 03:58 PM Well I certainly didn't want to discourage its just you would have to go to great lengths to justify the fluff. Agreed. As unfluffy as I find it, that would never discourage me from playing against it or make me insult someone who built it. I for one would like to add that (As titans are just for apocalyps anyway) a penitant titan would look extremely cool, it would be a nice way to fit using a titan in a sisters/inquisition army making match in looks and theme. Indeed, joint forces often use army badges to tie the force together in uniform. Perhaps the separate Mechanicum, Guard etc could adopt the symbol of the Sororitas order leading the army as their heraldic army badge? Such campaign symbols are often retained as badges of honour either in uniform or on banners as a reminder of the conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewl Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Exactly: What if Superman was evil!!!! and Lex Luthor the hero!!!! :D Free your mind, you could explain it as something a local forge batched together in a hive in on a church planet under attack in desperation to fight off the enemy's large war machines because they know no help is comming. (Survival first, imperial editcs second you know.) Or a semi wrecked titan where the crew compartment was smashed out killing the regulars which gave them a frame to rebuild. Can't let those holy relics be despoiled by chaos! It's an entire universe built to let your imagination go wild. Just about anything is explainable, especially in apocalyps. (Heck, I hope to one day build an rogue Xenos Inquisitor army with mind controlled tyranids (Counts as Nid list) with several inq units counting as some nid units and radio mind control instead of synapse. Model the nids with some antenna's and tech in their heads and we're done :thanks: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 What do 2 Titan Close Combat weapons do? 2 Str D attacks in CC? Actually, each Titan Close Combat Weapon gives +3 attacks in close combat, as well as making all attacks Str D. And it's a primary weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castus Xanthis Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 And useless against non-superheavies. All you can do against them is stomp. I would go with plenty of inferno cannons. Fluffy and flammable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clishay Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 Holy Cow! I totally wasn't imagining my little post to ignite such fevered debate regarding it (though it was some good reading)! Amazing what can happen when you don't get a chance to read your boards for a day or two. I'd like to thank everyone who's chimed in thus far and a special thanks to the Cheat for bringing things back into focus. I've placed the first pic on the PC&A thread. While rough, its giving me an idea of dimensions. I plan on squaring up the edges with some heavy matte stock I have laying around as well as liberal use of green stuff. I'm going to use plasticard to add some depth to it and I've gone out and purchased an Immolator to rob the SoB iconography from (buying the Immolator givces me the added bennefit of a rhino for my soon-to-be-purchased IST squad). Melissa hit the nail on the head when s/he mentioned having multiple penitents powering the device, that was my plan from the start. I liked the idea of a fiery preacher 'directing' it from the front (I think I have just the model to use for it as well), so I added a bit of a stoop for him to stand on (the large upright bit at the top will be where the penitents will be interred). I should be able to scratch build a pulpit for him to stand behind without too much trouble. The penitents themselves will be recessed behind the priest, then outlined with some left over sprues to give each one a sarcophogal-type of feel. I'm still debating about how I'm going to anchor the arms to the body as well as how exactly I'm going to construct the weapons. The feet are a bit of a place holder at the moment, with extra tinker toy dowels put in place to help balance the model. Actually, each Titan Close Combat Weapon gives +3 attacks in close combat, as well as making all attacks Str D. And it's a primary weapon. I had forgotten how many bonus attacks were given with each Titan CCW. While its seriously lacking in ranged firepower, all those attacks will make it pretty interesting to see in close combat, assuming I can get it there. I was a little worried that it would be underpowered before reading Aidoneous' post actually :) And useless against non-superheavies. All you can do against them is stomp. I would go with plenty of inferno cannons. Fluffy and flammable. I would think being able to lay down multiple apocalypse-styled templates would make this thing a little over powered (hence twin-linking the one template). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castus Xanthis Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Those arms are almost useless though, unless you expect to fight tons of other superheavies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Delias Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Add to this... on a flip side... What hasn't been said: This machine could have been built BEFORE the age of Apostasy, or even during it. Due to Dogma, there would be no real reason to destroy a faith engine such as this, prehaps hide them so as not to allow their use by the eccelsiarchy, but if hidden on a world that a convent of SoB take as a base of operations, and then happen to unearth these mighty machines of faith, then there you go. (loose) fluffy answer to why a Penitant titan could exist in 40K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clishay Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 Those arms are almost useless though, unless you expect to fight tons of other superheavies. In my circle of friends I have the following to worry about in apocalypse games: Tyranid Trygon, Hierophant, a barbed and scythed Hierodule, and a freaking Dominatrix (The 'nids player has entirely too much money on his hands...). 6 Baneblades of various flavors. 4 Stompas of various sizes. A brass scorpion and 2 Eldar Titans. That doesn't even get into the fliers :rolleyes: There will be plenty for me to throw this ole' gal at in any given apoc game :) Leaving the armament as it is also allows me to keep with my goals for the project: namely making a freaking huge penitent engine. Add to this... on a flip side... What hasn't been said: This machine could have been built BEFORE the age of Apostasy, or even during it. Due to Dogma, there would be no real reason to destroy a faith engine such as this, prehaps hide them so as not to allow their use by the eccelsiarchy, but if hidden on a world that a convent of SoB take as a base of operations, and then happen to unearth these mighty machines of faith, then there you go. (loose) fluffy answer to why a Penitant titan could exist in 40K. Ah, problem solved ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castus Xanthis Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 You can't assault flyers anyhow. But i do see what you mean. Though you might be better served trading one for an inferno cannon from a warhound or something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 And useless against non-superheavies. All you can do against them is stomp. I would go with plenty of inferno cannons. Fluffy and flammable. sigh... read the rules before posting people. Seriously, it's on page 96 of the apocalypse rulebook. The titan close combat weapon has no such restriction. The Forgeworld trial rules for the Reaver Titan had that restriction, but that's entirely beside the point. Unless any specifics are mentioned, this penitent titan has (assuming 1 base attack) 7 attacks, str D, from 2 primary weapons. Each weapon lost means 3 fewer attacks, and if they're both gone you lose str D. That's it, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 If we were to build a mobile cathedral for the sisters for use in apoc, what affect would it have? Aside for the obvious guns that you would mount... What would it do for the sisters? Would it add to the total faith pool... say 3 or 4 extra faith points or a random number d3 or d6? Would it generate free faith points to be used that turn or lost... again 1 or d3-1? Would it act like an Imagifier... giving an extra d6 to the roll, that can be used or discarded, within a certain range of the item? (i am thinking this would be in addition to a Imag, so roll 4 dice and discard 2) Would it increase the shield of faith, giving the army a 4+ shield in stead of 5+? Would it act like a laud hawler and holy icon... +1 LD to us and -1 ld to everyone else? Would it be "holy ground"... so that deamons would have to approach it through rough terrain (similar to the GK rule)? Not suggesting that all of these rules apply... but what would you expect to see as far as rules for a mobile cathedral? How would you modify that if it were a stationary building / fortress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I'd use the Reaver rules from Forge World, and arm it with two Titan Close Combat Weapons and an Inferno Gun. I'd model it with massive flame throwers on each arm that fire together as the Inferno Gun (S7, AP3, Primary), with a speciel rule that allows the Inferno Gun to fire as a Firestorm Cannon (S6, AP3, Heavy) if one arm is lost. That would fit in quite nicely with the current rule set for Titans, yet still model the Penitant Engine weapons load on a mega-scale. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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