Conor The Great Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I was sitting in my French mock exam and was day dreaming out the window and ineveatabily my thoughts turned to 40K.I was dreaming(this is pretty sad right :huh: )that earth wasnt Terra,and Marines had just landed to claim our world,They were pre-heresy,but i woundered about something........ Not counting the Lorgar,which Primarch joined Horus 1st? Ive read in several sources(dont ask me to quote them)that it was Angron or Mortarion or more recentality Alpharius. So who was the first to openly side with the Warmaster? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child-of-the-Emperor Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 When Horus revealed his treachery i believe Angron, Mortarion and Fulgrim revealed their allegience with him. As i remember Fulgrim originally tried to sway Horus back to the side of the Emperor, but failed and turned himself! mainly due to his daemon weapon. So between Mortarion and Angron? White Dwarf UK Issue 344 i think it is, the one where Angron's Apoc rules were released. The fluff about Angron printed on that page states that he was the first primarch who sided with Horus. (apart from Lorgar i guess) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1897083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Angron was the very first. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1897115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyp100 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Didn't Lorgar turn Horus? XD But it was the Red Angel. (NO, not Sing, they call Ang the Red Angel.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1897305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor The Great Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 But it was the Red Angel. (NO, not Sing, they call Ang the Red Angel.) Well Duh :( Any way yeah i think its either our angel friend or Alpharius(according to Dan Abbnet at any rate) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1897418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child-of-the-Emperor Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 But it was the Red Angel. (NO, not Sing, they call Ang the Red Angel.) Well Duh Any way yeah i think its either our angel friend or Alpharius(according to Dan Abbnet at any rate) "Legion" took place 2 years before the heresy right? so at-the-moment i guess it would be Alpharius Omegon. Although Angron was the first who pubically sided with him, Alpharius didnt reveal himself until the Drop site massacre. Theres a follow-up book to Legion coming out, so that will surely explain ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1897453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor The Great Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 Theres a follow-up book to Legion coming out, so that will surely explain :) Doubt it,it will probobly raise far to may questions and kill who ever reads it :devil: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1897494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Alpharius didn't side with Horus, not really. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1897498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
randian Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Didn't Lorgar turn Horus? XD No, Erebus did. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1897826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 from what i remember, lograr preaches emperor. emperor tells lograr to stop all the preaching nonsense/ lograr is distraught, as he based his life upon the emperor. being emo, lograr falls into a deep crisis of faith and depression... now enters erebus, and introduces lograr to the older gods of colchis...and BOOM! heresy taker root. but the first primarch to publicly side with horus was angron...but big suprise there. wolf lord kieran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1897832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
randian Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 now enters erebus, and introduces lograr to the older gods of colchis...and BOOM! heresy taker root. Kor Phaeron turned Lorgar, not Erebus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1897846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 from what i remember, lograr preaches emperor. emperor tells lograr to stop all the preaching nonsense/lograr is distraught, as he based his life upon the emperor. being emo, lograr falls into a deep crisis of faith and depression... now enters erebus, and introduces lograr to the older gods of colchis...and BOOM! heresy taker root. but the first primarch to publicly side with horus was angron...but big suprise there. wolf lord kieran 2 Reasons to like WLK 1.) His quoting of wise men in his sig 2.) His total impartiality when it comes to traitor legions Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1897847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 now enters erebus, and introduces lograr to the older gods of colchis...and BOOM! heresy taker root. Kor Phaeron turned Lorgar, not Erebus. oops, my bad. mixed the the emos....erebus gets horus hooked (try saying that 5 times fast) @rain: the sad thing is i do realize the world is a mix of greys, but even somethings are too dark for my taste... wolf lord kieran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1897926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Nothing should be too dark for your taste: try everything, you may like it! :D you better hope, for your sake, I am joking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1898918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Disciple Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 from what i remember, lograr preaches emperor. emperor tells lograr to stop all the preaching nonsense/lograr is distraught, as he based his life upon the emperor. being emo, lograr falls into a deep crisis of faith and depression... now enters erebus, and introduces lograr to the older gods of colchis...and BOOM! heresy taker root. but the first primarch to publicly side with horus was angron...but big suprise there. wolf lord kieran 2 Reasons to like WLK 1.) His quoting of wise men in his sig 2.) His total impartiality when it comes to traitor legions I just assumed all the Wolves didnt like us Word Bearers because of the rubber ball jokes and our endless supply of rolled up news papers :P As for the Heresy it goes something like this if I recall. Emperor makes deal with Chaos Gods. Chaos Gods give Emperor power. Emperor welches on deal and creates Primarchs. Chaos Gods make deal with Kor Phaeron. Kor Phaeron has a chat with a peeved Lorgar. Lorgar sells his soul to true gods rather than the False Emperor (Cause now he knows, and knowing is half the battle - sorry for the GI Joe joke :lol: ) Erebus corrupts Horus. Horus corrupts Angron by drowing him blood so to speak. Then Mort and Fulgrim join up. A bit long winded but thats the jist :) Disciple Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1898971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notlage Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Emperor makes deal with Chaos Gods. Chaos Gods give Emperor power. Emperor welches on deal and creates Primarchs.Disciple Wow, if this is true that's a shocker...is this certified fluff (as certified as the 40K universe gets) or is this Chaos propaganda? Where is this from? I thought some shamans decided to have a soul orgy and create some superbeing way back in the day....thus the emperor came to be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1899020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child-of-the-Emperor Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Emperor makes deal with Chaos Gods. Chaos Gods give Emperor power. Emperor welches on deal and creates Primarchs.Disciple Wow, if this is true that's a shocker...is this certified fluff (as certified as the 40K universe gets) or is this Chaos propaganda? Where is this from? I thought some shamans decided to have a soul orgy and create some superbeing way back in the day....thus the emperor came to be. Its obviously not the widely accepted fluff, but there is strands of sources flying around which state such things. It could explain why the Emperor is such a powerful Psyker - The Chaos Gods made him one?! Horus was the real good guy?! or the Gods played the Emperor and Horus off of each other?! Nothing is certain in 40k! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1899164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakiwis Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I've heard of this for a long time and I dont even have the exact fluff for it. Though it's common knowledge in my area that it was the Emperor made a deal with the Chaos Gods and in a way screwed the Chaos Gods. In exchange, the Chaos Gods scattered the Primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1899185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerelius Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 i remember hearing that the chaos gods chose horus becuase he was the most likely to stop the emp from creating the numen who would be able to finally defeat the chaos gods Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1899691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Cyph Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Heh, I thought the Emperor got his power because he was the result of something like a couple of thousand shamans of the old days on earth, whose powers were waning, all committing suicide and being reborn as one almighty being. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1899752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combo Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Heh, I thought the Emperor got his power because he was the result of something like a couple of thousand shamans of the old days on earth, whose powers were waning, all committing suicide and being reborn as one almighty being. this is what I also heard ive got the quote but for the life of me i cant remember the fluff i saved it from here it is: Humanity originally was aware of the Warp and coexisted with it. There were certain gifted individuals who could sense the movements of the warp and use it for many purposes - the tribal healers, shamans, medicine men and other spiritual leaders of early humanity. These people's spirits could even flow through the Warp seamlessly after death and be reborn in new human bodies. However, as humanity prospered, the process of civilization severed its links with the natural forces of the warp and created new ones based upon mankind's own character. The spiritual leaders began to notice the changes as their psychic gifts diminished and their ability to reincarnate was being lost. All the Shamans of earth gathered together in one place to begin the most important debate in human history, in which it was concluded that they were doomed and that without them, the rest of humanity would fall prey to the entities it had created in the warp. They decided that they would take their own lives in order to be reborn into a single, immortal body. Within a year after the resulting mass suicide, a child was born - the boy who would become the Emperor of Mankind. His original name is unknown, although there are some references in Warhammer 40,000 canon that he was born in the 8th millennium BC in central Anatolia. As the Emperor grew older his powers began to manifest themselves and he gradually remembered his thousands of past lives. The Emperor was aware how the extreme sides of the human character were feeding the Chaos Powers, and devoted his immortal life to promote peace and harmony, and to hold back the growth of the Chaos Powers. The Chaos Powers themselves recognized the Emperor as their greatest enemy. For thousands of years the Emperor wandered the earth, watching the human race develop. As the incarnation of the Shamans who were the spiritual guides and guardians of their people, he used his ancient wisdom and influence to help humanity where he could, adopting many guises and guiding his race along a narrow path of survival he alone could see. my musings again: this has merit because you can see the process in other races. Looking at orks wyrdboys only show up in the feral stages, after that they stop showing up, possibly shamans only turn up in primitive human societies then die out, but the shamans realising this did what they did to ensure that humanity would always benefit from their power, through the emperor Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1899813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 from what i remember, lograr preaches emperor. emperor tells lograr to stop all the preaching nonsense/lograr is distraught, as he based his life upon the emperor. being emo, lograr falls into a deep crisis of faith and depression... Basically, Lorgar was a right tool. Given a choice between being an atheist or worshipping evil gods, he chose evil. What. A. Nerk. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1899820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arschbombe Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I'd say he chose worship over understanding. Lorgar's need to worship was fundamental to his character. The emperor should have recognized this. Lorgar found the only outlet for his need that he could. That the outlet was evil was completely secondary. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1899880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child-of-the-Emperor Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Heh, I thought the Emperor got his power because he was the result of something like a couple of thousand shamans of the old days on earth, whose powers were waning, all committing suicide and being reborn as one almighty being. this is what I also heard ive got the quote but for the life of me i cant remember the fluff i saved it from here it is: Humanity originally was aware of the Warp and coexisted with it. There were certain gifted individuals who could sense the movements of the warp and use it for many purposes - the tribal healers, shamans, medicine men and other spiritual leaders of early humanity. These people's spirits could even flow through the Warp seamlessly after death and be reborn in new human bodies. However, as humanity prospered, the process of civilization severed its links with the natural forces of the warp and created new ones based upon mankind's own character. The spiritual leaders began to notice the changes as their psychic gifts diminished and their ability to reincarnate was being lost. All the Shamans of earth gathered together in one place to begin the most important debate in human history, in which it was concluded that they were doomed and that without them, the rest of humanity would fall prey to the entities it had created in the warp. They decided that they would take their own lives in order to be reborn into a single, immortal body. Within a year after the resulting mass suicide, a child was born - the boy who would become the Emperor of Mankind. His original name is unknown, although there are some references in Warhammer 40,000 canon that he was born in the 8th millennium BC in central Anatolia. As the Emperor grew older his powers began to manifest themselves and he gradually remembered his thousands of past lives. The Emperor was aware how the extreme sides of the human character were feeding the Chaos Powers, and devoted his immortal life to promote peace and harmony, and to hold back the growth of the Chaos Powers. The Chaos Powers themselves recognized the Emperor as their greatest enemy. For thousands of years the Emperor wandered the earth, watching the human race develop. As the incarnation of the Shamans who were the spiritual guides and guardians of their people, he used his ancient wisdom and influence to help humanity where he could, adopting many guises and guiding his race along a narrow path of survival he alone could see. my musings again: this has merit because you can see the process in other races. Looking at orks wyrdboys only show up in the feral stages, after that they stop showing up, possibly shamans only turn up in primitive human societies then die out, but the shamans realising this did what they did to ensure that humanity would always benefit from their power, through the emperor Yes but like so much fluff in 40k, it has been contradicted by other fluff! This is the generally accepted fluff, but to my knowledge GW has more recently than the Shaman fluff was released stated that the Emperor's background was simply "Unknown". Aswell as that Some sources claim that the Emperor made a deal with the Chaos Gods, so that he could conquer the Galaxy, and he either tried to screw over the Gods or the Gods realised he was a threat to them, either way this resulted in the Chaos Gods 'stealing' the Primarchs and scattering them across the Galaxy, and tainted Horus and other Primarchs ending up in the Horus Heresy itself, getting revenge on the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1900525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Disciple Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 from what i remember, lograr preaches emperor. emperor tells lograr to stop all the preaching nonsense/lograr is distraught, as he based his life upon the emperor. being emo, lograr falls into a deep crisis of faith and depression... Basically, Lorgar was a right tool. Given a choice between being an atheist or worshipping evil gods, he chose evil. What. A. Nerk. Unfortunatly each of the Primarchs have come to represent something in the Human Psyche. Lorgar has become the need in people to beleive in something. Look at todays religeons. I'll not go into detail as I'm sure I'll break plenty of forum rules id I do. To some people however, without beleif in God(s) life has no meaning. Aetheism is anathema to them. That and it was a really good plot hook, just another time the Emperor groomed his sons to fall ;) Disciple Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/161548-who-turned-1st/#findComment-1900606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.